hOPe for christians who committed adultery?
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Can a Catholic enlighten me about Peter's denial and why He wasn't condemned to hell for that?
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because he was repentant!Originally posted by Icemoon:Can a Catholic enlighten me about Peter's denial and why He wasn't condemned to hell for that?
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actually Alvin. i have no theological backing here but i'll draw a parallel example. we often come across cases where the spouse isn't loyal. yet sometimes, the wife is willing to forgive and take the husband back. if u're repentant, i reckon the same goes for your faith. at the end of it all, it's a sincere and repentant heart that really matters
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if so .. then isn't this the exception clause??Originally posted by ben1xy:because he was repentant!
did you follow my argument with Ironside? do you know what he was talking about? all the semantics about denies and denied is confusing me. -
even the attitude is important.Originally posted by ben1xy:actually Alvin. i have no theological backing here but i'll draw a parallel example. we often come across cases where the spouse isn't loyal. yet sometimes, the wife is willing to forgive and take the husband back. if u're repentant, i reckon the same goes for your faith. at the end of it all, it's a sincere and repentant heart that really matters
one should be repentant and be ready to accept punishment.
which is why in Judaism .. God forgives you only when the person you sinned against has forgiven you. -
actually, we would have to go back to the the original language if we're serious about semantics.Originally posted by Icemoon:if so .. then isn't this the exception clause??
did you follow my argument with Ironside? do you know what he was talking about? all the semantics about denies and denied is confusing me. -
i would think being repentant also equates a willingness to face to music and to be accountable for your actions. all encompassing i guessOriginally posted by Icemoon:even the attitude is important.
one should be repentant and be ready to accept punishment.
which is why in Judaism .. God forgives you only when the person you sinned against has forgiven you. -
hey .. not me. He is the one serious about semantics.Originally posted by ben1xy:actually, we would have to go back to the the original language if we're serious about semantics.
I don't even know he is talking about!! -
Yes.Originally posted by ben1xy:i would think being repentant also equates a willingness to face to music and to be accountable for your actions. all encompassing i guess
But the Christian practice of repentance is not that. Instead it is a confession that you have sinned and full stop.
It is so famous that non believers constantly use this to attack Christianity. -
that is true. That's part of true repentance. And Christians [truly repentant] have done that.Originally posted by ben1xy:i would think being repentant also equates a willingness to face to music and to be accountable for your actions. all encompassing i guess -
I may be wrong but from what I understand, the church emphasizes on forgiveness, not repentance. For example, how many times you heard repentance preached in a charismatic church?
I feel they should be equally emphasized. -
if you are willing to face the music .. rightfully you will feel guilty even when you go heaven.Originally posted by ben1xy:i would think being repentant also equates a willingness to face to music and to be accountable for your actions. all encompassing i guess
Seriously if Hitler were to go heaven (assume he converted) .. he wouldn't have enjoyed it. He would ask himself, where is justice when the Jews I've killed are down there while I'm up here?
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Rain loves basketball. he plays in the varsity team. But he is a headache to the coach because in a game [actual game not practice] he would deliberately intend to miss a shot for some crazy reason. This has been going on for many games and the coach is upset with him.
But one day Rain came to realize his mistake, he admmitted to his folly and would accept what the coach would sanction against him. Rain truly changed his attitude about his playing the game.
Now, he would really aim at the basket and go for the shot. Every shot is done with concentration and focus for the simple reason that he would make the shot.
His coach is now happy because Rain changed his attitude about playing the game. Even though Rain has changed his attitude now he cannot gurranttee that he would make every basket [that would be impossible not even the best players in the world could do that, occasionally he would miss the shot though not intentionally].
But his coach is happy with him because Rain has really changed his attitude about playing the game.
Repentance is a change of attitude. As a result it would change his behavior. No repentance in this side of glory is perfect. God is not calling us to be perfectly sinless in this world. No. he wants us to have a changed attitude about sin that would result in a consistent behavior against sin. -
going to heaven my friend is not about justice. it's aboout mercy and grace.Originally posted by Icemoon:if you are willing to face the music .. rightfully you will feel guilty even when you go heaven.
Seriously if Hitler were to go heaven (assume he converted) .. he wouldn't have enjoyed it. He would ask himself, where is justice when the Jews I've killed are down there while I'm up here? -
where is Ben? -
Hitler might have thought .. I did not show the Jews any mercy neither did God.Originally posted by Ironside:going to heaven my friend is not about justice. it's aboout mercy and grace.
So what could Hitler have done for the people he killed?
Nothing! He couldn't even go down to accompany them. -
writing his Ph.D. dissertation.Originally posted by Ironside:where is Ben?
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shit .. got to work later and I'm still awake.
Ciao! -
and what are you doing Icy?Originally posted by Icemoon:writing his Ph.D. dissertation. -
woah it's almost 4 oclock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Originally posted by Icemoon:shit .. got to work later and I'm still awake.
Ciao! -
I am emulating God in the sense that I'm also a creator.Originally posted by Ironside:and what are you doing Icy? -
oh yah. i forgot this point. Then what do you think of this reasoning. I'm sure you know the rationale behind this line of reasoning. How are you going to fault it?Originally posted by Icemoon:Yes.
But the Christian practice of repentance is not that. Instead it is a confession that you have sinned and full stop.
It is so famous that non believers constantly use this to attack Christianity. -
Originally posted by Ironside:that is true. That's part of true repentance. And Christians [truly repentant] have done that.
what i have been hearing recently seems to reflect a sugar coated gospel msg. but i'm glad that i can still relate to certain Christians on issues like this. -
depends where u go bah. when i was attending WEFC, i thought their teaching was fairly sound. (i was just pissed they did not recognise my baptismOriginally posted by Icemoon:I may be wrong but from what I understand, the church emphasizes on forgiveness, not repentance. For example, how many times you heard repentance preached in a charismatic church?
I feel they should be equally emphasized.
). that aside, i still see the need for consistency for the Protestant faith. It's hard to share your faith when different churches are telling you different things. it gets really confusing for the non believers -
i like this illustration. i've cut and pasted it so that i can use it next timeOriginally posted by Ironside:Rain loves basketball. he plays in the varsity team. But he is a headache to the coach because in a game [actual game not practice] he would deliberately intend to miss a shot for some crazy reason. This has been going on for many games and the coach is upset with him.
But one day Rain came to realize his mistake, he admmitted to his folly and would accept what the coach would sanction against him. Rain truly changed his attitude about his playing the game.
Now, he would really aim at the basket and go for the shot. Every shot is done with concentration and focus for the simple reason that he would make the shot.
His coach is now happy because Rain changed his attitude about playing the game. Even though Rain has changed his attitude now he cannot gurranttee that he would make every basket [that would be impossible not even the best players in the world could do that, occasionally he would miss the shot though not intentionally].
But his coach is happy with him because Rain has really changed his attitude about playing the game.
Repentance is a change of attitude. As a result it would change his behavior. No repentance in this side of glory is perfect. God is not calling us to be perfectly sinless in this world. No. he wants us to have a changed attitude about sin that would result in a consistent behavior against sin.