whats wrong with the "rock" concert kind of worship?
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Wah! And i thought i'm the evil one.Originally posted by Icemoon:Haiyah .. as to who is that mad man .. go and read your bible lah!
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Woo .. you could put it better than me. The operative word is "desire". The word has a thick Jewish flavour and woe to me for forgetting it!Originally posted by Rock^Star:i rather there be 500 followers who desire the voice of god than 500,000 idiots who only want to learn thru music, celebrate gatherings the "pop" wayb etc.
Religion should be pure, that's why we need leaders who can trod that path. Being a pastor of a church and taking near $10,000 per month, holding other businesses and driving flashy cars, are not my ideas of "pure".
Anyone from Catholic JC here? Who knows how much Bro. P takes a month? I know for sure Catholic priests can only take a few hundred a month to serve basic needs. Salary is not an issue at all for these Fathers, they only want to serve God.
To me, that's what religion shd be.
Catholic priests take around 800 per month. But I'm quite sure the house and car is provided. As to maintenance of the car and house, I'm not too sure. -
I'm not better than u when utilising words for sure. We all learnOriginally posted by Icemoon:Woo .. you could put it better than me. The operative word is "desire". The word has a thick Jewish flavour and woe to me for forgetting it!
Catholic priests take around 800 per month. But I'm quite sure the house and car is provided. As to maintenance of the car and house, I'm not too sure. .
Residence would be provided in the church and the car must be an old 2nd hand car.
I got a feeling the principal of CJC does not take home more than a $1,000/mth. Anyone can cfm this? -
so saying that anybody who is rich cannot be a pure believer?? Believing in Yeshua is not about religion. It is about a personal relationship with Yahweh.
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Ultimately, there is only one creator of the universe and off all living creatures great and small, the Lord God made them all.
God made the good and evil brings out the good.
Christianity is but a faith.
God. Does he care how you worship him?
I think he prefers if you guys just abide by his rules and make peace instead of war.
Peace on earth and mercy mild, God and sinners reconcile
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that is the question, do christians abide by His rules?Originally posted by PhilGoodNurse:Ultimately, there is only one creator of the universe and off all living creatures great and small, the Lord God made them all.
God made the good and evil brings out the good.
Christianity is but a faith.
God. Does he care how you worship him?
I think he prefers if you guys just abide by his rules and make peace instead of war.
Peace on earth and mercy mild, God and sinners reconcile -
Yes .. we can all learn from one another.Originally posted by Rock^Star:I'm not better than u when utilising words for sure. We all learn .
Residence would be provided in the church and the car must be an old 2nd hand car.
I got a feeling the principal of CJC does not take home more than a $1,000/mth. Anyone can cfm this?
Hey hey .. they live in bungalow ok. Technically it is landed property?
Hmm .. is the principal of CJC a civil servant? -
haiya .. don't need to get so worked up.Originally posted by breytonhartge:so saying that anybody who is rich cannot be a pure believer?? Believing in Yeshua is not about religion. It is about a personal relationship with Yahweh.
IMHO .. the richer people are more likely to get detracted from God. It is not uncommon for rich people to have too many commitments until they have less time for God. Furthermore it is harder to practise Christian values because the higher up you are, the more responsibilities you have and the more dark politics you will face.
Take for example, Bill Gates. Many portray him as evil businessman. But we shouldn't forget he is accountable to his staff and shareholders too. So I argue it is easier to practise Christian values if you are Mother Theresa than if you are Bill Gates. So the only good things Bill Gates have done is to donate generously to charity.
Take another example - our foreign minister Yeo. He is Catholic no doubt, and he is rich (just by looking at his paycheck .. I heard it is quite a lot). Surprisingly he is one of the first to advocate for a casino in Singapore, even before LKY!! But is this really surprising? As a minister, he has to look after the nation's interest first.
The words of King Solomon sums it up - vanity vanity .. all is vanity!
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If the fun and modren worship takes away people from the real purpose of worship and people forget for what it is they worship, then it defeats the purpose. And very often, people get so caught up in this rock worship that they forget what worship is really all about.Originally posted by jaydunkfull:whats wrong with the type of worship as done in chc? i used to think that as long as you are worshipping with your heart, any form of music should be the same, whether it is rock or pop but it seems that there is a lot of disapproval over the way worship is done in chc. theres also the link that rock music is associated with the devil? is that true? and i saw comments like this over at youtube "The Hillsong Ministry are trinitarians. They believe in 3 persons in one god. The way they worship is not the christian worship. Look at the way they worship, purely rock. They don't know who is the real Jesus. They rock and worshipping the devil. If you have the discerning spirit, you will not be bless the way they worship" and "just because they are rockin out, dat doesnt mean they arent praising God. cant you have fun praising God?? if you dont have fun while you are praising, you dont really feel anything. we should think prasing God should be fun and holy, like how hillsongs does it" the way they worship at chc is definitely more appealing to the younger generation. so what wrong about this kind of fun and modern way of worshipping? anyone please enlighten me thanks! -
nothing.Originally posted by jaydunkfull:whats wrong with the type of worship as done in chc? -
Originally posted by SumOne:If the fun and modren worship takes away people from the real purpose of worship and people forget for what it is they worship, then it defeats the purpose. And very often, people get so caught up in this rock worship that they forget what worship is really all about. you've pretty much summed up the possible problems which this genre of music will/might cause.
Cheers -
it's a very pertinent point actually. i was talking to some youths. what they mentioned was something like "they want a place to play music and have an audience" which imo misses the whole purpose. it's more for selfish reason, pursuing interesting and self glorification. not that all musicians are like that of course.Originally posted by M©+square: you've pretty much summed up the possible problems which this genre of music will/might cause.
Cheers -
Yes, we are not writing off rock genre kind of worship.Originally posted by ben1xy:it's a very pertinent point actually. i was talking to some youths. what they mentioned was something like "they want a place to play music and have an audience" which imo misses the whole purpose. it's more for selfish reason, pursuing interesting and self glorification. not that all musicians are like that of course.
However, it pose to harness more subtle issues of 'godliness/purity in worship' which might be more tricky to tackle.
Nonetheless, there are people who are convicted to play 'United LIVE' or Planet Shakers style.
How congregation will accept and take it from there is another issue altogether.
Youth culture we call it.
I've mentioned before. I don't quite look up to this youth culture. -
The rich can be believers. God does not look at your money. Anyway, u missed my point totally.Originally posted by breytonhartge:so saying that anybody who is rich cannot be a pure believer?? Believing in Yeshua is not about religion. It is about a personal relationship with Yahweh. -
He's a Brother of the De La Salle order. Heard before?Originally posted by Icemoon:Yes .. we can all learn from one another.
Hey hey .. they live in bungalow ok. Technically it is landed property?
Hmm .. is the principal of CJC a civil servant? -
Never heard b4.Originally posted by Rock^Star:He's a Brother of the De La Salle order. Heard before?
I only heard b4 the Jesuit order.
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When u pass by S'pore Art Museum (old St. Joseph's Institution), do u see a statue in front? That's St. John Baptist De La Salle. He's a french Brother who founded the De La Salle order in the 16th century. This order is now all over the world, present in the schools that they have set up.Originally posted by Icemoon:Never heard b4.
I only heard b4 the Jesuit order.
In S'pore, it's SJI, St Pat's, St Michael's Pri, St Anthony's Boys, St Stephen Pri and De La Salle Pri. The reason these Brothers are called Brothers so that children and teens may relate to them easier and turn to them should they need spiritual and mental guidance, just like an older brother.
To cut it short, I have been educated for many many years in this environment and I strongly believe that when one works for God, money should never ever be an issue.
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How many years?Originally posted by Rock^Star:When u pass by S'pore Art Museum (old St. Joseph's Institution), do u see a statue in front? That's St. John Baptist De La Salle. He's a french Brother who founded the De La Salle order in the 16th century. This order is now all over the world, present in the schools that they have set up.
In S'pore, it's SJI, St Pat's, St Michael's Pri, St Anthony's Boys, St Stephen Pri and De La Salle Pri. The reason these Brothers are called Brothers so that children and teens may relate to them easier and turn to them should they need spiritual and mental guidance, just like an older brother.
To cut it short, I have been educated for many many years in this environment and I strongly believe that when one works for God, money should never ever be an issue. 
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franciscan order hear b4?Originally posted by Icemoon:Never heard b4.
I only heard b4 the Jesuit order. -
ten, u also have an experience to share?Originally posted by M©+square:How many years? -
What's that smiley for?Originally posted by M©+square:How many years? -
yes.Originally posted by ben1xy:franciscan order hear b4?
carmelite, benedictine, redemptorists etc -
Personally for me, a definite yes, because I have seen and felt too much in my life for coincidences to be mere and the existance of God to be a fascade, even though I am still very young.Originally posted by Icemoon:I think the ultimate litmus test is this ..
if the bible turns out to be wrong, will you still believe in God?
I seriously don't think you can push someone to fully embrace the concept of Christianity. A person has to find it within himself or herself. What friends or relatives can do is to create the environment and influence that would help aid the discovery. Only then will the finding have meaning, because it came from within you and you alone realise the significance of what it means to believe in God.
An alternative view to what is preached in the Bible:
The Kingdom of God is Within You by Leo Tolstoy
http://www.kingdomnow.org/withinyou.html (Full e-book in English, but can be complicated)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kingdom_of_God_is_Within_You (Write-up on the book and its influence on Gandhi and Martin Luther King, Jr
I honestly believe that it is not so much the details of a person believing in God which is important, but more of how much the person chooses to believe in God. -
yes .. from reading church history.Originally posted by ben1xy:franciscan order hear b4? -
Because with that question alone. It seemed more of a challenge than a question.Originally posted by Rock^Star:What's that smiley for?
So a smiley will make it friendly.