whats wrong with the "rock" concert kind of worship?
-
whats wrong with the type of worship as done in chc? i used to think that as long as you are worshipping with your heart, any form of music should be the same, whether it is rock or pop but it seems that there is a lot of disapproval over the way worship is done in chc. theres also the link that rock music is associated with the devil? is that true? and i saw comments like this over at youtube "The Hillsong Ministry are trinitarians. They believe in 3 persons in one god. The way they worship is not the christian worship. Look at the way they worship, purely rock. They don't know who is the real Jesus. They rock and worshipping the devil. If you have the discerning spirit, you will not be bless the way they worship" and "just because they are rockin out, dat doesnt mean they arent praising God. cant you have fun praising God?? if you dont have fun while you are praising, you dont really feel anything. we should think prasing God should be fun and holy, like how hillsongs does it" the way they worship at chc is definitely more appealing to the younger generation. so what wrong about this kind of fun and modern way of worshipping? anyone please enlighten me thanks!
-
u mean christians dun believe in 3 Persons, 1 God?
-
Originally posted by jaydunkfull:if you dont have fun while you are praising, you dont really feel anything. we should think prasing God should be fun and holy, like how hillsongs does it" the way they worship at chc is definitely more appealing to the younger generation.
Hmm .. fun and holy .. interesting combination. -
I think you need to sit back and think about the real issues.Originally posted by jaydunkfull:the way they worship at chc is definitely more appealing to the younger generation. so what wrong about this kind of fun and modern way of worshipping? anyone please enlighten me thanks!
Ask yourself:
1. the purpose of worship
2. the reason why "olden" way of worship does not appeal to youngsters.
The point about 2 is funny .. because everyone is reading the same bible and this "olden" book doesn't sound fun and holy to us anyway. -
is that the trinity theory?Originally posted by NT2:u mean christians dun believe in 3 Persons, 1 God? -
shouldnt it be ok to have fun and be holy? you mean to be holy, you have to be solemn and serious?Originally posted by Icemoon:
Hmm .. fun and holy .. interesting combination.
-
the Christian doctrine on God is that He is a Triune God.Originally posted by jaydunkfull:is that the trinity theory? -
Once again we should ask ourselves - what does it mean to be holy?Originally posted by jaydunkfull:shouldnt it be ok to have fun and be holy? you mean to be holy, you have to be solemn and serious?
PS: this is a real question which I haven't thought of yet. -
a holy person is a God-centred person.Originally posted by Icemoon:Once again we should ask ourselves - what does it mean to be holy?
PS: this is a real question which I haven't thought of yet. -
where did you get that idea?Originally posted by davidche:a holy person is a God-centred person. -
a holy person is a person who live in godliness/Christ-likness.
-
personally, I believe (based on my christian understanding) that there is no holy person, only a Holy God.
Praise and worship must be from the heart (right attitude and understanding), and not based on the type of music/atmosphere/surrounding.
*** this are just my personal view, others may not agree with me. -
*trival: who dance and worship before God like a mad man, and his worship was acceptable before God?
(check the OT) -
let me tell you why i left the church why i left christianity,
the following are my personal observations , analysis and beleive,
after 2 years in the church and some other church i went for visiting
i realised that the "rock" concert is nothing but a distraction, its to keep the young ones entertained, to get them to come back.
every time the light dims, and the synth starts to kick in, the pastor will say the holy spirit is here, its nothing but well perffected stage embience.
the pastors are always so "fired up" when preaching, "on fire" as they put it,
this puts me off, i heard some pastors go as far as to wage war against the demons that are hindu Gods, ironically the pastor was indian.
i also observed that many christians are very disliked by many people,
christians say they are persecuted because of their faith and that it is fortold in the bible, oh they are suffering for their faith, they make it sound saintly.
i think they got the word persecution wrong, i think the muslims are lagi more persectued,
another reason why christians are disliked IN MY OWN OPINION, is because of the fundementals of their teaching of how to relate to others,
i have read up about the islamic concept of seeking forgiveness,
first a muslim have to seek forgiveness from the person they have sin against, before they are fit to seek forgiveness from Allah,
this in MY OPINION is very good, because it puts them personally responsible.
Christian teaching on the other hand, just have to seek God's forgiveness and that is about it. the absolves them from alot of personal acountability.
why i left the church, because simply i saw how a mess the protestant church is,
I SAY CHURCH HERE NOT THE RELIGION, all religions are of divine ideals, but its the people who screw things up.
every church is a schizm, has its own dogma, its own opinion on the bible.
and they like to bitch about each other.
and see the mega churches like CHC, NCC lighthouse evangelism,
LOOK at how much money they spent on the physical building, is it what they call humble? is it necesarry, or is it luxury?
it looks to me like solomon's temple.
end of the day its a business to these alpha pastors, its a number game.
finally i left the church because it never gave me peace, not the worship not the place not the sermons, but one thing they taught me is that if the holy spirit is there u will find peace.
i guess i found the holy spirit in a thai temple, i found a peace i never had before.
my life experienced positive changes , and i am convinced, by their creed and actions.
peace
these are just my own personal feelings analysis and observations, and i hope it will shed some light on your question -
davidche should know.Originally posted by vince69:*trival: who dance and worship before God like a mad man, and his worship was acceptable before God?
(check the OT)
-
Issit?Originally posted by vince69:personally, I believe (based on my christian understanding) that there is no holy person, only a Holy God.
Be Holy
13 Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy." -
Islam meh?Originally posted by supremecobra:i have read up about the islamic concept of seeking forgiveness,
first a muslim have to seek forgiveness from the person they have sin against, before they are fit to seek forgiveness from Allah,
I thought this is a Jewish concept?i guess i found the holy spirit in a thai temple, i found a peace i never had before.
wah!
my life experienced positive changes , and i am convinced, by their creed and actions. -
first; *kick icemoon, quote scripture, didn't say from whereOriginally posted by Icemoon:Be Holy
13 Therefore, with minds that are alert and fully sober, set your hope on the grace to be brought to you when Jesus Christ is revealed at his coming. 14 As obedient children, do not conform to the evil desires you had when you lived in ignorance. 15 But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; 16 for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."
ok, for the rest, Icemoon is quoting 1Peter1:13-16.
let me add expand the verses abit
verse 15:
1) he (God) who called you(us) is holy
2) so be holy in all you do
Amplified Bible
"15But as the One Who called you is holy, you yourselves also be holy in all your conduct and manner of living."
"16For it is written, You shall be holy, for I am holy."
there are actually differing type understanding here,
1) that, like what Icemoon is implying, God had declared us holy
2) that, this becoming holy, is a future thing
3) that which is also how I understand it, no one is holy/righteous apart from Christ, and that what we have is actually Christ's righteousness and holiness.
*like I said, others may disagree with me, I am just sharing my personal conviction. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:Originally posted by supremecobra:
i have read up about the islamic concept of seeking forgiveness,
first a muslim have to seek forgiveness from the person they have sin against, before they are fit to seek forgiveness from Allah,
Islam meh?
I thought this is a Jewish concept? Rolling EyesMatthew 5:23-24
sounds similar?
23"Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother; then come and offer your gift. -
rock concert always give ppl the impression that the event is not serious, is for enjoyment and fun only.
So if the worship conducts like some rock concert, it's quite inappropriate.
Just my opinion. -
yeah...esp when i hear ppl come out fr worship hall and said 'wha...today's worship is good man!! so anointed'
in my heart i am thinking...worship is not meant for u to enjoy anyway. -
Honestly, there is nothing wrong with the CHC kind of worship. It's just that many of them 'play-act' to show enthuasism and vibrancy. They are encouraged and 'forced' to worship in such a manner by their fellow cell leaders and cell members. You have to be regarded to be with the 'in-thing' within the church cell group clique or you might counselled by your cell group leader why you don't show enthuasism in worship. In order to move up to be a better christian in their context, you must exhibit that kind of joy and excitement when worshipping or else you would be thought of as not strong in your love and faith in God.
-
-
Rock and worship are 2 parellel lines which willnever see eye to eye, which will never meet.
Integrating rock into worshipping is crap. CHC lavish's church is tantament to the ignorance of what worshipping & holiness is all about.
Look at catholic churches, they are v. solemn. They (Catholics) listen to what the priest is talking about, they sing hymns, they read the gospel, they have their holy communion, etc.. not in a wild and 'fun' manner.
How ridiculous!
-
In other words, am I right to say, its not the mode of music that we are really concerns about, but rather the attitude of these "worshipers" and their understanding of what is the real meaning of worship that are the real issues here.Originally posted by NT2:yeah...esp when i hear ppl come out fr worship hall and said 'wha...today's worship is good man!! so anointed'
in my heart i am thinking...worship is not meant for u to enjoy anyway.