Question about creation
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So can i know if God created evil for the sake of free will(good), is the result still good?
If God created suffering for the sake of joy, is the result good?
And lastly, What is your stand on Beliiving in christ.
Shld we believe first then find out more about the doctrines and some basic knowledges about Chritianity or the opposite? -
Arminism!Originally posted by davidche:And lastly, What is your stand on Beliiving in christ.
Shld we believe first then find out more about the doctrines and some basic knowledges about Chritianity or the opposite?
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God did not create evil my friend.Originally posted by davidche:So can i know if God created evil for the sake of free will(good), is the result still good?
If God created suffering for the sake of joy, is the result good?
And lastly, What is your stand on Beliiving in christ.
Shld we believe first then find out more about the doctrines and some basic knowledges about Chritianity or the opposite?
We are to trust in the saving work of the Lord Jesus Christ first then grow in the knowledge and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. We have to recieve the saving grace of Christ first, then after that we can grow into the image of Him who saved us.
P.S. i don't understand where Arminianism enters into your post. -
God is the creator of everything or at least, he claims so. Therefore, evil and sufferings must be created by him too. Make sense?
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Your reply like a bit off from what he is asking. His emphasis is on the knowledge. Your one is more abstract.Originally posted by Ironside:We are to trust in the saving work of the Lord Jesus Christ first then grow in the knowledge and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. We have to recieve the saving grace of Christ first, then after that we can grow into the image of Him who saved us.
P.S. i don't understand where Arminianism enters into your post.
It reminds me of Arminianism because of the overemphasis on the work of man. -
God did not create evil. He created the world and claimed that everything is good (Gen 1). God has given his creation (man and angels) free will. Lucifer chose to be proud, and result in being cast away from being a Seraphim and fell. Adam chose to disobey God, and result in being cast away from Eden. Being evil is choosing to turn away from God.Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:God is the creator of everything or at least, he claims so. Therefore, evil and sufferings must be created by him too. Make sense?
In short, God was, is, and is always good. Evil is absence of God. -
OK 1st question answeredOriginally posted by munyc:God did not create evil. He created the world and claimed that everything is good (Gen 1). God has given his creation (man and angels) free will. Lucifer chose to be proud, and result in being cast away from being a Seraphim and fell. Adam chose to disobey God, and result in being cast away from Eden. Being evil is choosing to turn away from God.
In short, God was, is, and is always good. Evil is absence of God. -
I understand what you say. To make your explaination more practical, it is believe then find out the facts, like creation?Originally posted by Ironside:God did not create evil my friend.
We are to trust in the saving work of the Lord Jesus Christ first then grow in the knowledge and grace of the Lord Jesus Christ. We have to recieve the saving grace of Christ first, then after that we can grow into the image of Him who saved us.
P.S. i don't understand where Arminianism enters into your post. -
His second sentance answers.Originally posted by Icemoon:Your reply like a bit off from what he is asking. His emphasis is on the knowledge. Your one is more abstract.
It reminds me of Arminianism because of the overemphasis on the work of man. -
Oh and by the way, suffering is one of the side effects of sin (a free will to disobey and turn away from God). Remember Scripture said that the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23a)? Suffering is just a lesser evil of death.
Just because human sinned through Adam, God has laid down his plan right from the beginning to send His only Son, Jesus, to die for all of us. And that is why we believe Jesus is our Lord and Saviour.
Just take it this way. God, in His infinite Grace and Glory, created human in His image and likeness. Humans are supposed to be in the bosom of God, inheriting all the Grace from God. With all and fullness of Grace, human was supposed to be sinless. However, when Adam disobeyed God, Adam deliberately cut off himself from God's Grace. With absence of Grace, sin enters to mankind.
So, God did not create suffering. Human (Adam) chose to sin, hence suffering follows. God also did not create death. Because of disobedience of Adam, the punishment is death. God warned us (read Gen 2:17 and check it out)!! -
i dont think death wasnt created as you hv said.Originally posted by munyc:Oh and by the way, suffering is one of the side effects of sin (a free will to disobey and turn away from God). Remember Scripture said that the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23a)? Suffering is just a lesser evil of death.
Just because human sinned through Adam, God has laid down his plan right from the beginning to send His only Son, Jesus, to die for all of us. And that is why we believe Jesus is our Lord and Saviour.
Just take it this way. God, in His infinite Grace and Glory, created human in His image and likeness. Humans are supposed to be in the bosom of God, inheriting all the Grace from God. With all and fullness of Grace, human was supposed to be sinless. However, when Adam disobeyed God, Adam deliberately cut off himself from God's Grace. With absence of Grace, sin enters to mankind.
So, God did not create suffering. Human (Adam) chose to sin, hence suffering follows. God also did not create death. Because of disobedience of Adam, the punishment is death. God warned us (read Gen 2:17 and check it out)!!
If Death wasnt created, then how do we die?
How does this die word even exist in our dictionary?
Suffering was created for the existence of Joy. -
Death is not something. Death is absence of something (that something is Life).
From nothing, God created Life through His very spoken Word. Adam rejected Life by disobeying God. The Tree of Life is just a symbol of God's existence. Cut off from the Tree of Life means cut off from God's Grace and Glory. Adam turned away from God, so Life is cut away from Adam.
Same analogy of Light and Darkness. Darkness is absence of Light, not the negative of Light. Light was created to overcome Darkness, while Darkness is never created. Same way, Life is created to overcome Death, while Death is never created. -
God didnt create evil. Satan did.Originally posted by davidche:So can i know if God created evil for the sake of free will(good), is the result still good?
If God created suffering for the sake of joy, is the result good?
And lastly, What is your stand on Beliiving in christ.
Shld we believe first then find out more about the doctrines and some basic knowledges about Chritianity or the opposite?
God didnt create suffering. Satan caused it.
Either way. Can believe by faith first & then learn the facts later or be convinced somewhat first & then believe later. Blessed is he who believes without seeing first. -
I suggest christians in EH to agree on somethings b4 explaining different principals which contradict together.Originally posted by Raptured:God didnt create evil. Satan did.
God didnt create suffering. Satan caused it.
Either way. Can believe by faith first & then learn the facts later or be convinced somewhat first & then believe later. Blessed is he who believes without seeing first. -
God didn't create evil. it happened after adam sinned against God, bringing in about the first sin, and followed by death and corruption of good things that God made
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Since every christian claims that God created everything and everything includes sin, then God created sin lah...Originally posted by dumbdumb!:God didn't create evil. it happened after adam sinned against God, bringing in about the first sin, and followed by death and corruption of good things that God made -
If god creates everything including sufferings and sins, he is probably a sadist. For good purposes, what is so beneficial when we see our friends ard us suffering? Will you bear to see those ppl like your friends and family suffering like having terminal cancer and dying soon? Most likely no. Then, how can an kind and caring god bear to see all that? The only explaination is he is a sadist.
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ignore Nus rubbish post
Anyway, my view is God created sin and evil for the sake of free will.
IF one wld say that evil is the absence of goodness, then evil must exist to let it be the absense of sth.
In other words, God allowed evil and sin. -
what the hellOriginally posted by davidche:ignore Nus rubbish post
Anyway, my view is God created sin and evil for the sake of free will.
IF one wld say that evil is the absence of goodness, then evil must exist to let it be the absense of sth.
In other words, God allowed evil and sin.
that is good as implying god is the evil one -
Im interested to hear your stand on this.Originally posted by laurence82:what the hell
that is good as implying god is the evil one -
I bet with you most christians will disagree with u on this.Originally posted by davidche:ignore Nus rubbish post
Anyway, my view is God created sin and evil for the sake of free will.
IF one wld say that evil is the absence of goodness, then evil must exist to let it be the absense of sth.
In other words, God allowed evil and sin. -
I have read of an analogy where good and evil is compared to heat and cold. Cold is the default. Things get warmer only when heat is transferred upon it. So as mentioned by someone else earlier, the argument is that evil, like cold, is the default. It is not a thing and therefore not created. Creations are argued by some to be things to change this default, like bringing warm to something cold.
My personal thought on this argument is that if good is to be compared to the warmth of the sun, then should it be taken in moderation as in its analogy? Too much heat is certainly not an ideal situation. Should "good" and god's love be therefore taken with moderations too? For example, life is normally associated with good. God created life to fill a world that was by default without it. But without the end of life, ie. death, the world would be an overpopulated place. Certainly the argument goes that since we cannot die if the world is without death, we can forget about starvation, which is generally associated with overpopulation. But one day, the population of Earth would grow till the extend where we would have no space to move isn't it? -
That argument can't stand cos god just have to create food and more planets to accomodate the growing population. According to christianity, god is omnipotent so he will not have to worry.Originally posted by wisefool83:I have read of an analogy where good and evil is compared to heat and cold. Cold is the default. Things get warmer only when heat is transferred upon it. So as mentioned by someone else earlier, the argument is that evil, like cold, is the default. It is not a thing and therefore not created. Creations are argued by some to be things to change this default, like bringing warm to something cold.
My personal thought on this argument is that if good is to be compared to the warmth of the sun, then should it be taken in moderation as in its analogy? Too much heat is certainly not an ideal situation. Should "good" and god's love be therefore taken with moderations too? For example, life is normally associated with good. God created life to fill a world that was by default without it. But without the end of life, ie. death, the world would be an overpopulated place. Certainly the argument goes that since we cannot die if the world is without death, we can forget about starvation, which is generally associated with overpopulation. But one day, the population of Earth would grow till the extend where we would have no space to move isn't it? -
you sound like a taoistOriginally posted by wisefool83:I have read of an analogy where good and evil is compared to heat and cold. Cold is the default. Things get warmer only when heat is transferred upon it. So as mentioned by someone else earlier, the argument is that evil, like cold, is the default. It is not a thing and therefore not created. Creations are argued by some to be things to change this default, like bringing warm to something cold.
My personal thought on this argument is that if good is to be compared to the warmth of the sun, then should it be taken in moderation as in its analogy? Too much heat is certainly not an ideal situation. Should "good" and god's love be therefore taken with moderations too? For example, life is normally associated with good. God created life to fill a world that was by default without it. But without the end of life, ie. death, the world would be an overpopulated place. Certainly the argument goes that since we cannot die if the world is without death, we can forget about starvation, which is generally associated with overpopulation. But one day, the population of Earth would grow till the extend where we would have no space to move isn't it?
haha, anyway, if Christians say that evil is the absense of good, escaping the fact tat God created evil, Then it wld still mean tat God allowed evil. Thus,... he is a sadist,( if Nus wld put it) -
Why can't heat be the default? Why can't good be the default? A baby when born is born good according even to Confucius. Like a fresh bun from hot oven it is hot in the beginning but leave it in the polluted cold air it becomes cold & dirty.Originally posted by wisefool83:I have read of an analogy where good and evil is compared to heat and cold. Cold is the default. Things get warmer only when heat is transferred upon it. So as mentioned by someone else earlier, the argument is that evil, like cold, is the default. It is not a thing and therefore not created. Creations are argued by some to be things to change this default, like bringing warm to something cold.
My personal thought on this argument is that if good is to be compared to the warmth of the sun, then should it be taken in moderation as in its analogy? Too much heat is certainly not an ideal situation. Should "good" and god's love be therefore taken with moderations too? For example, life is normally associated with good. God created life to fill a world that was by default without it. But without the end of life, ie. death, the world would be an overpopulated place. Certainly the argument goes that since we cannot die if the world is without death, we can forget about starvation, which is generally associated with overpopulation. But one day, the population of Earth would grow till the extend where we would have no space to move isn't it?
Why should there be moderation of something good? Do u know lukewarm coffee tastes horrible? Jesus also says He would rather some Christian be hot or cold but not lukewarm or He will spit him out of his mouth. Wont u rather drink hot coffee or cold coffee but not lukewarm coffee?
As even others here say, God can create more planets for us if overpopulated. God can even create an infinite universe for all of us to stay in with unlimited food, water, resources etc. Bcos He is God!