wad caused the 'breakaway'?
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u can also watch the show Luther. I enjoyed that movie a lot
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if im not wrong... luther broke off coz he wasnt happy with the stuff going on (corruption i guess) but there was nothing condeming Mother Mary...
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sth interesting to share...watch how 2 biblical equations combine tgr n form an equation tat protestants believe to be unbiblical...
1) mary=mother of jesus
2) jesus=God
substitute equation 2 into equation 1:
therefore...mary=mother of God
i encountered catholics who told me tis...protestants acknowledge the 1st 2 equations as scriptural but they reject the 3rd one...yet how come when u combine 2 biblical equations, u get 1 tat is unbiblical??? hmm... -
Mary was just the mother for the human Jesus .. is it so hard to understand?Originally posted by despondent:sth interesting to share...watch how 2 biblical equations combine tgr n form an equation tat protestants believe to be unbiblical...
1) mary=mother of jesus
2) jesus=God
substitute equation 2 into equation 1:
therefore...mary=mother of God
i encountered catholics who told me tis...protestants acknowledge the 1st 2 equations as scriptural but they reject the 3rd one...yet how come when u combine 2 biblical equations, u get 1 tat is unbiblical??? hmm...
Read the nicene creed which is affirmed by the Catholics:We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man. -
Ahem, we call this heresy 'Nestorianism'Originally posted by Icemoon:Mary was just the mother for the human Jesus .. is it so hard to understand?
Orthodox Catholic theologians recognized that NestoriusÂ’s theory would fracture Christ into two separate persons (one human and one divine, joined in a sort of loose unity), only one of whom was in her womb. The Church reacted in 431 with the Council of Ephesus, defining that Mary can be properly referred to as the Mother of God, not in the sense that she is older than God or the source of God, but in the sense that the person she carried in her womb was, in fact, God incarnate ("in the flesh").
http://www.catholic.com/library/great_heresies.asp
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1994/9409hotm.asp -
you want to play with words you bear the consequences.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Ahem, we call this heresy 'Nestorianism'
Orthodox Catholic theologians recognized that NestoriusÂ’s theory would fracture Christ into two separate persons (one human and one divine, joined in a sort of loose unity), only one of whom was in her womb. The Church reacted in 431 with the Council of Ephesus, defining that Mary can be properly referred to as the Mother of God, not in the sense that she is older than God or the source of God, but in the sense that the person she carried in her womb was, in fact, God incarnate ("in the flesh").
http://www.catholic.com/library/great_heresies.asp
http://www.catholic.com/thisrock/1994/9409hotm.asp
so tell us .. did Mary carry the eternal Logos in her womb?
In the beginning was the Word .. the Word was with God and the Word was God. -
If Jesus is eternally begotten of the Father .. then how should we describe the Marian part?
temporally begotten of the Virgin Mary?
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furthermore .. God incarnate is just a fanciful term for God in human flesh.
so i am right to say that Mary carries the human Jesus in her womb.
for Mary surely didn't carry the Logos in her womb. -
icemoon...my pt is tis...such is the great mystery of the trinity tat u cun use equations to explain it...mathematically speaking, 2 correct equations cun form a wrong equation after combining tgr...
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aiya .. equations weren't invented when they formulated the Trinity?Originally posted by despondent:icemoon...my pt is tis...such is the great mystery of the trinity tat u cun use equations to explain it...mathematically speaking, 2 correct equations cun form a wrong equation after combining tgr... -
Then explain when did 'Jesus in the womb' become God?Originally posted by Icemoon:furthermore .. God incarnate is just a fanciful term for God in human flesh.
so i am right to say that Mary carries the human Jesus in her womb.
for Mary surely didn't carry the Logos in her womb. -
He was already God. He didn't become God.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Then explain when did 'Jesus in the womb' become God?
He was eternally begotten of the Father .. how could He become God in the womb of a mortal? -
hmm... by your logicOriginally posted by despondent:sth interesting to share...watch how 2 biblical equations combine tgr n form an equation tat protestants believe to be unbiblical...
1) mary=mother of jesus
2) jesus=God
substitute equation 2 into equation 1:
therefore...mary=mother of God
i encountered catholics who told me tis...protestants acknowledge the 1st 2 equations as scriptural but they reject the 3rd one...yet how come when u combine 2 biblical equations, u get 1 tat is unbiblical??? hmm...
Matthew 1:16
and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Joseph = Husband of Mary
=> Joseph = Husband of the Mother of God
=> Joseph = father or step-father of God ????? does this make sense? doubt so right?
how about James
Galatians 1:19
I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord's brother
James = The Lord's brother,
=> James = God's brother? ???? does this make sense? doubt so right?
hence I can only conclude that its not wise to use mathematical method as such to explain relationships.
cheers. -
So when Jesus was in the womb of the Virgin Mary, was He God or Not?Originally posted by Icemoon:He was already God. He didn't become God.
He was eternally begotten of the Father .. how could He become God in the womb of a mortal? -
Christianity is one big paradox. If we cannot explain the Trinity, surely there will be other mysterious issues we have to deal with.Originally posted by vince69:hmm... by your logic
Matthew 1:16
and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
Joseph = Husband of Mary
=> Joseph = Husband of the Mother of God
=> Joseph = father or step-father of God ????? does this make sense? doubt so right?
how about James
Galatians 1:19
I saw none of the other apostles—only James, the Lord's brother
James = The Lord's brother,
=> James = God's brother? ???? does this make sense? doubt so right?
hence I can only conclude that its not wise to use mathematical method as such to explain relationships.
cheers.
Afterall, for an innocent man to sacrifice His life for guilty ones, that is not logical. (In the sense of the world) -
This I agree with you, hence my purpose is to demostrate that its not correct to try to define these "mystries" in a manner like a mathematical model.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Christianity is one big paradox. If we cannot explain the Trinity, surely there will be other mysterious issues we have to deal with.
Afterall, for an innocent man to sacrifice His life for guilty ones, that is not logical. (In the sense of the world) -
Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:
He was God incarnate.
So [b]when Jesus was in the womb of the Virgin Mary, was He God or Not?
[/b]
He couldn't be God because He clearly wasn't omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscent. -
There have been many scapegoats in history. Some were not even willing.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Afterall, for an innocent man to sacrifice His life for guilty ones, that is not logical. (In the sense of the world) -
KELLY CLARKSON CAUSES THE 'BREAKAWAY'
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Originally posted by Icemoon:
I have to emphasize that this is not any heresy.
He was God [b]incarnate.
He couldn't be God because He clearly wasn't omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscent.[/b]
Those heresies arise because they created a false dichotomy. Either He is God or He is Man.
Why didn't they use the term God incarnate leh? -
the term used was, "Son of Man" to describe Him being fully man.Originally posted by Icemoon:I have to emphasize that this is not any heresy.
Those heresies arise because they created a false dichotomy. Either He is God or He is Man.
Why didn't they use the term God incarnate leh? -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
ok, this is getting weird.
He was God [b]incarnate.
He couldn't be God because He clearly wasn't omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscent.[/b]
If we agree that 'Logos' refers to Christ himself,
if we agree that 'God incarnate' refers to Christ taking on human flesh,
how is it possible that Christ in the womb is not God?
Not God the Father, maybe you mean? -
But this term will only cause more confusion:Originally posted by vince69:the term used was, "Son of Man" to describe Him being fully man.The Prophet Ezechiel is addressed by God as "son of man" more than ninety times, e.g. "Son of man, stand upon thy feet, and I will speak to thee" (Ezekiel 2:1). This usage is confined to Ezechiel except one passage in Daniel, where Gabriel said: "Understand, O son of man, for in the time of the end the vision shall be fulfilled" (Daniel 8:17).
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14144a.htm -
Not only was He not God the Father, He was not also God the Holy Spirit.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:ok, this is getting weird.
If we agree that 'Logos' refers to Christ himself,
if we agree that 'God incarnate' refers to Christ taking on human flesh,
how is it possible that Christ in the womb is not God?
Not God the Father, maybe you mean?
And, if you agree with me, the Jesus before and after the resurrection also different.
See .. so many differences!
Ask yourself .. what if Herold managed to kill the baby Jesus? So God is dead? -
But Jesus is also God the Son what.Originally posted by Icemoon:Not only was He not God the Father, He was not also God the Holy Spirit.
And, if you agree with me, the Jesus before and after the resurrection also different.
See .. so many differences!
Ask yourself .. what if Herold managed to kill the baby Jesus? So God is dead?
Jesus before and after the resurrection is still God. After resurrection He is in a glorified state.