Do Not Feed the Trolls
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Yesh, and we see enough examples of them, regardless of faiths, and to think some people said its finding dirt!Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:There have been enough scandals local or overseas to suggest that some ppl are making use of followers' blind faith to make great wealth and possess many properties. Even when the scandal has been exposed and the culprit has been charged and sentenced, his followers are still silly enough to support him. This just shows that education level has nothing to do with one person's intelligence.
I think best is, dont go church or places of worship if one is not concerned with how they are run. -
Not all churches are like City Harvest. Not all Christians go to City harvest. Many churches are not like that, you just don't know it yet. Not all muslims are Islamic Terrorists right?Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:U say other religions are false but to me, all these christian stuffs are also false too. It just something to generate money for the church, to make ppl in the top management rich with money. Dun believe me, go and find out how much money the city harvest church has. It's more like a club for rich ppl. Only buddhism is true by logical reasonings and self-experiencing.
Not all Christians have the same Christian self-experiences, neither do all buddhists have the same religous experience either.
By stating that City Harvest is rich, you are stating the obvious and something many people already know. What you don't realise but should know is that not all churches are like City Harvest. -
Lots of very grand and majestic newly built temples in Singapore as well. Sorry I don't know the names.Originally posted by davidche:im not taking sides.
Most of the churches i see in singapore are all quite new and renovated.
Newton life,
St andrews(got a new prayer lounge)
Lutherun redeemers
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Another 2 in queenstown -
Must accept fact mah, not all and in fact, most churches are not rich.Originally posted by Icemoon:wah .. can associate with rich pple also dun want? -
It's really not right of you to assume based on so little.Originally posted by laurence82:Got a lot lor
Especially when one of my NCC friends told me how she saw people take stakes of $50 notes in put inside the donations box.
Piangz
1) Not all churches are as rich as you think.
2) $50 may not seem so much to you after you've been working for a while.
3) That happening in one church may not mean it happens in all churches.
4) Your friend may have exaggerated that story especially if that was the only time he or she managed to see someone putting the money into the offering bag (by right when you make your offering, it shouldn't be seen by others). I'm not saying your friend is a liar, but what your friend had seen may have been the oddity rather than the norm. Besides, it's not right to see what others put into the offering bag. -
Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:There have been enough scandals local or overseas to suggest that some ppl are making use of followers' blind faith to make great wealth and possess many properties. Even when the scandal has been exposed and the culprit has been charged and sentenced, his followers are still silly enough to support him. This just shows that education level has nothing to do with one person's intelligence.
Glad to see how some can be objective in this discussion, rather than to direct all misgivings against a particular group of people.Originally posted by laurence82:Yesh, and we see enough examples of them, regardless of faiths, and to think some people said its finding dirt!
I think best is, dont go church or places of worship if one is not concerned with how they are run. -
Yes, you are good example of that.Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:There have been enough scandals local or overseas to suggest that some ppl are making use of followers' blind faith to make great wealth and possess many properties. Even when the scandal has been exposed and the culprit has been charged and sentenced, his followers are still silly enough to support him. This just shows that education level has nothing to do with one person's intelligence. -
Not all churches are like City Harvest. Not all Christians go to City harvest. Many churches are not like that, you just don't know it yet. Not all muslims are Islamic Terrorists right?
U don't need to be in city harvest in order to tilth. Let me ask u, do u tilth ? Do u think most christians tilth ? I can say tat most muslim take halal food. I can say tat most buddhist believe in karma. Because tis is part of their law. Is tilthing part of christian tradition ? It is.
Not all Christians have the same Christian self-experiences, neither do all buddhists have the same religous experience either.
By stating that City Harvest is rich, you are stating the obvious and something many people already know. What you don't realise but should know is that not all churches are like City Harvest.It's really not right of you to assume based on so little.
1) Not rich doesn't mean their members did not give money. It may simply be because they have little members
1) Not all churches are as rich as you think.
2) $50 may not seem so much to you after you've been working for a while.
3) That happening in one church may not mean it happens in all churches.
4) Your friend may have exaggerated that story especially if that was the only time he or she managed to see someone putting the money into the offering bag (by right when you make your offering, it shouldn't be seen by others). I'm not saying your friend is a liar, but what your friend had seen may have been the oddity rather than the norm. Besides, it's not right to see what others put into the offering bag.
2) $50 seems to be a lot for donations every week
3) Witnessing such incidents in one church may means it happens in a lot of churches
4) Do u doubt the story ? I too heard of story about people donating $50+ dollars into the bag -
Back to the topic, if the trolls are bringing up some rebuttals based on common sense logic, I suggest you don't classify them as trolls.
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There's a difference between trolls and people who are discussing the topic. I don't treat people negatively just because they have a different opinion or just because they're non-Christians.Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Back to the topic, if the trolls are bringing up some rebuttals based on common sense logic, I suggest you don't classify them as trolls. -
???? I'm quite surprised at such weird replies by you actually, but anyway.Originally posted by stupidissmart:1) Not rich doesn't mean their members did not give money. It may simply be because they have little members
2) $50 seems to be a lot for donations every week
3) Witnessing such incidents in one church may means it happens in a lot of churches
4) Do u doubt the story ? I too heard of story about people donating $50+ dollars into the bag
I sense you have a problem with tithing, then you cannot expect an organisation to function on sunlight and fresh air. But tithing is excessive and members are forced to tithe excessively it's a different thing. If you're against churches because of the act of tithing itself then I got nothing to say.
$50 may seem a lot to you but this is really depdendant on person. If you're a working adult that draws $2500 a mth, $50 a week is $200 over 4 wks. Some months have 5 weekends so maybe it's $250. Which basically is 10% of the salary. It may seem a lot to a student but to a working adult the same $50 holds a different value.
Also, some people are born rich, students who have no qualms spending $250 for the weekend, so what is $50? This is dependant on individual. But I don't believe in giving beyond your means. And I certainly don't agree with giving all your money to the church and expect God to give you back the money 10 fold. That's not how it works.
And it's wrong to assume excessive tithing happens in many churches just because you witness it in one church. Simply wrong. If you can't see this simple logic then too bad.
Putting aside the idea whether $50 is a lot or not, I'm not saying excessive tithing does not occur. But to say it happens in all churches because of an isolated example is plain wrong.
I myself do not agree with excessive tithing, but opposing the process/act of tithing itself is a different thing altogether.
Hope the non-Christians can seperate between the two. Buddhists make donations to the temples they worship at as well and any organisation needs funds to run and operate. But when the funds are used lavishly and extravagently then it's a different thing. Remember the Gold rimmed taps? -
Just to make it clear, you seem to have something very against tilthing itself. I can't say anything there if you think the act of tilthing itself is immoral. But it's pretty funny of you to think that way.Originally posted by stupidissmart:U don't need to be in city harvest in order to tilth. Let me ask u, do u tilth ? Do u think most christians tilth ? I can say tat most muslim take halal food. I can say tat most buddhist believe in karma. Because tis is part of their law. Is tilthing part of christian tradition ? It is.
Ask around, not all Christians believe in the need for having lavish church compounds or being excessive.
The way you're going about it, it's more like you're saying tilthing itself is wrong rather than the lavish use of church funds.
You have a very wrong concept where tilthing is concerned. -
Tithing itself is not wrong, but how the funds itself are used are a different thing altogether. I hope the non-Christians viewing this thread can understand that, and not assume that tithing is merely a process to collect money for the church to be extravagent.
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a) I never make assumptions that ALL churches are rich, reread my postOriginally posted by SumOne:It's really not right of you to assume based on so little.
1) Not all churches are as rich as you think.
2) $50 may not seem so much to you after you've been working for a while.
3) That happening in one church may not mean it happens in all churches.
4) Your friend may have exaggerated that story especially if that was the only time he or she managed to see someone putting the money into the offering bag (by right when you make your offering, it shouldn't be seen by others). I'm not saying your friend is a liar, but what your friend had seen may have been the oddity rather than the norm. Besides, it's not right to see what others put into the offering bag.
b) stacks of 50 dollars, again, reread my posts
c) she used one example, and she is a staunch Christians, and we were discussing about encounters she sees in her church, again not as a measure of all churches, reread point A if you like -
Not easy to see for newbiesOriginally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Back to the topic, if the trolls are bringing up some rebuttals based on common sense logic, I suggest you don't classify them as trolls.
A few giveaways include circular arguments, where its a more of a clever twisting of words
Avoidance is another giveaway, especially when you pointed out some erroneous points or expose some clever twisting of points again
Flaming topics, mostly aim at someone but no one in particular, got few, you can catch it?
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Ah Lau, what do you expect me to catch? 1+1=2?Originally posted by laurence82:Not easy to see for newbies
A few giveaways include circular arguments, where its a more of a clever twisting of words
Avoidance is another giveaway, especially when you pointed out some erroneous points or expose some clever twisting of points again
Flaming topics, mostly aim at someone but no one in particular, got few, you can catch it? 
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Walau, u dont expect me to hold your hands to the topics right?Originally posted by Herzog_Zwei:Ah Lau, what do you expect me to catch? 1+1=2? 
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My apologies if I got it wrong. But thanks for clarifying your own points for me.Originally posted by laurence82:a) I never make assumptions that ALL churches are rich, reread my post
Thank for clarifying your position that tithing is not excessive at all churches. I know some people think otherwise.b) stacks of 50 dollars, again, reread my posts[/quote]
Might have missed out the wording of "stake/stacks". Still, like you said, it doesn't mean it happens in all churches.[quote]c) she used one example, and she is a staunch Christians, and we were discussing about encounters she sees in her church, again not as a measure of all churches, reread point A if you like -
Ultimately it's up to people to decide how and who they want to give their money and for what reasons. There are people who give to a particular organisation just to be cool be in with the hip factor. It's not about whether the money/funds are being used properly or for good means.Originally posted by NUS_Superst@r:There have been enough scandals local or overseas to suggest that some ppl are making use of followers' blind faith to make great wealth and possess many properties. Even when the scandal has been exposed and the culprit has been charged and sentenced, his followers are still silly enough to support him. This just shows that education level has nothing to do with one person's intelligence.
Just like in pop culture, fans know their money spent on albums/concerts/merchandise goes to making their favourite superstar rich and famous. But they give anyway, because their intention wasn't for the money to go for some greater good or anything.
Having said that, please stop with your petty,lame generalisation of all Christians and churches and understand that not all churches are the same. I myself have told you that more than once, I just hope you don't conveniently choose to ignore that fact.
And by talking about how religous leaders take advantage of the blind faith of followers, are you referring to the scandal about 5 years ago in Thailand where senior Buddhist monks used offerings to buy luxurious cars and to visit BARS?
Here are some sites for your viewing. Of course if you fiercely want to stick to your prejudices, then you'd ignore them altogether.
In this link, the writer talks about scandals involving not just buddhist monks but other faiths as well.
http://www.seapabkk.org/newdesign/fellowshipsdetail.php?No=57In recent months, the international media have reported on sexual abuses committed by some Roman Catholic priests in the United States and elsewhere in the world, including the Philippines. But other faiths seem to be undergoing crises as well. Since the mid-1990s, scandals involving monks have rocked Thailand, where Buddhism is an integral part of the local culture. Far from following in the footsteps of Buddha, some of the countryÂ’s saffron-robed holy men have been found to have committed sins that range from embezzlement to sex with prostitutes to even murder.
And another link.
http://www.abc.net.au/pm/stories/s216493.htmCOMPERE: Phone sex, real sex, dressing up in military uniforms, rape, murder and being murdered. These are just some of the scandals that Thailand's Buddhist Monks have been embroiled in recently.
South East Asia correspondent, Geoff Thompson, reports.
I'm posting these links not to discredit buddhism and I definitely do not have anything against buddhists. Many of my close friends are buddhists.
I just want to clarify that scandals are not restricted to one particular faith, and as a NUS graduate to be, your view should not be so skewed and myopic. -
I think all of you are idiots.
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Originally posted by SumOne:
Scandals involving religion can happen in any country to any faith.
I just want to clarify that scandals are not restricted to one particular faith, and as a NUS graduate to be, your view should not be so skewed and myopic.[/b] -
STFU!!! -
Make me...Originally posted by :STFU!!!