Is lying right to save a person's life?
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There can be many variations. For example, can Christians kill an enemy soldier to save his own life? Can you lie to a would-be murderer to save another's life?
The answer is pretty obvious. It seems that we are allowed to commit a 'smaller' sin to achieve a 'greater good'. However, there is no such thing as a 'smaller' sin in Christianity. Deceit and murder both warrants the same punishment. Also, I said 'seems' because I am not too sure. The concept of 'Greater Good' may not even exist in the bible, or even the concept of choosing 'lesser of the two evils', though it certainly sounds reasonable to us.
I would like to know the biblical view of this (best is provide some verses) i.e. what is the main principle that can be used to answer such similar questions, when one is faced with two sinful acts and he has to choose one, and in the process break one of the commandments? -
let me propose to u the Catholic view although u didnt ask for it
Catholic Morality centers around the concept of conscience. Specifically a formed and informed conscience and Catholics have a duty to form this conscience.
Basically, not everything is dichotomous in that it's right or wrong. there are too many grey areas and that's where the concept of conscience comes into play -
not only that is failure to act, or rather failure to save a person also a sin?? is allowing harm to befall some one a sin?Originally posted by SocialOutcast:There can be many variations. For example, can Christians kill an enemy soldier to save his own life? Can you lie to a would-be murderer to save another's life?
The answer is pretty obvious. It seems that we are allowed to commit a 'smaller' sin to achieve a 'greater good'. However, there is no such thing as a 'smaller' sin in Christianity. Deceit and murder both warrants the same punishment. Also, I said 'seems' because I am not too sure. The concept of 'Greater Good' may not even exist in the bible, or even the concept of choosing 'lesser of the two evils', though it certainly sounds reasonable to us.
I would like to know the biblical view of this (best is provide some verses) i.e. what is the main principle that can be used to answer such similar questions, when one is faced with two sinful acts and he has to choose one, and in the process break one of the commandments? -
Ah... Moral Theology...
Lying is not right, but we have something called the mental reservation.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10195b.htm -
Intent.Originally posted by SocialOutcast:There can be many variations. For example, can Christians kill an enemy soldier to save his own life? Can you lie to a would-be murderer to save another's life?
The answer is pretty obvious. It seems that we are allowed to commit a 'smaller' sin to achieve a 'greater good'. However, there is no such thing as a 'smaller' sin in Christianity. Deceit and murder both warrants the same punishment. Also, I said 'seems' because I am not too sure. The concept of 'Greater Good' may not even exist in the bible, or even the concept of choosing 'lesser of the two evils', though it certainly sounds reasonable to us.
I would like to know the biblical view of this (best is provide some verses) i.e. what is the main principle that can be used to answer such similar questions, when one is faced with two sinful acts and he has to choose one, and in the process break one of the commandments? -
FOOO!!!!!~Originally posted by SocialOutcast:There can be many variations. For example, can Christians kill an enemy soldier to save his own life? Can you lie to a would-be murderer to save another's life?
The answer is pretty obvious. It seems that we are allowed to commit a 'smaller' sin to achieve a 'greater good'. However, there is no such thing as a 'smaller' sin in Christianity. Deceit and murder both warrants the same punishment. Also, I said 'seems' because I am not too sure. The concept of 'Greater Good' may not even exist in the bible, or even the concept of choosing 'lesser of the two evils', though it certainly sounds reasonable to us.
I would like to know the biblical view of this (best is provide some verses) i.e. what is the main principle that can be used to answer such similar questions, when one is faced with two sinful acts and he has to choose one, and in the process break one of the commandments?
DP~! -
Mens rea (sp?)Originally posted by M©+square:Intent.
any legal students here? -
I would have no problems with lying or killing if it had to come to it to do the right thing.
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Of course its right. The same thing applies to violence as well. Its absolutely necessary when the situation calls for it.
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I would prefer to see that, the decision that one made after giving thought to all possible situation. As for a true convert; i believe none will WANT/desire to lie.Originally posted by Icemoon:Mens rea (sp?)
any legal students here?
The intent and motive of lying therefore, is important.
However, i have to address that, the act of lying will threaten the foundation of a true believer.
Risky take. -
the question is...
will the lying and killing going to help in the situation?
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at one of the RCIA talks, the speaker gave this real life example:Originally posted by vince69:the question is...
will the lying and killing going to help in the situation?
a Woman was taken prison, she wanted to see her family (she had 3 kids and a husband), the only way out for her was to get pregnant. so she slept with one of the guards.
then the priest asked us... 'Is she committing adultery?'
like that how? -
Lets tweak the question
Is lying a sin?
Then if it is, would you lie for god?
'lie' could be replaced by any of the seven deadly sins, or 'murder', 'rape' etc etc
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true case in sg??Originally posted by ben1xy:at one of the RCIA talks, the speaker gave this real life example:
a Woman was taken prison, she wanted to see her family (she had 3 kids and a husband), the only way out for her was to get pregnant. so she slept with one of the guards.
then the priest asked us... 'Is she committing adultery?'
like that how?
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not in s'pore. it was in one of the Asian countries thoughOriginally posted by monoslayer:true case in sg??
but he guaranteed that it was true -
ok, this is my personal view on all these.Originally posted by ben1xy:at one of the RCIA talks, the speaker gave this real life example:
a Woman was taken prison, she wanted to see her family (she had 3 kids and a husband), the only way out for her was to get pregnant. so she slept with one of the guards.
then the priest asked us... 'Is she committing adultery?'
like that how?
From a christian's perspective, what are God's commandments regarding this.
Do not bare false witness (lying), do not commit adultery ...etc
In all these situation, when we tried to justified doing these things (dispite God saying not to do it), by saying its for some greater good, what are we really trying to say? will good comes out from anything that is bad? can the ends really justify the means?
personally, I don't think so.
I believe in doing the right thing, using the right means, and instead of trusting in my own craftiness, I rather put my trust in the goodness and faithfulness of God, depends on Him to defend the weak and the innocence.
There was a case study many years back, during my uni days (on human behaviour), the question is, will you lie to protect a friend, what if his enemies treaten to kill you if you do not tell them where he is?
will you tell them he is hiding in house A (the truth)? or house B (a lie)?
the question is, will lying going to help him? what if without your knowledge, he had moved to hid in house B? then your lying would actually ended up betraying him instead.
God bless... -
well, the point if she can't come out, she's supposed to carry her cross, not find a way to escape it. afterall you are in jail to pay for your crimes.Originally posted by ben1xy:at one of the RCIA talks, the speaker gave this real life example:
a Woman was taken prison, she wanted to see her family (she had 3 kids and a husband), the only way out for her was to get pregnant. so she slept with one of the guards.
then the priest asked us... 'Is she committing adultery?'
like that how?
the woman only thought of seeing her family, but she probably did not think that her husband wanted her to sleep with another man or bear another man's child.
of course we always try to find ways to escape.. but we have to take into account other circumstances. maybe she was forced into it by the guards or something? -
u want to know wad the priest said abt this event?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:well, the point if she can't come out, she's supposed to carry her cross, not find a way to escape it. afterall you are in jail to pay for your crimes.
the woman only thought of seeing her family, but she probably did not think that her husband wanted her to sleep with another man or bear another man's child.
of course we always try to find ways to escape.. but we have to take into account other circumstances. maybe she was forced into it by the guards or something? -
just say it can?Originally posted by ben1xy:u want to know wad the priest said abt this event?
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hahaa, it boils down to your formed and informed conscienceOriginally posted by vince69:just say it can?
that's wad he said
then u could hear 1 big 'haaaiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz' in the class -
Encik ben, saya tak faham. Boleh kata lagi?Originally posted by ben1xy:hahaa, it boils down to your formed and informed conscience
that's wad he said
then u could hear 1 big 'haaaiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz' in the class -
it's every Catholic's responsibility to form their conscience. so whether it's right or wrong is very subjective lohOriginally posted by laurence82:Encik ben, saya tak faham. Boleh kata lagi?
but yeap, we muz do our best to form our conscience through scriptural knowledge, prayer, comtemplation, etc -
Your lecturer is wise to give that answer.Originally posted by ben1xy:hahaa, it boils down to your formed and informed conscience
that's wad he said
then u could hear 1 big 'haaaiiiizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz' in the class -
Personally i believe in such cases where a life is at stake, i would tink that God is gracious enough to forgive us of that "white lie".
I mean common God also gave us brains wat. Do we have to be so honest until "pao toh" our aquaintace to death ah?
Its like for eg. sombody wants to rape me & i say i have aids, std etc when in actual fact i do not have. I lie to protect my well-being and not be stupid right?
In such instances i strongly believe Grace abounds! -
it is wrong to lie, whether its for a good purpose or bad purpose. we should do wad god will do. so in a war, we shouldnt kill the enemy in gods view. but from the worldly view, we should kill them as a self defence. its up to u. i will kill the enemies.Originally posted by SocialOutcast:There can be many variations. For example, can Christians kill an enemy soldier to save his own life? Can you lie to a would-be murderer to save another's life?
The answer is pretty obvious. It seems that we are allowed to commit a 'smaller' sin to achieve a 'greater good'. However, there is no such thing as a 'smaller' sin in Christianity. Deceit and murder both warrants the same punishment. Also, I said 'seems' because I am not too sure. The concept of 'Greater Good' may not even exist in the bible, or even the concept of choosing 'lesser of the two evils', though it certainly sounds reasonable to us.
I would like to know the biblical view of this (best is provide some verses) i.e. what is the main principle that can be used to answer such similar questions, when one is faced with two sinful acts and he has to choose one, and in the process break one of the commandments?