Jesus was such a sinless Man & yet...
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Satan fighting an impossible cause 1) Sin makes someone stupid. In all of God's creatures Satan knew perfectly well that he cannot usurp God's place in heaven. Sin made him stupid, he tried to do a power grab in heaven. Even now he is still trying to be God [captial G]. An impossble cause.Originally posted by Icemoon:Your argument is non convincing.
You actually believe Satan is so stupid to fight for an impossible cause?
Furthermore .. it is quite clear from Scripture Jesus didnt know when the End will come - only the Father in heaven knows. Hence, I believe you have commited some sort of the fallacy of equivocation.
If He cannot be tempted .. is He still 100% Man? Can you identify with such a person?
2) He was speaking here as a Man.
As a Man, He does not know everything. He has to grow in wisdom:
Lu 2:52 And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.
As God He knows everything:
Col 2:2 that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and of Christ,
3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
This is the mystery of the HYPOSTATIC UNION.
yES, HE IS STILL ONE HUNDRED PERCENT MAN. MAN WHO HAS NO SINFUL NATURE. PERFECT MAN HE IS.
P.S. it's okay with me if it's non-convincing. my cause is that the truth will only come out. Christians [those who are non-liberals] have always held to the impeccability of Christ.
This has been the consensus of all true Christians [scholars who studied their Bibles really] all throughout centuries.
We are studying no ordinary Man here. This is the Son of God. Be prepared for truths that seem to defy logic. God is infinitely higher than us. Trinity, we cannot fully comprehend but we accept it.
Salvation by substitution we cannot comprehend but it's there in the Bible. we accept it.
The Union of Christ' deity and humanity we cannot comprehend. But it's there we accept it.
The glory of God in the Bible [that brilliant dazzling light--the shikinah glory] we cannot comprehend but we accept it.
etc. -
I think this understanding is very trivial. satan should know the following:Originally posted by Ironside:Satan fighting an impossible cause 1) Sin makes someone stupid. In all of God's creatures Satan knew perfectly well that he cannot usurp God's place in heaven. Sin made him stupid, he tried to do a power grab in heaven. Even now he is still trying to be God [captial G]. An impossble cause.
1. he is not god. he is not omnipotent, not omniscent and probably not omnipresent.
2. he cannot usurp God's place in heaven. I don't think he can kill god.
furthermore if you believe the serpent was satan .. the serpent certainly isn't stupid! the serpent mixes half truths and half lies! is this the mark of a stupid person? the serpent is crafty .. a crafty person certainly isn't stupid!
so to play the game, he has to have some triumph cards.
I believe his triumph card no 1 is .. *drum rolls* .. free will.
don't belittle satan. he is still king on earth as long as he hasn't meet his fate according to Revelations.
once again, don't belittle satan. he can bua long long go to the heavenly court and challenge God.
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sometime clever people do stupid things alsoOriginally posted by Icemoon:I think this understanding is very trivial. satan should know the following:
1. he is not god. he is not omnipotent, not omniscent and probably not omnipresent.
2. he cannot usurp God's place in heaven. I don't think he can kill god.
furthermore if you believe the serpent was satan .. the serpent certainly isn't stupid! the serpent mixes half truths and half lies! is this the mark of a stupid person? the serpent is crafty .. a crafty person certainly isn't stupid!
so to play the game, he has to have some triumph cards.
I believe his triumph card no 1 is .. *drum rolls* .. free will.
don't belittle satan. he is still king on earth as long as he hasn't meet his fate according to Revelations.
once again, don't belittle satan. he can bua long long go to the heavenly court and challenge God. 
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Originally posted by Ironside:
You win lor .. the theory can never be falsified logically. Christians are clever .. they say the resurrection is historical and can be falsified .. but they diam diam don't dare to proclaim their theology is not falsifiable.
2) He was speaking here as a Man.
As a Man, He does not know everything. He has to grow in wisdom:
Lu 2:52 And [b]Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.
As God He knows everything:
Col 2:2 that their hearts may be encouraged, being knit together in love, and attaining to all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge of the mystery of God, both of the Father and of Christ,
3 in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.
This is the mystery of the HYPOSTATIC UNION.
yES, HE IS STILL ONE HUNDRED PERCENT MAN. MAN WHO HAS NO SINFUL NATURE. PERFECT MAN HE IS.[/b]
Take theodicy for example. Some xtians can even give "suffering is good for you" as a reason! Or "the non believers deserve to die in the tsunami". But when there is prosperity (like in singapore) .. "God blesses our nation! God answers our prayers!"
See the pattern?
So whatever Jesus cannot do .. you say this is attibute of man. Whatever Jesus can do (like God), you say this is his godly attribute.
Winner. -
then satan is hopeless.Originally posted by vince69:sometime clever people do stupid things also
instead of one temptation .. there were three temptations.
Luckily he never came out with 40 temptations (to match with no. of days in desert). -
time to join the church iceyOriginally posted by Icemoon:You win lor .. the theory can never be falsified logically. Christians are clever .. they say the resurrection is historical and can be falsified .. but they diam diam don't dare to proclaim their theology is not falsifiable.
Take theodicy for example. Some xtians can even give "suffering is good for you" as a reason! Or "the non believers deserve to die in the tsunami". But when there is prosperity (like in singapore) .. "God blesses our nation! God answers our prayers!"
See the pattern?
So whatever Jesus cannot do .. you say this is attibute of man. Whatever Jesus can do (like God), you say this is his godly attribute.
Winner.
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I know .. I reserve quite harsh rebuttals for you 'cos your explanation are often good enought to sting my heart.Originally posted by Ironside:P.S. it's okay with me if it's non-convincing. my cause is that the truth will only come out. Christians [those who are non-liberals] have always held to the impeccability of Christ.
This has been the consensus of all true Christians [scholars who studied their Bibles really] all throughout centuries.
We are studying no ordinary Man here. This is the Son of God. Be prepared for truths that seem to defy logic. God is infinitely higher than us. Trinity, we cannot fully comprehend but we accept it.
Salvation by substitution we cannot comprehend but it's there in the Bible. we accept it.
The Union of Christ' deity and humanity we cannot comprehend. But it's there we accept it.
The glory of God in the Bible [that brilliant dazzling light--the shikinah glory] we cannot comprehend but we accept it.
etc.
I think the phrase "cannot comprehend" spells the end of apologetics in these areas. -
I went for Mass today.Originally posted by ben1xy:time to join the church icey
New Missal book .. page 206.
Today is 19th Sunday? -
Pls become a Christian soon and spare the rest of us the agonyOriginally posted by Icemoon:I went for Mass today.
New Missal book .. page 206.
Today is 19th Sunday? -
icey.. based on christian's doctrine, you are very correct, satan is hopless, with hope that is...Originally posted by Icemoon:then satan is hopeless.
instead of one temptation .. there were three temptations.
Luckily he never came out with 40 temptations (to match with no. of days in desert). -
satan couldn't see the end of time .. so he dunno his fate until it was spelt out in revelations.Originally posted by vince69:icey.. based on christian's doctrine, you are very correct, satan is hopless, with hope that is...
Maybe now he taking measures to reverse the prophecy liao.
Probably satan rebelled because of instant gratification. It is just like sex .. under seduction you just do it. Just like human, angels also tempted by power, money and girls. -
YESOriginally posted by Icemoon:I went for Mass today.
New Missal book .. page 206.
Today is 19th Sunday?
i did reading today!
Kings!!
Elishah
hahaa
where did u go to?? -
To become a Christian is by the grace of God.Originally posted by laurence82:Pls become a Christian soon and spare the rest of us the agony -
So go go goOriginally posted by Icemoon:To become a Christian is by the grace of God. -
I nearly forgotten the reading .. luckily you reminded me.Originally posted by ben1xy:YES
i did reading today!
Kings!!
Elishah
hahaa
where did u go to??
I think the reading was about Elisha wanting to die? -
yup. but the Angel kept refusing to let himOriginally posted by Icemoon:I nearly forgotten the reading .. luckily you reminded me.
I think the reading was about Elisha wanting to die?
hahaa -
I tot you not in Singapore liao.Originally posted by ben1xy:YES
i did reading today!
Kings!!
Elishah
hahaa
where did u go to??
Woot .. don't tell me Catholics all over the world uses the same book, only the language different.
Today they sang a song. It starts with "Holy .. Holy". I think they sang it before the Eucharist.
Also at the beginning of the book, they read an expanded version of the Apostle Creed. But after this is the actual apostle creed. I was thinking - what for?
There was one part the lady sang behind the lectern. It was a psalm. But she changed the lyrics .. really artistic license.
Mine was low Mass. No incense used. -
yup. readings are all the same everywhere! even in Aussie. i met one of SGmacross's friend who studies in sydney and recruited her for bible stufyOriginally posted by Icemoon:I tot you not in Singapore liao.
Woot .. don't tell me Catholics all over the world uses the same book, only the language different.
Today they sang a song. It starts with "Holy .. Holy". I think they sang it before the Eucharist.
Also at the beginning of the book, they read an expanded version of the Apostle Creed. But after this is the actual apostle creed. I was thinking - what for?
There was one part the lady sang behind the lectern. It was a psalm. But she changed the lyrics .. really artistic license.
Mine was low Mass. No incense used.
the song goes
holy holy holy Lord. God of Power and might. heaven and Earth are full of your Glory. Hosanna in the highest. Blessed is he, who comes in the name of the Lord. Hosanna in the Highest.
U're referring to the Nicene Creed is it?
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son].
With the Father and the Son
he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. AMEN
Durin Mass we will sometimes sing the Psalms. This week is taste and see the goodness of the Lord right? -
Today I tried to find the publisher, copyright etc. info on the new Missal book .. but nothing leh!Originally posted by ben1xy:yup. readings are all the same everywhere! even in Aussie. i met one of SGmacross's friend who studies in sydney and recruited her for bible stufy
the song goes
holy holy holy Lord. God of Power and might. heaven and Earth are full of your Glory. Hosanna in the highest. Blessed is he, who comes in the name of the Lord. Hosanna in the Highest.
U're referring to the Nicene Creed is it?
We believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father [and the Son].
With the Father and the Son
he is worshipped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets.
We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church.
We acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
We look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. AMEN
Durin Mass we will sometimes sing the Psalms. This week is taste and see the goodness of the Lord right?
SGMacross's friend .. she chio or not?
Yah, that is the song. The opening very nice.
Nicence Creed?! Shit .. I couldn't recognize it. But I think the book never mention it is Nicence Creed .. darn
The Pslam was sang by a lady. She sang very well (much better than the priest who sang some other song ). I forgotten the content but I remember need to repeat certain parts. And funny symbols on left hand margin, I think it was <1. Haha.
The prayers very funny. They include the names of many Catholic saints (like Barthamelow) in brackets but never read. LOL .. print for what.
Today I solved the mystery of the offerings. Earlier I said no offerings during Mass, but I was corrected. Actually what happened was they don't pass the bag around like the Protestants (which I am more familiar with), they attached a long stick to the bag so the helpers walked around and people just drop their money.
Mass ends promptly on my watch. Exactly 1 hour. -
Re 12:12 "Therefore rejoice, O heavens, and you who dwell in them! Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has a short time."Originally posted by Icemoon:satan couldn't see the end of time .. so he dunno his fate until it was spelt out in revelations.
Maybe now he taking measures to reverse the prophecy liao.
Probably satan rebelled because of instant gratification. It is just like sex .. under seduction you just do it. Just like human, angels also tempted by power, money and girls. -
Hmm...
A Christian WAS Stupid because he had sin.
Now this Christian is no longer stupid because he is saved.
Dangerous... -
ah .. you quoting who?Originally posted by M©+square:Hmm...
A Christian WAS Stupid because he had sin.
Now this Christian is no longer stupid because he is saved.
Dangerous... -
must ask sgmacross... i approached too many Catholics when i was recruiting. can't remember the faceOriginally posted by Icemoon:SGMacross's friend .. she chio or not?