The gospel is not christian....
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Yes you have faith in Yeshua, then what?Originally posted by laoda99:God compromised? Sorry no...it was within his ultimate plan to give salvation to the Jews first, and then the Gentiles.
If it is not abt keeping THE LAW (commandments), then Paul mention so many times MOSES' LAW so much? U r indeed blind by your Jewish ways when Paul says so many times that if u try to JUSTIFY BY LAW U ONLY GET DEATH!
There is only one standard: FAITH IN JESUS' CHRIST, not by keeping the LAW. U are preaching a false gospel if u insist on pleasing GOD with the LAW.
HOW DO YOU ORDER YOUR LIFE AFTER THAT?
What tells you that you are sinning or do you claim that after your salvation, you sin no more? I think you cannot read english very well, either that or your comprehension skills are severely lacking... READ MY POST, I SAID SALVATION IS BY FAITH IN YESHUA, did I ever say that our justification is by the law? NO, never ever.
Laoda answer these questions:
1. Once you have been saved by faith in the Messiah, then how are we supposed to live? According to what set of standards are we to order and pattern our lives?
2. How do we then know whether we have sinned or not?
3. What determines sin then? By whose standards? Yahweh's or our own?
4. So you are saying that Shaul got it right and Yeshua gave a false gospel? So I ask you what did Yeshua teach? Are you saying that you ignore His teachings?
5. You say that you follow Yeshua, then why do you not keep the sabbath, keep the Lord's feasts, keep the commandments? If you do not do these things you are not a follower, you are a groupie.
6. Who is Shaul? A pharisee. What did he say in 1 Cor 11:1? He said "Imitate me, just as I imitate Christ." So what is it to imitate Christ? Also why then would Shaul say in 1 Cor 11:2 "Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions juas as I delivered them to you." What traditions did Shaul mean? In 1 Cor 11:31 Shaul goes on to say that if we judge ourselves, we would not be judged, now I ask you how and by what standards are we to judge ourselves?
7. Read Galatians 3:13 carefullyl, it says that Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, what is the curse of the law? Death, but did it say that christ redeemed us from keeping or knowing the law?
8. Acts 15:19-21 (amplified bible)
19Therefore it is my opinion that we should not put obstacles in the way of and annoy and disturb those of the Gentiles who turn to God,
20But we should send word to them in writing to abstain from and avoid anything that has been polluted by being offered to idols, and all sexual impurity, and [eating meat of animals] that have been strangled, and [tasting of] blood.
21For from ancient generations Moses has had his preachers in every town, for he is read [aloud] every Sabbath in the synagogues.
Why then would verse 21 be written right after verse 20? -
laoda,
you still have not answered any of my questions to you and I am still waiting... -
Dun try to twist your words.....
Paul will never contradict Christ. It is clear that grace precedes everything, and to observe the law again is to reject the grace that God freely gives u.
Go ahead and observe the law, but Christians are living under God's grace.Originally posted by breytonhartge:
Yes you have faith in Yeshua, then what?
HOW DO YOU ORDER YOUR LIFE AFTER THAT?
What tells you that you are sinning or do you claim that after your salvation, you sin no more? I think you cannot read english very well, either that or your comprehension skills are severely lacking... READ MY POST, I SAID SALVATION IS BY FAITH IN YESHUA, did I ever say that our justification is by the law? NO, never ever.
Laoda answer these questions:
1. Once you have been saved by faith in the Messiah, then how are we supposed to live? According to what set of standards are we to order and pattern our lives?
2. How do we then know whether we have sinned or not?
3. What determines sin then? By whose standards? Yahweh's or our own?
4. So you are saying that Shaul got it right and Yeshua gave a false gospel? So I ask you what did Yeshua teach? Are you saying that you ignore His teachings?
5. You say that you follow Yeshua, then why do you not keep the sabbath, keep the Lord's feasts, keep the commandments? If you do not do these things you are not a follower, you are a groupie.
6. Who is Shaul? A pharisee. What did he say in 1 Cor 11:1? He said "Imitate me, just as I imitate Christ." So what is it to imitate Christ? Also why then would Shaul say in 1 Cor 11:2 "Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions juas as I delivered them to you." What traditions did Shaul mean? In 1 Cor 11:31 Shaul goes on to say that if we judge ourselves, we would not be judged, now I ask you how and by what standards are we to judge ourselves?
7. Read Galatians 3:13 carefullyl, it says that Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, what is the curse of the law? Death, but did it say that christ redeemed us from keeping or knowing the law?
8. Acts 15:19-21 (amplified bible)
19Therefore it is my opinion that we should not put obstacles in the way of and annoy and disturb those of the Gentiles who turn to God,
20But we should send word to them in writing to abstain from and avoid anything that has been polluted by being offered to idols, and all sexual impurity, and [eating meat of animals] that have been strangled, and [tasting of] blood.
[b] 21For from ancient generations Moses has had his preachers in every town, for he is read [aloud] every Sabbath in the synagogues.
Why then would verse 21 be written right after verse 20?[/b] -
very interesting group of pple i see here at Eternal hope with all sorts of different convictions i must say.
And i thought sg was boring..
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u also....one sentence like "different context" u escape liao....and then after that u set up red herring.....tsk tskOriginally posted by breytonhartge:laoda,
you still have not answered any of my questions to you and I am still waiting... -
What took you so long to come into this forum?Originally posted by Mystix:very interesting group of pple i see here at Eternal hope with all sorts of different convictions i must say.
And i thought sg was boring.. 
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yet you still cannot make the distinction... observance of the law for salvation vs observance of the law because of your salvation in order to understand the Father Yahweh.Originally posted by laoda99:Galatians 3
Faith or Observance of the Law
1You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? 3Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? 4Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? 5Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?
6Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."[a] 7Understand, then, that those who believe are children of Abraham. 8The Scripture foresaw that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, and announced the gospel in advance to Abraham: "All nations will be blessed through you."[b] 9So those who have faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
10All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."[c] 11Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."[d] 12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, "The man who does these things will live by them."[e] 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree."[f] 14He redeemed us in order that the blessing given to Abraham might come to the Gentiles through Christ Jesus, so that by faith we might receive the promise of the Spirit.
In all these passages, the debate is that one had to observe the law in addition to faith to be saved.
NOTE this difference, I am saying that salvation is by faith and BECAUSE you have been saved, you then observe the law and study the law to understand the mind of Yahweh. If you do not do these things then how can you become like Yeshua? If you have another way of becoming like Yeshua please share coz" I'd like to know. -
Everything to him is just torah torah torah...reminds me of a movie's nameOriginally posted by Chin Eng:Yup, maybe perhaps to him, the entire NT should not exist, 'cos everything beyond that can be attributed to gentiles who do not conform to the Hebraic way of thought.
I have given up on him....he can be a Jew if he likes.....nobody will stop him.... -
ok so you live by Yahweh's grace, so how do you define what is sin?Originally posted by laoda99:Dun try to twist your words.....
Paul will never contradict Christ. It is clear that grace precedes everything, and to observe the law again is to reject the grace that God freely gives u.
Go ahead and observe the law, but Christians are living under God's grace. -
God's grace is FREE thru ChristOriginally posted by breytonhartge:yet you still cannot make the distinction... observance of the law for salvation vs observance of the law because of your salvation in order to understand the Father Yahweh.
In all these passages, the debate is that one had to observe the law in addition to faith to be saved.
NOTE this difference, I am saying that salvation is by faith and BECAUSE you have been saved, you then observe the law and study the law to understand the mind of Yahweh. If you do not do these things then how can you become like Yeshua? If you have another way of becoming like Yeshua please share coz" I'd like to know.
U know the meaning of the word in red or not?
I do not observe the law or study the law to understand God's mind. I keep in mind that under the law I fail one commandment I failed God. Which is why there is no salvation under the Law. Which is why God has to give us his grace thru Jesus Christ.
If we can be saved by keeping God's commandments perfectly, why do we need Christ?
Understand or not? -
I am not twisting any words. If Shaul does not contradict Yeshua, then explain to me why Yeshua said to keep the commandments?Originally posted by laoda99:Dun try to twist your words.....
Paul will never contradict Christ. It is clear that grace precedes everything, and to observe the law again is to reject the grace that God freely gives u.
Go ahead and observe the law, but Christians are living under God's grace. -
Anything that draws me away from God's grace is sin........are you trying to be one now?Originally posted by breytonhartge:ok so you live by Yahweh's grace, so how do you define what is sin? -
Now u are saying Paul is a counterfeit?Originally posted by breytonhartge:I am not twisting any words. If Shaul does not contradict Yeshua, then explain to me why Yeshua said to keep the commandments?
Did Jesus say keep the commandments and get saved? When he says keep the commandments it is like a reminder to his pple to honour him.....not a DIE DIE MUST...understand or not? Coz Christ says:" If you love me, keep my commandments..."
Dun try to be smart alec and extra biblical by attaching conditions to God's grace..... -
Yahweh's grace is not free it cost Him Yeshua. IT may be a gift, but it certainly was not free.Originally posted by laoda99:God's grace is FREE thru Christ
U know the meaning of the word in red or not?
I do not observe the law or study the law to understand God's mind; I keep in mind that under the law I fail one commandment I failed God. Which is why there is no salvation under the Law. Which is why we need God's free grace?
Understand or not?
So does that mean you can kill and steal and do whatever you like? Can you then lie and cheat and fornicate etc? because you claim that you are under grace? So no need to worry about sin then correct?
SALVATION IS BY FAITH IN YESHUA. I HAVE NEVER SAID ANY DIFFERENT. -
elaborate then, what draws you away from Yahweh's grace?Originally posted by laoda99:Anything that draws me away from God's grace is sin........are you trying to be one now? -
Originally posted by breytonhartge:
FREE = FREE = NO CONDITIONS ATTACHED
[b]Yahweh's grace is not free it cost Him Yeshua. IT may be a gift, but it certainly was not free.
So does that mean you can kill and steal and do whatever you like? Can you then lie and cheat and fornicate etc? because you claim that you are under grace? So no need to worry about sin then correct?
SALVATION IS BY FAITH IN YESHUA. I HAVE NEVER SAID ANY DIFFERENT. [/b]
U should know what verses to counter your stupid 2nd para...... -
It is u!Originally posted by breytonhartge:elaborate then, what draws you away from Yahweh's grace?
Those kind of pple like u....who think they can observe the law perfectly!!!!
Hypocrites...... -
Why can't u come to your blooody senses?
If u can keep the commandments perfectly, God wouldn't have give u Christ!!!
Understand or not? U are damn irritating! -
what conditions have I attached?Originally posted by laoda99:Now u are saying Paul is a counterfeit?
Did Jesus say keep the commandments and get saved? When he says keep the commandments it is like a reminder to his pple to honour him.....not a DIE DIE MUST...understand or not?
Dun try to be smart alec and extra biblical by attaching conditions to God's grace.....
By the way many things in the bible are conditional... blessings are conditional, Yahweh's grace is conditional, your salvation is conditional...
If Yeshua said keep the commandments as a reminder to honour Him, then why did He say to the rich young ruler that to inherit eternal life, keep the commandments?
The message of Yahweh's grace is only beginning of the story.
How do you live your life for Yahweh? How do you know what pleases him? -
What is the law? What are the ten commandments?Originally posted by laoda99:It is u!
Those kind of pple like u....who think they can observe the law perfectly!!!!
Hypocrites......
I strive to observe the law and I believe that through Yeshua, I will and can keep them, because He has shown that it can be done. Remember Yeshua was fully human when He kept the law. But should I fall, I have grace to get up and continue on. -
Then may I ask why scriptures say: That whoever believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.Originally posted by breytonhartge:what conditions have I attached?
By the way many things in the bible are conditional... blessings are conditional, Yahweh's grace is conditional, your salvation is conditional...
If Yeshua said keep the commandments as a reminder to honour Him, then why did He say to the rich young ruler that to inherit eternal life, keep the commandments?
The message of Yahweh's grace is only beginning of the story.
How do you live your life for Yahweh? How do you know what pleases him?
U are damn irritating....now u put commandments more important than faith....
U are already wayward...pls dun make others the same like u.....
Go ahead and observe your commandments......we shall see whether they can save u or not.... -
Grace has got no conditions attached? Are you very sure?Originally posted by laoda99:FREE = FREE = NO CONDITIONS ATTACHED
U should know what verses to counter your stupid 2nd para......
If you do not accept Yeshua, do you have Yahweh's grace?
The condition to Yahweh's grace is this you HAVE TO ACCEPT YESHUA. -
Dun ask me answers u already know....Originally posted by breytonhartge:What is the law? What are the ten commandments?
I strive to observe the law and I believe that through Yeshua, I will and can keep them, because He has shown that it can be done. Remember Yeshua was fully human when He kept the law. But should I fall, I have grace to get up and continue on.
U know jolly well that keeping God's commandments is not a DIE DIE MUST....
U just keep repeating and repeating and we go around in circles....and that's damn irritating...... -
This is so stupid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Originally posted by breytonhartge:Grace has got no conditions attached? Are you very sure?
If you do not accept Yeshua, do you have Yahweh's grace?
The condition to Yahweh's grace is this you HAVE TO ACCEPT YESHUA.
My gf have said I am asperger.....but i think u are autistic..... -
did I say that I put commandments above faith? No, never.Originally posted by laoda99:Then may I ask why scriptures say: That whoever believes in him will not perish but have eternal life.
U are damn irritating....now u put commandments more important than faith....
U are already wayward...pls dun make others the same like u.....
Go ahead and observe your commandments......we shall see whether they can save u or not....
Please don't swear, it is not becoming for a believer...
My counter to you is what does it mean to believe in Yeshua?