Funny exchange between Jesus and Peter
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Originally posted by Ironside:
Perhaps the emphasis shouldn't be placed onto the Apostles. They are vessels. Infalliablity of Doctrines are taught and endorsed by Holy Spirit.
Here's what i said in my first post:
1) yeah, Peter rebuked the Lord in his ignorance. Being an apostle does not mean that you are immuned to moral failures and mistakes. They can still fall into sin. [b]But concerning DOCTRINE, whether in writing or teaching orally the doctrines of the faith, they are inerrant and infallible. Peter was not teaching doctrine here.
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But that never happenned. You are basing on suppositions and possiblities.Originally posted by Icemoon:You wait long long.
That is if you were a Ninivian on the way to Tarshish with him ..
Jonah's did not go to Ninveh because he does not want to be the mouth piece of God for this enemies of Israel. That was his mistake and sin. -
Agree.Originally posted by M©+square:Perhaps the emphasis shouldn't be placed onto the Apostles. They are vessels. Infalliablity of Doctrines are taught and endorsed by Holy Spirit.
Which is why I disagree with Ironside's great trust in the infalliability of the apostles "whether orally or in writing".
All glory belongs to God. Only He is infalliable. -
You are very sly.Originally posted by Ironside:But that never happenned. You are basing on suppositions and possiblities.
Jonah's did not go to Ninveh because he does not want to be the mouth piece of God for this enemies of Israel. That was his mistake and sin.
After endorsing the scenario in your reply - "If i weere to meet Jonah on the way to Niniveh, he would preached to me the same message of repentance. Read Jonah again." .. now you turn your back and claim I am basing on "suppositions and possiblities".
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No i never said that Icy. you are doing eisigesis into my words. I always believed in 2 Peter 1:21. Always believed in it. I will never depart from what is taught there.Originally posted by Icemoon:Agree.
Which is why I disagree with Ironside's great trust in the infalliability of the apostles "whether orally or in writing".
All glory belongs to God. Only He is infalliable.
They were infallible because of the Holy Spirit. That has always been my belief.
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private
interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost. -
why so defensive?Originally posted by Ironside:Amen. I have no problem with my post. i did not say that there only 1 lesson we could learn from Jonah.
did anyone suggest you said there's only 1 lesson we could learn from Jonah? -
me see smoke mushrooms 20km away....
Take cover!!!! -
wow .. so teaching now is only restricted to the bible?Originally posted by Ironside:I was careful to add "teaching orally" there.
Whre in the Bible did Peter say that Gentiles had to be circumcised to be a Christian?
so in my scenario that one cannot be called teaching?
as in Peter taught the gentile how to become a Christian. -
When Jonah was on his way to Nineveh he was there with the intention to preach the message that God wanted him to preach. That's why he changed course from the other direction to Nineveh. He was on his way there to preached what God intended him to preach. And so if i encounter him on the way to Nineveh he would preach to me the message from God.Originally posted by Icemoon:You are very sly.
After endorsing the scenario in your reply - "If i weere to meet Jonah on the way to Niniveh, he would preached to me the same message of repentance. Read Jonah again." .. now you turn your back and claim I am basing on "suppositions and possiblities". -
I am defeding the fundamental faith of the apostles infallibitly and ineerancy when teaching doctrine.Originally posted by Icemoon:why so defensive?
did anyone suggest you said there's only 1 lesson we could learn from Jonah?
This is an attack on the third fundamental of the christian faith.
When fundies say that the apostles are inerrant and infallible in teaching doctrine they imply that it's because of the Holy Spirit's guidance. -
then why you say I am basing on "suppositions and possiblities"?Originally posted by Ironside:When Jonah was on his way to Nineveh he was there with the intention to preach the message that God wanted him to preach. That's why he changed course from the other direction to Nineveh. He was on his way there to preached what God intended him to preach. And so if i encounter him on the way to Nineveh he would preach to me the message from God.
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the point is moot now .. because a donkey is also infalliable and inerrant at the right time.Originally posted by Ironside:I am defeding the fundamental faith of the apostles infallibitly and ineerancy when teaching doctrine.
This is an attack on the third fundamental of the christian faith.
When fundies say that the apostles are inerrant and infallible in teaching doctrine they imply that it's because of the Holy Spirit's guidance. -
Ultimate!!!!Originally posted by Icemoon:the point is moot now .. because a donkey is also infalliable and inerrant at the right time.
I didn't see this comin! -
I did not say that teaching should be restricted to the Bible. Teaching ministers are to teach what is taught in the inerrant and infallible Word.Originally posted by Icemoon:wow .. so teaching now is only restricted to the bible?
so in my scenario that one cannot be called teaching?
as in Peter taught the gentile how to become a Christian.
Peter taught how the Gentiles could be a Christian and any teacher now should follow what Peter did and taught about how to become a Christian. -
you did not address my scenario leh.Originally posted by Ironside:I did not say that teaching should be restricted to the Bible. Teaching ministers are to teach what is taught in the inerrant and infallible Word.
Peter taught how the Gentiles could be a Christian and any teacher now should follow what Peter did and taught about how to become a Christian.
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I know liao .. 'cos my Petrine scenario is based on "suppositions and possiblities".
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Originally posted by Icemoon:
then why you say I am basing on "suppositions and possiblities"?
quote]Originally posted by Icemoon:
exactly.
If you were to meet the Prophet Jonah during his trip to Nineveh? .. he will preach the wrong message to you.
But if you were to read the Book of Jonah .. you get the right message.
there's what you said.
Why say that Jonah would teach wrong message there in Nineveh when He was NOW going there to obey and deliver the message of God to them? -
A donkey delivered the message to Balaam. God can use anyone to speak His infallible Word.Originally posted by Icemoon:the point is moot now .. because a donkey is also infalliable and inerrant at the right time.
Did'nt God spoke through the Donkey?
Nu 22:25 And when the donkey saw the Angel of the LORD, she pushed herself against the wall and crushed Balaam's foot against the wall; so he struck her again.
Nu 22:27 And when the donkey saw the Angel of the LORD, she lay down under Balaam; so Balaam's anger was aroused, and he struck the donkey with his staff.
Nu 22:28 Then the LORD opened the mouth of the donkey, and she said to Balaam, "What have I done to you, that you have struck me these three times?" -
Originally posted by Ironside:
Here is what I really said, to which you made your "suppositions and possibilies" remark:
[b]Originally posted by Icemoon:
then why you say I am basing on "suppositions and possiblities"?
quote]Originally posted by Icemoon:
exactly.
If you were to meet the Prophet Jonah during his trip to Nineveh? .. he will preach the wrong message to you.
But if you were to read the Book of Jonah .. you get the right message.
there's what you said.
Why say that Jonah would teach wrong message there in Nineveh when He was NOW going there to obey and deliver the message of God to them?
[/b]
So my question is - in what way is my scenario "suppositions and possibilies"?
You wait long long.
That is if you were a Ninivian on the way to Tarshish with him ..
Maybe I wasn't clear when I said "If you were to meet the Prophet Jonah during his trip to Nineveh?", I meant that in the context of the whole account. After all his mission was to go Nineveh.
My Apologies. -
how come Ironside so many words today?
I thought he was just about to go recuperating? -
I thought you enjoyed it didn't you?Originally posted by Icemoon:how come Ironside so many words today?
I thought he was just about to go recuperating? -
here's the position of the fundamentalist and evangelical in short:
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good
works.
Inspiration of God does not and cannot afford error in the teaching's of Scripture.
Why because God is perfect and infallible. The Holy Spirit [the third person of the Godhead] guided them in such a way that they will never commit errors in their writings.
2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."
prophecy" could be forthtelling or foretelling. When predicting that is foretelling. When forthtelling that is encouraging and edifying writing and teaching.
SO WHAT ABOUT WHEN THEY SPEAK CONCERNING THE DOCTRINES OF THE FAITH?
1Co 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
1 Corinthians 14:3 combined with 2 Peter 1:21 [Though 2 Peter was referring to Scriptures] makes it clear that even when a prophet prophecies ORALLY [apostles were also prophets], they are guided by the Spirit.
Why not? the Lord promised this:
Joh 14:26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.
Joh 15:15 "No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you.
So in conclusion:
Apostles never commit mistakes in either their teaching [orally or written]
thanks nice exchange of ideas...... i really have to go.....i am using only a pre-paid internet card. i have to save some for it for ministry work. bye. see you two weeks from now.
i have to defend my faith Icy. have too. There are baby Christians here who could be misled.
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It was a nice exchange without all the name calling typical in other topics.Originally posted by Ironside:thanks nice exchange of ideas...... i really have to go.....i am using only a pre-paid internet card. i have to save some for it for ministry work. bye. see you two weeks from now.
Yeah .. you better save more for ministry work which is more worthwhile. -
Does God speak to you in your sleep? Does He teach you doctrines in your dreams?Originally posted by Icemoon:Agree.
Which is why I disagree with Ironside's great trust in the infalliability of the apostles "whether orally or in writing".
All glory belongs to God. Only He is infalliable.
Since God has chosen to reveal Himself in the mystery of Jesus Christ, incarnate in flesh and blood, it is also necessary that a living Church be present to continue the teachings of Christ.
If not to this living Church then to whom shall we turn to? -
Yahweh can do so if He chooses.... the qestion here becomes is the church as we know today teaching faithfully and accurately the teachings of Yeshua and Yahweh.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Does God speak to you in your sleep? Does He teach you doctrines in your dreams?
Since God has chosen to reveal Himself in the mystery of Jesus Christ, incarnate in flesh and blood, it is also necessary that a living Church be present to continue the teachings of Christ.
If not to this living Church then to whom shall we turn to?