Church spending disillusion many- where's the governance?
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The Catholic view is that you must keep the ten commandments. By the Grace of God you will be able to do so.Originally posted by vince69:till now, who was the one saying the rich man in the quoted verses was ogling?
so far the argument is that there is no way a person can keep the ten commandments perfectly, against you, who claim its possible. -
Dong Zhuo ah .. maybe CK?Originally posted by laurence82:then who is Dong Zhuo and Diao Chan?
Diao Chan .. think maybe Mooku. -
*brey breaks the seal and bombs the mountain... *Originally posted by M©+square:*mc sealed himself in a mountian and relac.
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for once we agree on something...Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:The Catholic view is that you must keep the ten commandments. By the Grace of God you will be able to do so. -
your explanation is very vague.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:The Catholic view is that you must keep the ten commandments. By the Grace of God you will be able to do so.
they are discussing whether one can keep the decalogue perfectly. -
Personal view on the ten commandments.....Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:The Catholic view is that you must keep the ten commandments. By the Grace of God you will be able to do so.
following the ten commandments is like walking on a tight rope, there is absolutely no leeway for faults/errors/mistakes... one wrong moves and it a very long drop to the ground... God's grace is like the safety net, its there when should we fall off the rope, to catch us so that we can climb back up the ladder and continue on.
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Catholic view or God's view more important ?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:The Catholic view is that you must keep the ten commandments. By the Grace of God you will be able to do so.
How about by the Grace of God, we come to know through the commandments, what is sin, and by His Grace, we repent and are forgiven for our daily iniquities ? -
I'd say the Catholic view represents God's view, but you'll have to beg to differ, for obvious reasons.Originally posted by klydeer:Catholic view or God's view more important ?
How about by the Grace of God, we come to know through the commandments, what is sin, and by His Grace, we repent and are forgiven for our daily iniquities ?
What you've said does not contradict the Catholic view. We are saved by Grace, but only if we cooperate through Faith.
Faith does not merely represent belief, but must also include an outward change and action. We Catholic people call this 'works', but 'works' is often misunderstood as trying to do Christ's saving work. -
I suspect many protestants repent orally .. then a few days later when faced with a similar scenario made NO effort to contain the sin.Originally posted by klydeer:Catholic view or God's view more important ?
How about by the Grace of God, we come to know through the commandments, what is sin, and by His Grace, we repent and are forgiven for our daily iniquities ?
.. and the cycle repeats. -
It dawn upon me sometime ago, that - it's not that they want to indulge in the cycle.Originally posted by Icemoon:I suspect many protestants repent orally .. then a few days later when faced with a similar scenario made NO effort to contain the sin.
.. and the cycle repeats.
But they DO NOT 'KNOW' how to get out of it. They forgot who is the source of deliverance.
A crude analogy will be ; having a CPU with power-point(power supply), but no knowledge of switching on the power supply.
They have missed the act of repentance altogether.
The next part, will be blaming the leaders.
*Escapes* -
at least they know they are in a cycle.Originally posted by M©+square:It dawn upon me sometime ago, that it's not that they want to indulge in the cycle.
But they DO NOT 'KNOW' how to get out of it. They forgot who is the source of deliverance.
what if you don't? the whole day you'd be screaming "take out the log in your eyes first la". -
till now, who was the one saying the rich man in the quoted verses was ogling?
I already stated many times tat the 10 commandment can be kept perfectly, especially from the jewish perspective. If it can't be kept then the whole jewish race r condemn to doom. If u felt tat all god chosen people r condemn to doom by god then I have nothing to say. Why don't u comment on tis ?
so far the argument is that there is no way a person can keep the ten commandments perfectly, against you, who claim its possible. -
I am going to say this,
as SIS says, the ten commandments are definitely able to be kept. And many Jews have kept them. If the ten commandments could not have been kept, then Yahweh would be very cruel to ask us to keep them.
But SIS, what you have also not understood is that Yeshua expanded the ten commandments, ie... the example of adultery, Yeshua, expanded it to include the idea of adultery eg Matthew 5:27-28 “You have heard that it was said to those of old,[c] ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.
Still the young rulers attitude when asked about whether he had kept the commandments perfectly may have been arrogant, know that Yeshua knew the man's heart already. What are the commandments? you yourself stated them... what is the first commandment?
YOU SHALL HAVE NO OTHER gods BEFORE ME.
What did the rich young ruler put before Yahweh? His wealth, in this context, his money had become his god and this already meant that he had broken the commandments. That is why Yeshua tested him, ie to ask him to give his money to the poor. If you want to take these verses as they are in the bible, don't add salt on your part also by saying what about the rich young rulers family etc... for all we know, he did not have any family.
The other point to make here is that the rich young ruler already knew the answer to how to inherit eternal life, but because he knew he had a problem, that is why he asked... to see if he can get out of it.... hence we see he went away sad because he could not give up his love of his wealth and as such, could have missed out on inheriting eternal life.... -
so do you agree that we have to keep the commandments?Originally posted by vince69:Personal view on the ten commandments.....
following the ten commandments is like walking on a tight rope, there is absolutely no leeway for faults/errors/mistakes... one wrong moves and it a very long drop to the ground... God's grace is like the safety net, its there when should we fall off the rope, to catch us so that we can climb back up the ladder and continue on. -
The jews will never be condemned to hell, it is already stated in the book of revelations that there are a remanant of 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes which have been reserved or sealed... beyond that there will be others saved as many are looking for messiah to return as it is also stated in the bible that they (the Jews) were blinded for our sakes. See Romans 11:25-27 and it ends with this and so shall all Israel be saved....Originally posted by stupidissmart:I already stated many times tat the 10 commandment can be kept perfectly, especially from the jewish perspective. If it can't be kept then the whole jewish race r condemn to doom. If u felt tat all god chosen people r condemn to doom by god then I have nothing to say. Why don't u comment on tis ? -
Theologically, i have no problems with your sayings above. But i would insist that whatever _____'s view is still a product of men's understanding of God's Words and should not be in any ways, treated as perfectly equal or above God's viewpoint.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:I'd say the Catholic view represents God's view, but you'll have to beg to differ, for obvious reasons.
What you've said does not contradict the Catholic view. We are saved by Grace, but only if we cooperate through Faith.
Faith does not merely represent belief, but must also include an outward change and action. We Catholic people call this 'works', but 'works' is often misunderstood as trying to do Christ's saving work.
Change and action - of course they are important and they should be the fruits of repentence. But such change and action must be important to God, and not be created for self importance in order to serve God.
Doing things for God and doing things in obedience to God's commandments and Christ's teachings are totally different. The first glorify the self, the second, glory God. The first distance oneself from God, the second creates opportunities for intimacy with our God and Saviour.
And sometimes, Faith is just about "believing" for our God, is powerful and Love is enough to do the rest. -
thought we had gone through this a dozen times...Originally posted by breytonhartge:so do you agree that we have to keep the commandments?
my stand on this is, to me, keeping the commandments is not a have to, but a want to..., and the question "why?" is always comes first before the "how?" or "what?".
Have to :
I have to keep the commandments because if I don't God will condemn me to hell.
Wants to:
God do not condemn me, because what Christ had done on the cross, His blood that was shed for me santified me, cleansing me, making me acceptable before God, and because of this, I want to do the right things and not just the legal things.
on being able to keep the ten commandments, my personal stand is, apart from Christ, this is impossible.
If man is able to keep the Law, then God do not need to send Christ to suffer and die on the cross for us.
If its possible to keep them, apart from Christ, then this would have meant there is another way to heaven, meaning Christ had lied when He said, "no man goes to the Father apart from Me.",
will the Jews be save at the end? most probably, is it because of keeping the law? most unlikely. If the Jews were to be saved, my personally opinion is that it would most likely be because of God's faithfulness to His covenant with them. -
God's revelation has ended, but human understanding has not. We have but a human intellect; how is it possible to perfectly know the mysteries of God?Originally posted by klydeer:Theologically, i have no problems with your sayings above. But i would insist that whatever _____'s view is still a product of men's understanding of God's Words and should not be in any ways, treated as perfectly equal or above God's viewpoint.
Change and action - of course they are important and they should be the fruits of repentence. But such change and action must be important to God, and not be created for self importance in order to serve God.
Doing things for God and doing things in obedience to God's commandments and Christ's teachings are totally different. The first glorify the self, the second, glory God. The first distance oneself from God, the second creates opportunities for intimacy with our God and Saviour.
And sometimes, Faith is just about "believing" for our God, is powerful and Love is enough to do the rest.
How does doing things for God contradict obedience? I think it really depends on the mindset of the individual. Needless to say that there are those who bask in human admiration, because they serve God in various ministries. This is something we can learn; we must be humble in serving Him. Aim for the reward in heaven, not on earth.
Faith is the most important, but we must not forget to carry our crosses. Even Christ himself needed to do it, therefore we are not immune. Let our Faith aid us in our daily crosses. -
again.....
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This part I disagree, reason being Christ did not carried His own cross (there is no need to), He is carried ours for us.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:God's revelation has ended, but human understanding has not. We have but a human intellect; how is it possible to perfectly know the mysteries of God?
How does doing things for God contradict obedience? I think it really depends on the mindset of the individual. Needless to say that there are those who bask in human admiration, because they serve God in various ministries. This is something we can learn; we must be humble in serving Him. Aim for the reward in heaven, not on earth.[/quote]
This part I agree with you
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Faith is the most important, but we must not forget to carry our crosses. Even Christ himself needed to do it, therefore we are not immune. Let our Faith aid us in our daily crosses. -
Nan desu ka?!Originally posted by vince69:This part I disagree, reason being Christ did not carried His own cross (there is no need to), He is carried ours for us.
Don't tell me He walked to Calvary empty handed?
Do not forget that Christ Incarnate is both God and Man; Being a Man He fully understands our pains and temptations. He too was tempted also.
But from what I understand, you are correct in saying that He took the burden of the world's sins upon His shoulders, making it His own cross. -
go back to the forrest and rest lah...Originally posted by M©+square:again..... -
He kenna driven out of the forest by the forest fire liao lah...Originally posted by breytonhartge:go back to the forrest and rest lah... -
....you turn against meee?????Originally posted by vince69:He kenna driven out of the forest by the forest fire liao lah... 
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hey, who turn against you,.. tell you don't play with fire, you go and smoke the mushrooms...Originally posted by M©+square:....you turn against meee????? 
now my forest cabin also kenna burnt down liao.. 