A sermon to share: Sinners in the hands of an angry God
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what a perfect excuse to sinOriginally posted by Icemoon:.. in the eyes of God only.
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maybe.Originally posted by laurence82:So the holy spirit fill the audience lar? thats why they bang head against wall and pillars?
or the message itself is scary. like I tell you story of 18 levels of hell .. maybe you pee in your pants. -
1. Only perfect people can go to heaven
2. No one is perfect so no one goes to heaven
3. But Christian can go to heaven
4. And christians r not perfect since no man is perfect and only god is perfect
In the end there is a contradiction between 1, 3 and 4.
It is not "perfect" people tat goes to heaven, but merely christians. The idea of "perfect" requirement is actually just for show Christ is perfect doesn't make christians perfect. Otherwise your definition of perfect is faulty -
salvation is justification, sanctification and glorification.
justification is positional truth. IN THE EYES OF GOD BECAUSE OF HIS SON CHRIST JESUS THOSE WHO TRUST IN HIM [SAVIOR] ARE PERFECTLY RIGHTEOUS THOUGH THEY ARE STILL IN THEIR SINNING STATE.
sanctification is both positional and condition truths. Positionally [with regards to our standing, with regards to how God looks at us] we are separated unto Him forever BECAUSE OF THE WORK OF THE CROSS MADE EFFECTUAL BY THE HOLY SPIRIT.
But when we look at ourselves [when we look at our condition or our actual state now] we are still imperfect [not perfectly righteous]. God does something about that [don't worry]. He then progressively MAKES us righteous. [justification is being DECLARED righteous not MADE righteous].
Sanctification [progressive] is a process wherein God MAKES the justified sinner righteous. God has DECLARED him righteous so He MAKES him righteous.
Glorification is completed sanctification. The process of transformation has reached it's goal- perfect righteousness. It occurs at death [the glorification of our soul-spirit. At the Rapture, our bodies will be glorifeid]
Glorification also has a positional aspect. God looks at us now as having been glorified already. The work of perfection and making completely righteous is done. To God it is good as done. Because what He has DECLARED [JUSTITICATION] will surely come to pass [GLORIFICATION] through transformation [sanctification]
Let me show you other positional truths:
In God's eyes we are already in heaven:
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
5 even while we were dead in our trespasses, made us live together with 6 together with him He raised us from the dead, and together with Christ Jesus seated us in the heavenly realm,
But conditionally [with regards to our state] we are still here on earth as pilgrims and travellers to heaven:
1Pe 2:11 Beloved, I beg you as sojourners and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts which war against the soul,
God commands us to walk according to what we are already in His eyes. We do not belong here in this fallen world, SO DON'T ACT LIKE YOUR FROM HERE.
Act like who you are in God's eyes.
God says that our [Christians] life is in heaven already POSITIONALLY :
Col 3:1 If you then are risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ abides, seated on the right hand of God.
2 Set your heart on things above, not on earthly things;
3 for you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
BUT our life is still here on earth. We still live here. But God calls us to be who we are in His eyes. We are already in heaven. So act like your in heaven here on earth.
READ AGAin verse 2 :
Col 3:1 If you then are risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ abides, seated on the right hand of God.
2 Set your heart on things above, not on earthly things;
3 for you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God.
In conclusion: What matters actually is who we are in God's eyes. For it is He who is our judge, not other people, not ourselves.
Even if we don't find satisfaction in ourselves, even if other people do not find satisfaction of us, it doesn't matter. It is God's view of us that counts.
Repent and Trust in Christ alone for perfect righteousness in the eyes of God.
Praise God. the God who is sooo gracious and kind. !!!!! -
If I am not wrong, the above paragraph can be summarised as
"Just converted Christian did not change at all, only the perception of god on them changes. And tis is all tat matters. "
In the end the idea of perfect being going to heaven is still an excuse. Sinning, kind deeds etc means nothing in the end. People just wanted the world to be unfair and wanted extra favours for themselves -
sorry la, me english bad....Originally posted by laurence82:Idoit lar
Unker Vince is clearer
Got question
If accepting christ means you are made righteous and perfect, so any christian walking down the street now is righteous and perfect?
"Made" righteous and perfect is different from yourself being righteous and perfect
it is like when God sees u he sees Christ, that's why he won't see ur sin and see u as righteous instead.... -
becoz pple nowadays just wanna know abt blessings (and how young or healthy they can get by receiving holy communion)....Originally posted by laurence82:isnt gospel the good news? why they will be sleeping?
talk abt wrath of god will make pple think u overreacting (or looney)......grace grace grace grace grace mah! -
anyone who is truly justified in the eyes of God will somehow, somewhere, sometime manifest a changed life.Originally posted by stupidissmart:If I am not wrong, the above paragraph can be summarised as
"Just converted Christian did not change at all, only the perception of god on them changes. And tis is all tat matters. "
In the end the idea of perfect being going to heaven is still an excuse. Sinning, kind deeds etc means nothing in the end. People just wanted the world to be unfair and wanted extra favours for themselves
Anyone truly justified [declared righteous] will evince a righteous life. -
Anyone know the Christian's stance on believers marrying non believers?
Unker CE mentioned before, but I cant rem what it was exactly -
You can marry, but your spouse can stumble you 'cos you two are unequally yoked.Originally posted by laurence82:Anyone know the Christian's stance on believers marrying non believers?
Unker CE mentioned before, but I cant rem what it was exactly
so you are warned. -
Somebody better go reply this guy. Ristar
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=198737&page=1 -
The person is Ristar meh?Originally posted by laurence82:Somebody better go reply this guy. Ristar
http://www.sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=198737&page=1
Anyway I've replied. -
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mc2 not happy with my reply.Originally posted by M©+square: 
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Nope i'm fine.Originally posted by Icemoon:mc2 not happy with my reply.
Just that i don't understand why people get so worked up over religion-relationship topic.
All the point of views and post fights come together especially in this kind of topic.
And in end state, it doesn't help the poor guy.
People just want to speak their views. but spare a thought for the guy lah... -
yah lor .. to think they never advertise EH also.Originally posted by M©+square:Nope i'm fine.
Just that i don't understand why people get so worked up over religion-relationship topic.
All the point of views and post fights come together especially in this kind of topic.
And in end state, it doesn't help the poor guy.
People just want to speak their views. but spare a thought for the guy lah...
Want to fight come here and fight lah! -
SighOriginally posted by laoda99:sorry la, me english bad....
"Made" righteous and perfect is different from yourself being righteous and perfect
it is like when God sees u he sees Christ, that's why he won't see ur sin and see u as righteous instead....
That is the same as saying, I am not righteous or even right, but it doesnt matter coz of christ
sigh -
Originally posted by Icemoon:yah lor .. to think they never advertise EH also.
Want to fight come here and fight lah!
I allow you to advertise EH and link over here, just don't post verses and arouse religious arguement.
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argumentOriginally posted by M©+square:
I allow you to advertise EH and link over here, just don't post verses and arouse religious arguement. -
Orh. Arhgument.Originally posted by laurence82:argument
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actually the key to salvation is REPENTANCE, if there is no repentance, then there is no salvation... and these people will be judged for what they do. For if they treat the precious gift of Yahweh so lightly, you can be sure that Yahweh will also say to them begone from me you workers of iniquity.Originally posted by stupidissmart:If I am not wrong, the above paragraph can be summarised as
"Just converted Christian did not change at all, only the perception of god on them changes. And tis is all tat matters. "
In the end the idea of perfect being going to heaven is still an excuse. Sinning, kind deeds etc means nothing in the end. People just wanted the world to be unfair and wanted extra favours for themselves
like Ironside says, if the conversion is true, then there WILL BE CHANGE. -
I disagree, the Key to salvation is Christ Jesus.Originally posted by breytonhartge:actually the key to salvation is REPENTANCE, if there is no repentance, then there is no salvation... and these people will be judged for what they do. For if they treat the precious gift of Yahweh so lightly, you can be sure that Yahweh will also say to them begone from me you workers of iniquity.
like Ironside says, if the conversion is true, then there WILL BE CHANGE. -
you mis-read brey lah.Originally posted by vince69:I disagree, the Key to salvation is Christ Jesus.
Jesus Christ is salvation. The key is something else. I rather you say faith than Jesus Christ. -
Jesus paid the price for our salvation.Originally posted by Icemoon:you mis-read brey lah.
Jesus Christ is salvation. The key is something else. I rather you say faith than Jesus Christ.
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no point accepting Yeshua with no repentance, because Yahweh will say begone from me your workers of iniquity. Yeshua is not a free pass into Heaven... if the person does not repent, then what is the point of saying he accepts Yeshua? A person's faith must be backed up by his actions.Originally posted by vince69:Jesus paid the price for our salvation.