God commanded the use of icons?
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understand,Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:If everybody has his own interpretation, there will be thousands of permutations of them. Which one is the correct interpretation then?
In other words, individual lay person is still allow to study the bible and draw their own independant conclusion, and that anyone who question the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church is consider an act of heresy.
thanks for the clarification. -
Laoda, according to the website, you had just committed an heresy, in that you question the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church.Originally posted by laoda99:The protestants as heresy ones i am not surprised....but I am more against the verses quoted in support of symbols for Christ......the verses quoted are not relevant at all.....
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unker vince,Originally posted by vince69:understand,
In other words, individual lay person is still allow to study the bible and draw their own independant conclusion, and that anyone who question the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church is consider an act of heresy.
thanks for the clarification.
I dun think so
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it's ok lar.....to them we are heretics.....but some of us also say they commit heresy mahOriginally posted by vince69:Laoda, according to the website, you had just committed an heresy, in that you question the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church. 
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yeah, more or less even. lol.Originally posted by laoda99:it's ok lar.....to them we are heretics.....but some of us also say they commit heresy mah -
burn pple coz.....hungry??Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Err, that's why we excommunicated Luther, and burnt his predecessors.
If not burn people for fun meh...
dun forget the BBQ sauce ha -
the part that say,Originally posted by laoda99:unker vince,
I dun think so A significant feature of this heresy is the attempt to pit the Church "against" the Bible, denying that the magisterium has any infallible authority to teach and interpret Scripture.
in other words, whatever the Church teaching and interpretation of the scripture is infallible (ie. cannot be questioned). -
yes....this is correctOriginally posted by vince69:in other words, whatever the Church teaching and interpretation of the scripture is infallible (ie. cannot be questioned).
but u said "individual lay person is still allow to study the bible and draw their own independant conclusion" I really doubt so.........
u are suppose to read the bible and understand what the church tells u from there... -
sgmacross,Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:
would u like to comment on some of the verses used in catholic answers with regards to icons.....are they relevant? -
and dun forget....during the great schism....RC was ex-com by orthodox church also (RC also ex-com orthodox)Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Err, that's why we excommunicated Luther, and burnt his predecessors.
If not burn people for fun meh...
ex-com sounds like a great game -
maybe allow, as long as your conclusion is, the Church is correct anything else is not permissible (according to what is being said).Originally posted by laoda99:yes....this is correct
but u said "individual lay person is still allow to study the bible and draw their own independant conclusion" I really doubt so......... -
I think what RC believe is:Originally posted by vince69:maybe allow, as long as your conclusion is, the Church is correct anything else is not permissible (according to what is being said).
u are suppose to read the bible and understand what the church tells u from there...and not inteprete urself.... -
There is a game called X Com. Very old game.Originally posted by laoda99:and dun forget....during the great schism....RC was ex-com by orthodox church also (RC also ex-com orthodox)
ex-com sounds like a great game
The mutual anathemas have since been lifted. -
i tot anathema= damned to eternityOriginally posted by SingaporeMacross:There is a game called X Com. Very old game.
The mutual anathemas have since been lifted.
can be lifted one meh? -
Laoda,Originally posted by laoda99:mebbe u can explain since u are RC
the quotes used by this article regarding iconclasm.......is not really relevant....and in a sense....dishonest in my view......
dun get me wrong....i love the vatican exhibits.....just that the quotes doesn't look honest/relevant in this article....
do you know why I am druming on the part of individual conclusion of the Bible?
This is the part that prompts me to rasie that question.
cause in this part, you are 1) drawing your own individual conclusion of the quotes used which I assume differ from theirs (ref: dishonest in my view), 2) you had just questioned the RC Church's offical interpretation of these scriptural verses.
To me this is a "catch 22" type of thing. -
Unker vince,Originally posted by vince69:Laoda,
do you know why I am druming on the part of individual conclusion of the Bible?
This is the part that prompts me to rasie that question.
cause in this part, you are 1) drawing your own individual conclusion of the quotes used which I assume differ from theirs (ref: dishonest in my view), 2) you had just questioned the RC Church's offical interpretation of these scriptural verses.
To me this is a "catch 22" type of thing.
I think u r right in saying abt 1)
but so far no RC has yet replied regarding my questions abt the verses used,
and I am not sure whether the website is RC Church's official interpretation of these scriptural verses
if they are, I will still say it is not honest....
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Ex. 25:18–20Originally posted by laoda99:sgmacross,
would u like to comment on some of the verses used in catholic answers with regards to icons.....are they relevant?
18 And make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. 19 Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends. 20 The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim are to face each other, looking toward the cover.
The Lord asked Moses to make images of angels but it's supposed to be forbidden? He contradict Himself?
1 Chr. 28:18–19
18 and the weight of the refined gold for the altar of incense. He also gave him the plan for the chariot, that is, the cherubim of gold that spread their wings and shelter the ark of the covenant of the LORD.
19 "All this," David said, "I have in writing from the hand of the LORD upon me, and he gave me understanding in all the details of the plan."
This details the construction of the Temple by Solomon. Take note of the angels once more.
Num. 21:8–9
8 The LORD said to Moses, "Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live." 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, he lived.
with John 3:14
14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
You cannot see the link meh? -
where is the link?
cherubims i know, but how does it link to symbols of christ?
and verse John 3:14 is totally off.....Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Ex. 25:18–20
18 And make two cherubim out of hammered gold at the ends of the cover. 19 Make one cherub on one end and the second cherub on the other; make the cherubim of one piece with the cover, at the two ends. 20 The cherubim are to have their wings spread upward, overshadowing the cover with them. The cherubim are to face each other, looking toward the cover.
The Lord asked Moses to make images of angels but it's supposed to be forbidden? He contradict Himself?
1 Chr. 28:18–19
18 and the weight of the refined gold for the altar of incense. He also gave him the plan for the chariot, that is, the cherubim of gold that spread their wings and shelter the ark of the covenant of the LORD.
19 "All this," David said, "I have in writing from the hand of the LORD upon me, and he gave me understanding in all the details of the plan."
This details the construction of the Temple by Solomon. Take note of the angels once more.
Num. 21:8–9
8 The LORD said to Moses, "Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live." 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, he lived.
with John 3:14
14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
You cannot see the link meh? -
These are very sentitive issues, I think we should just give this a break and wait for any futher clarifications.
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who killed/burnt/hung Tyndale and Bruno ah .. do you remember?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Err, that's why we excommunicated Luther, and burnt his predecessors.
If not burn people for fun meh... -
The first ex-com happened way before the great schism, around AD500. The great schism happened around AD1000.Originally posted by laoda99:and dun forget....during the great schism....RC was ex-com by orthodox church also (RC also ex-com orthodox)
ex-com sounds like a great game
The relationship between the Eastern and Western Catholic was in limbo until the 20th century. -
The Roman Catholics shot themselves if they believe this statement of yours. Do you know why?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:If everybody has his own interpretation, there will be thousands of permutations of them. Which one is the correct interpretation then?
Because the argument that the RC holds the sole [correct] interpretation (cf. Apostle Peter) is itself a personal interpretation!
Either you agree with me or you admit committing the fallacy of "begging the question" (Petitio Principii).
There is no notion of natural rights or self evident truth in the argument. -
aberthen?Originally posted by laoda99:I think what RC believe is:
u are suppose to read the bible and understand what the church tells u from there...and not inteprete urself....
Let ppl anyhow come out with new interpretation and then set up own denominations and stuff? Or even being called a cult leader? This is how cult groups and heretics came about.
They will claim that they were inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit, cuz they prayed before reading the bible. Ya right! God guide us to come up with new meaning of His very own words?
These ppl think they can understand the bible more than the church scholars throughout the 2000 years. It's sad to see these kind of ppl keep sprouting out of dunno where all over the Christian world. As if Christianity is not disunited enough since the 15th century...
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About the part in red, the truth is this - the prots and RCs are both appealing to authority.Originally posted by Honeybunz:aberthen?
Let ppl anyhow come out with new interpretation and then set up own denominations and stuff? Or even being called a cult leader? This is how cult groups and heretics came about.
They will claim that they were inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit, cuz they prayed before reading the bible. Ya right! God guide us to come up with new meaning of His very own words?
These ppl think they can understand the bible more than the church scholars throughout the 2000 years. It's sad to see these kind of ppl keep sprouting out of dunno where all over the Christian world. As if Christianity is not disunited enough since the 15th century...
RCs - authority of popes and scholars
Prots - authority of the _____ (fill in yourself, you should know the ans )