God commanded the use of icons?
-
I find the verses quoted in this link is not relevant in supporting the author's views regarding icons.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Great_Heresies.asp
Iconoclasm (7th and 8th Centuries)
This heresy arose when a group of people known as iconoclasts (literally, "icon smashers") appeared, who claimed that it was sinful to make pictures and statues of Christ and the saints, despite the fact that in the Bible, God had commanded the making of religious statues (Ex. 25:18–20; 1 Chr. 28:18–19), including symbolic representations of Christ (cf. Num. 21:8–9 with John 3:14). -
Also in the same page.....Jansenius sound like a calvinist
Jansenism (17th Century)
Jansenius, bishop of Ypres, France, initiated this heresy with a paper he wrote on Augustine, which redefined the doctrine of grace. Among other doctrines, his followers denied that Christ died for all men, but claimed that he died only for those who will be finally saved (the elect). This and other Jansenist errors were officially condemned by Pope Innocent X in 1653.
Heresies have been with us from the ChurchÂ’s beginning. They even have been started by Church leaders, who were then corrected by councils and popes. Fortunately, we have ChristÂ’s promise that heresies will never prevail against the Church, for he told Peter, "You are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:1
. The Church is truly, in PaulÂ’s words, "the pillar and foundation of the truth" (1 Tim. 3:15). -
Then maybe you find a Russian/Greek Orthodox person to explain lor.Originally posted by laoda99:I find the verses quoted in this link is not relevant in supporting the author's views regarding icons.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Great_Heresies.asp
Iconoclasm (7th and 8th Centuries)
This heresy arose when a group of people known as iconoclasts (literally, "icon smashers") appeared, who claimed that it was sinful to make pictures and statues of Christ and the saints, despite the fact that in the Bible, God had commanded the making of religious statues (Ex. 25:18–20; 1 Chr. 28:18–19), including symbolic representations of Christ (cf. Num. 21:8–9 with John 3:14).
They are the masters of icon making. Very nice ones indeed.
obiterdicta -
mebbe u can explain since u are RCOriginally posted by ObiterDicta:Then maybe you find a Russian/Greek Orthodox person to explain lor.
They are the masters of icon making. Very nice ones indeed.
obiterdicta
the quotes used by this article regarding iconclasm.......is not really relevant....and in a sense....dishonest in my view......
dun get me wrong....i love the vatican exhibits.....just that the quotes doesn't look honest/relevant in this article.... -
I am not familiar with this topic. *paiseh*Originally posted by laoda99:mebbe u can explain since u are RC
the quotes used by this article regarding iconclasm.......is not really relevant....and in a sense....dishonest in my view......
dun get me wrong....i love the vatican exhibits.....just that the quotes doesn't look honest/relevant in this article.... -
Haiyah! You should have stayed longer at Vespers that day! One of our Orthodox friends brought a laptop... and he made a video on Icons!!!Originally posted by ObiterDicta:Then maybe you find a Russian/Greek Orthodox person to explain lor.
They are the masters of icon making. Very nice ones indeed.
obiterdicta
You should have seen it... -
really meh?Originally posted by ObiterDicta:I am not familiar with this topic. *paiseh*
how abt the verses used? are u familiar? does it really support the making of symbols of Christ?
I ask u becoz u quoted many articles from this website. The articles should be reliable in your opinion right? -
Catholic Answers have people who are a lot more competent than I.Originally posted by laoda99:really meh?
how abt the verses used? are u familiar? does it really support the making of symbols of Christ?
I ask u becoz u quoted many articles from this website. The articles should be reliable in your opinion right? -
Too bad lah.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Haiyah! You should have stayed longer at Vespers that day! One of our Orthodox friends brought a laptop... and he made a video on Icons!!!
You should have seen it...
The room was so cold that my butt was frozen and I was also very hungry, not having had dinner before the service.
obiterdicta -
Let us just read Num. 21:8–9 with John 3:14 which the author claim is supportive of making symbols of christ. is it really relevant?Originally posted by ObiterDicta:Catholic Answers have people who are a lot more competent than I.
Num. 21:8–9
8 The LORD said to Moses, "Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live." 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, he lived.
John 3:14
14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, -
Come for the Mass on the 22nd. I'm servingOriginally posted by ObiterDicta:Too bad lah.
The room was so cold that my butt was frozen and I was also very hungry, not having had dinner before the service.
obiterdicta -
Here's an article on the theology of icons from a Byzantine perspective:
http://www.traditionaliconography.com/theology.asp -
Doesn't this sound familiar?Originally posted by laoda99:Let us just read Num. 21:8–9 with John 3:14 which the author claim is supportive of making symbols of christ. is it really relevant?
Num. 21:8–9
8 The LORD said to Moses, "Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live." 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, he lived.
John 3:14
14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
-
Isnt that symbol representative of Aesealapins, Greek god of medicine?
SAF Medical Corp symbol
hurhur -
icons are not reliable.
take serpent for example, it can represent medicine, wisdom, satan and god-knows-wad. -
yah .. so either Moses is pagan or pagans are Hebrew.Originally posted by laurence82:Isnt that symbol representative of Aesealapins, Greek god of medicine?
SAF Medical Corp symbol
hurhur -
ah ha!Originally posted by Icemoon:yah .. so either Moses is pagan or pagans are Hebrew.
Satan is good at counterfeits!!!!!!!! -
....Originally posted by laoda99:ah ha!
Satan is good at counterfeits!!!!!!!!
mix up liao -
Wow...Originally posted by laoda99:I find the verses quoted in this link is not relevant in supporting the author's views regarding icons.
http://www.catholic.com/library/Great_Heresies.asp
Iconoclasm (7th and 8th Centuries)
This heresy arose when a group of people known as iconoclasts (literally, "icon smashers") appeared, who claimed that it was sinful to make pictures and statues of Christ and the saints, despite the fact that in the Bible, God had commanded the making of religious statues (Ex. 25:18–20; 1 Chr. 28:18–19), including symbolic representations of Christ (cf. Num. 21:8–9 with John 3:14).
does this place reflect the offical views of the Roman Catholic Church?
cause further down from this in the same page, almost all prostestant churches are considered/implicated in the list of heretics
Protestantism (16th Century)
Protestant groups display a wide variety of different doctrines. However, virtually all claim to believe in the teachings of sola scriptura ("by Scripture alone"—the idea that we must use only the Bible when forming our theology) and sola fide ("by faith alone"— the idea that we are justified by faith only).
The great diversity of Protestant doctrines stems from the doctrine of private judgment, which denies the infallible authority of the Church and claims that each individual is to interpret Scripture for himself. This idea is rejected in 2 Peter 1:20, where we are told the first rule of Bible interpretation: "First of all you must understand this, that no prophecy of Scripture is a matter of oneÂ’s own interpretation." A significant feature of this heresy is the attempt to pit the Church "against" the Bible, denying that the magisterium has any infallible authority to teach and interpret Scripture.
The doctrine of private judgment has resulted in an enormous number of different denominations. According to The Christian Sourcebook, there are approximately 20-30,000 denominations, with 270 new ones being formed each year. Virtually all of these are Protestant. -
is it new?Originally posted by vince69:cause further down from this in the same page, almost all prostestant churches are considered/implicated in the list of heretics
it has been liddat since the Reformation. -
I know it was like this back then, one of the thing is that back then the literacy rate is very low, but what I am curious about is, Is this still the offical stand of the Roman Catholic Church on the subject thatOriginally posted by Icemoon:is it new?
it has been liddat since the Reformation.
1) Individuals are not to interpret the Bible on their own
2) Individuals are not to question the Church's teaching -
Originally posted by vince69:
Err, that's why we excommunicated Luther, and burnt his predecessors.
Wow...
does this place reflect the offical views of the Roman Catholic Church?
Shocked
cause further down from this in the same page, almost all prostestant churches are considered/implicated in the list of heretics Sad
If not burn people for fun meh... -
ok... thats history, right,Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Err, that's why we excommunicated Luther, and burnt his predecessors.
If not burn people for fun meh...
question is are the 2 "thou shall not" still enforced today? as in lay people is not allow to interpret the Bible and also cannot question the teaching of the Church.
Thanks for clarifications
* This is a serious question, and not a joke. -
If everybody has his own interpretation, there will be thousands of permutations of them. Which one is the correct interpretation then?Originally posted by vince69:ok... thats history, right,
question is are the 2 "thou shall not" still enforced today? as in lay people is not allow to interpret the Bible and also cannot question the teaching of the Church.
Thanks for clarifications
* This is a serious question, and not a joke. -
The protestants as heresy ones i am not surprised....but I am more against the verses quoted in support of symbols for Christ......the verses quoted are not relevant at all.....Originally posted by vince69: