The blogger Char investigated by police said this
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im not promoting "true satanism". rather im speaking in defence of other religions often mistakenly classed as satanic. Afterall, Wicca and Paganism have actually been around much longer than Satanism has. I think they deserve to be respected as individual religions.[/b]
Ah, right. Of course Wicca and "Paganism" aren't satanic. But IIRC modern Wicca/Paganism are revivals of the old folk religions, rather than being contiguous with them, no?
Also, what's Satanic depends on your definition of Satan - remember Khomeini called the US the Great Satan and Israel the Lesser Satan.by the way, wondering if u want to read more about the Albigensian Crusade. I found it particularly barbaric as... well... its one thing to hold a crusade against people of other religions, its another to hold one against your fellow xtians...
Yeah, I know about the Albigensian Crusade. Internecine conflict is a staple of history.
also, what is very galling... is that the true purpose of the Crusaders were not so much religious as it was territory expansionary...
This proves that much of the evil attributed to religion arises from socio-political causes.The reason such atrocities happen is because people cling on to beliefs even when the beliefs become internally incoherent.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
To assuage their own doubts, they have to remove all those who point out the incoherences. -
When Jesus put doubts into the minds of the Jews, they crucified Him.
When "others" put doubts into the minds of some Christians, they "crucifiy" them.
What is the correct response when people put doubt into your minds? Crucify, torture, insult and make false witness against them?
Let those who have ears, hear. -
I do think they're not revivals. There might have been times when the number of followers have dwindled, but I do belive it's been passed on properly.Originally posted by gssq:Ah, right. Of course Wicca and "Paganism" aren't satanic. But IIRC modern Wicca/Paganism are revivals of the old folk religions, rather than being contiguous with them, no?
Also, what's Satanic depends on your definition of Satan - remember Khomeini called the US the Great Satan and Israel the Lesser Satan
AS for Satanism, well..... I don't think Khomeini actually believes them to be Satan. What he is trying to do is to "motivate" his people and give them something larger to unite against, instead of as a nation against a nation, as a religion against "evil" -
I do think they're not revivals. There might have been times when the number of followers have dwindled, but I do belive it's been passed on properly.
Well the very name "paganism" is silly. Real "pagans" never called themselves such - a pagan exists only in a dichotomy with a Christian. In fact "pagan" was a derogatory term applied by Christians to "pagans". Then again Yankee Doodle did originate as a insult to the Americans, but I digress.
Frankly, I get the impression most current Wiccans/Pagans are just kids playing at something.
As for it being a revival, see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicca for the 20th century revival.AS for Satanism, well..... I don't think Khomeini actually believes them to be Satan. What he is trying to do is to "motivate" his people and give them something larger to unite against, instead of as a nation against a nation, as a religion against "evil"
D'oh! I was being sarcastic. nevermind. -
Cathars hold beliefs that are gnostic and not similiar in any way to modern day protestanism.Originally posted by HENG@:Note that Cathars and catharism is a form of christianity considered heretical. They hold similiar beliefs to modern day protestanism. -
Somehow, the typical fundamentalist who would love to slap the label of simplicity and sedition on anything that moves, usually cannot comprehend the wide latitude of debate that an offensive line or image is found within the context of this larger intellectual debate.
What to do, common sense and depth of thought is not common here.
Sometimes, self-preservation becomes self-censorship because of a fear of society by police proxy, as quoted earlier in the thread. Fine, let's keep quiet.
All we want is peace and for everyone to get along. -
A peripherally related point:Originally posted by LazerLordz:Somehow, the typical fundamentalist who would love to slap the label of simplicity and sedition on anything that moves, usually cannot comprehend the wide latitude of debate that an offensive line or image is found within the context of this larger intellectual debate.
Caravaggio's "The Supper at Emmaus" offended people because he depicted saints as ordinary people. It's lucky these people who took offence did not mutilate or destroy the painting, since now another interpretation is that this prosaic quality allows a contrast with the ethereal figure of Christ. -
True, there are those who would love to slap the label of simplicity and sedition on anything that moves.Originally posted by LazerLordz:Somehow, the typical fundamentalist who would love to slap the label of simplicity and sedition on anything that moves, usually cannot comprehend the wide latitude of debate that an offensive line or image is found within the context of this larger intellectual debate.
What to do, common sense and depth of thought is not common here.
Sometimes, self-preservation becomes self-censorship because of a fear of society by police proxy, as quoted earlier in the thread. Fine, let's keep quiet.
All we want is peace and for everyone to get along.
On the other hand, there are also folks who loves to hide behind the so called Freedom of Expressions and utterly refused to take the Responsibilities that comes with this freedom.
cheers. -
thats not very fairOriginally posted by gssq:Frankly, I get the impression most current Wiccans/Pagans are just kids playing at something.
many of them actually have a deep understanding of it.
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oh ok. good excuse to kill them and kill catholic christians who lived with them then.Originally posted by laoda99:Cathars hold beliefs that are gnostic and not similiar in any way to modern day protestanism. -
a nice example being the Xtian orientated dutch paper who PURPOSELY posted the mohammed cartoon to provoke muslims. It seems the one point everyone overlooked is that the same newspaper condemns all cartoons making fun of Xtianity, and yet happily in an amazing display of double standards published something they shouldn't in an intentional act of provocation.Originally posted by vince69:On the other hand, there are also folks who loves to hide behind the so called Freedom of Expressions and utterly refused to take the Responsibilities that comes with this freedom.
cheers. -
Originally posted by HENG@:oh ok. good excuse to kill them and kill catholic christians who lived with them then.
Dun be angry la....just want to point out where u said wrongly
Anyway, Cathars believe the body is evil and as a result they dun conceive. They would have died out naturally. -
are u angry with fundies or xtians?Originally posted by HENG@:a nice example being the Xtian orientated dutch paper who PURPOSELY posted the mohammed cartoon to provoke muslims. It seems the one point everyone overlooked is that the same newspaper condemns all cartoons making fun of Xtianity, and yet happily in an amazing display of double standards published something they shouldn't in an intentional act of provocation. -
The Rennaissance works were seen as crass by their contemporaries, but only today we see the value in their antiquity. History and memory gain differing significance and apply differing levels of value to artifacts ove time.Originally posted by gssq:A peripherally related point:
Caravaggio's "The Supper at Emmaus" offended people because he depicted saints as ordinary people. It's lucky these people who took offence did not mutilate or destroy the painting, since now another interpretation is that this prosaic quality allows a contrast with the ethereal figure of Christ. -
There are fundamentalists in every Religion, just to make my point and fundamentalists are out to seek divisions in order to draw more crowds towards them.Originally posted by laoda99:are u angry with fundies or xtians?
Analogously speaking, the state of war in the Middle East can be partly attributed to the Right-Wing Christian Republican support from Jerry Falwell and his ilk, as is the massivce insurgency of 2004/2005 which is fueled by a patchwork of Muslim fundamentalists not limited to Al-Qaeda in Iraq, the earlier days of Moqtada Al-Sadr and his Mahdi Army and the Iranian funded Shi'ite brigades operating under the guise of the ING (Iraqi National Guard).
In fact, the List Party of Alawi and Maliki was the only grouping which was broad-minded enough to garner enough personnel to man the new Parliament, instead of the Shi'ites who insisted on fighting their own war and skipping the political process entirely until the end of 2005.
Even the IRA had twin wings of political engagement and bloody murder in the streets of Cork and Dublin.
Now many might see me as going OT, but I'm just painting (no pun intended) a picture of the fallacy of extremism as a tool to achieve long term aims. -
If u look at the local church scene....fundies are losing influence, while the new liberal megachurches are gaining......
Originally posted by LazerLordz:
[b] There are fundamentalists in every Religion, just to make my point.
All fundamentalists are out to seek divisions in order to draw more crowds towards them. The state of war in the Middle East can be partly attributed to the Right-Wing Christian Republican support from Jerry Falwell and his ilk, as is the massivce insurgency of 2004/2005 which is fueled by a patchwork of Muslim fundamentalists not limited to Al-Qaeda in Iraq, the earlier days of Moqtada Al-Sadr and his Mahdi Army and the Iranian funded Shi'ite brigades operating under the guise of the ING (Iraqi National Guard).
In fact, the List Party of Alawi and Maliki was the only grouping which was broad-minded enough to garner enough personnel to man the new Parliament, instead of the Shi'ites who insisted on fighting their own war and skipping the political process entirely until the end of 2005.
Even the IRA had twin wings of political engagement and bloody murder in the streets of Cork and Dublin.
Now many might see me as going OT, but I'm just painting (no pun intended) a picture of the fallacy of extremism as a tool to achieve long term aims. [/b] -
Our local church scene is but a drop of water in the larger context of the world. What is happening elsewhere is capable of influencing our little nation, so we still have to be on guard.Originally posted by laoda99:If u look at the local church scene....fundies are losing influence, while the new liberal megachurches are gaining......
I would say that we might be on the similar path as Australia's mainstream Christian communities? -
Originally posted by gssq:
quote:The reason such atrocities happen is because people cling on to beliefs even when the beliefs become internally incoherent.
To assuage their own doubts, they have to remove all those who point out the incoherences.Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire -
hmmm...wat is the path taken by aussie?Originally posted by LazerLordz:Our local church scene is but a drop of water in the larger context of the world. What is happening elsewhere is capable of influencing our little nation, so we still have to be on guard.
I would say that we might be on the similar path as Australia's mainstream Christian communities? -
thats bull. more xtian propaganda?Originally posted by laoda99: Dun be angry la....just want to point out where u said wrongly
Anyway, Cathars believe the body is evil and as a result they dun conceive. They would have died out naturally.
the main belief of the cathars is that u dun need to go thru the church and the clergy to have a relationship with God. thats the only reason the church wanted to kill them off. -
with regards to the megachurches etc.Originally posted by laoda99:hmmm...wat is the path taken by aussie? -
angry with fundie xtians.Originally posted by laoda99:are u angry with fundies or xtians? -
To Lazerlord,
And in case u think fundies in Sg are drawing more crowds, I think they prefer to practise bible separation from u and me. To me, this is isolation, not drawing crowds.
And if I am not wrong, some fundie churches are moving towards ecumenism/liberalism. So fundie is actually going down, not up in sg. -
I believe this.Originally posted by casino_king:Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
The ultimate destination of this path = crime by state proxy due to a deep-seated sense of fear and frustration, weeds out the ones who dare to stand up. Those who perform and practise blind obedience and subervience will not suffer.
It's not something easy to comprehend before lunch. -
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they are drawing the crowds.Originally posted by laoda99:To Lazerlord,
And in case u think fundies in Sg are drawing more crowds, I think they prefer to practise bible separation from u and me. To me, this is isolation, not drawing crowds.
And if I am not wrong, some fundie churches are moving towards ecumenism/liberalism. So fundie is actually going down, not up in sg.
I'm merely saying that anything can happen and we still have to be on our guard. One fundamentalist who wants to hammer anyone, and is in a multi-faceted position to do so, is like the return of the Inquisition. And frankly, those fundamentalists are not part of mainstream Christianity or one that seeks to further inter-faith dialogue and community peace-hood. Therefore, we should guard against them.