RC stance on bible
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Recently, I read a book on Roman Catholic history. According to the author, the 1962 Vatican II decreed that the only thing that is guaranteed correct in the bible is Christ came to die for us and he is God.
Is this true? -
can't be true.Originally posted by laoda99:Recently, I read a book on Roman Catholic history. According to the author, the 1962 Vatican II decreed that the only thing that is guaranteed correct in the bible is Christ came to die for us and he is God.
Is this true?
if Peter as keyholder cannot be confirmed, where lies the authority of the Pope and Vatican II? -
sounds true...Originally posted by Icemoon:can't be true.
if Peter as keyholder cannot be confirmed, where lies the authority of the Pope and Vatican II?
but the book says: It doesn't matter if Christ has 12 apostles or 120 apostles.
Hey...anyone can confirm, the list of apostles is different from each gospel? -
what book is that? got imprimatur or not?Originally posted by laoda99:Recently, I read a book on Roman Catholic history. According to the author, the 1962 Vatican II decreed that the only thing that is guaranteed correct in the bible is Christ came to die for us and he is God.
Is this true? -
Title is Key Moments in Church History: A concise introduction to the catholic churchOriginally posted by SingaporeMacross:what book is that? got imprimatur or not?
by Mitch Finley
He holds a M.A. in thelogy from Marquette University and is a catholic.
What is imprimatur? -
Firstly, who is the author of that book and which document of the 2nd Vatican Council was his/she referring to?Originally posted by laoda99:Recently, I read a book on Roman Catholic history. According to the author, the 1962 Vatican II decreed that the only thing that is guaranteed correct in the bible is Christ came to die for us and he is God.
Is this true?
And what does 'guaranteed correct' mean? Correctness in the theological sense, philosophical sense, historical sense, scientific sense, or what?
regards,
obiterdicta -
The author of the book is one mitch finleyOriginally posted by ObiterDicta:Firstly, who is the author of that book and which document of the 2nd Vatican Council was his/she referring to?
And what does 'guaranteed correct' mean? Correctness in the theological sense, philosophical sense, historical sense, scientific sense, or what?
regards,
obiterdicta
Title is Key Moments in Church History: A concise introduction to the catholic church
He holds a M.A. in thelogy from Marquette University and is a catholic.
let me quote for u page 4:
As the second vatican council's document on divine revelation declares, the only material in the bible tat is guaranteed to be without error is the information that is "necessary for our salvation." Whether Jesus had 12 disciples or twelve hundred is irrevelant to our salvation. That Jesus died and was raised from the dead is, however, "neccessary for our salvation" (Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation). -
Mitch Finley is a dissenting Catholic who is trying to water down Catholic teachings. I would not consider his views as being representative of the official view of the Catholic Church.Originally posted by laoda99:The author of the book is one mitch finley
let me quote for u page 4:
As the second vatican council's document on divine revelation declares, the only material in the bible tat is guaranteed to be without error is the information that is "necessary for our salvation." Whether Jesus had 12 disciples or twelve hundred is irrevelant to our salvation. That Jesus died and was raised from the dead is, however, 'neccessary for our salvation" (Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation).
He is trying to cast a large swathe of Catholic teachings as 'non-essential' so justify why people like him do not need to obey those teachings.
As for the Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation, I'll do more research and then get back to you.
regards,
obiterdicta -
Dun think he is dissenting, but he is definitely a liberal.Originally posted by ObiterDicta:Mitch Finley is a dissenting Catholic who is trying to water down Catholic teachings. I would not consider his views as being representative of the official view of the Catholic Church.
He is trying to cast a large swathe of Catholic teachings as 'non-essential' so justify why people like him do not need to obey those teachings.
As for the Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation, I'll do more research and then get back to you.
regards,
obiterdicta
The last page clearly shows his love for catholic church:
Catholics love being catholic, and they love their church. Most wouldn't give up on being Catholic for anything. Therefore, the Catholic Church is alive and has a lively future, a future that will bring what the future will bring. For now the church is thriving with never a dull moment. -
You can judge the document (Latin name Dei Verbum) for yourself:Originally posted by laoda99:As the second vatican council's document on divine revelation declares, the only material in the bible tat is guaranteed to be without error is the information that is "necessary for our salvation." Whether Jesus had 12 disciples or twelve hundred is irrevelant to our salvation. That Jesus died and was raised from the dead is, however, "neccessary for our salvation" (Dogmatic Constitution on Divine Revelation).
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19651118_dei-verbum_en.html
Go to Chapter III, sections 11 - 13.
Basically, it says that since all of Scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit, then all the books of Scripture are without error. However, since human instruments were used on the writings, attention must be paid to the style of writing as well as their context.
So, Mitch Finley is either purposefully misrepresenting Dei Verbum or he has not read it properly and is talking crap.
regards,
obiterdicta -
Haha, you are not Catholic, so it's harder for you to 'smell' a dissenter.Originally posted by laoda99:Dun think he is dissenting, but he is definitely a liberal.
The last page clearly shows his love for catholic church:
Catholics love being catholic, and they love their church. Most wouldn't give up on being Catholic for anything. Therefore, the Catholic Church is alive and has a lively future, a future that will bring what the future will bring. For now the church is thriving with never a dull moment.
We define 'dissenting' as those Catholics who refuse to accept completely the teachings of the Church in areas which the Church itself has declared as being essential to our salvation.
If you ask dissenters, they will tell you in no uncertain terms that they are 100% Catholic. But then the issue is this: by whose standards? In the Catholic world, there exists an objective standard. We call it the Magisterium of the Church. Dissenters can continue in their misguided beliefs. The rest of us who struggle honestly through our human imperfections to follow the commands of Christ (rather than rationalising them away as non-essentials) will continue to pray for them.
regards,
obiterdicta -
Thanks for pointing out his mistake.Originally posted by ObiterDicta:You can judge the document (Latin name Dei Verbum) for yourself:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19651118_dei-verbum_en.html
Go to Chapter III, sections 11 - 13.
Basically, it says that since all of Scripture is inspired by the Holy Spirit, then all the books of Scripture are without error. However, since human instruments were used on the writings, attention must be paid to the style of writing as well as their context.
So, Mitch Finley is either purposefully misrepresenting Dei Verbum or he has not read it properly and is talking crap.
regards,
obiterdicta
I think he is talking crap haha.... -
luckily you asked.Originally posted by laoda99:Thanks for pointing out his mistake.
I think he is talking crap haha....
what a wonderful forum.
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yeah....we need such pple around in forumOriginally posted by Icemoon:luckily you asked.
what a wonderful forum.
just in case something we read is controversial.... -
An Imprimatur is a signature from ecclesiastical authority that a certain book does not contradict the teachings of the Church.Originally posted by laoda99:Title is Key Moments in Church History: A concise introduction to the catholic church
by Mitch Finley
He holds a M.A. in thelogy from Marquette University and is a catholic.
What is imprimatur?
Religious Superior's stamp: IMPRIMI POTEST "it can be printed"
Censor's stamp: NIHIL OBSTAT "nothing stands in the way"
Bishop's stamp: IMPRIMATUR "let it be printed" -
why are there different topics on the same thing : Roman Catholic Church.
very waste of space leh -
cause its a hot topic mah...Originally posted by Honeybunz:why are there different topics on the same thing : Roman Catholic Church.
very waste of space leh
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yeah...must know more abt RC faithOriginally posted by vince69:cause its a hot topic mah...
unker vince! so are we changing benue? -
wrong place lah. back to the correct topic we discuss there.Originally posted by laoda99:yeah...must know more abt RC faith
unker vince! so are we changing benue? -
ok!!!Originally posted by vince69:wrong place lah. back to the correct topic we discuss there. -
but that is a secular book .. so why need signature from ecclesiastical authority?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:An Imprimatur is a signature from ecclesiastical authority that a certain book does not contradict the teachings of the Church.
Religious Superior's stamp: IMPRIMI POTEST "it can be printed"
Censor's stamp: NIHIL OBSTAT "nothing stands in the way"
Bishop's stamp: IMPRIMATUR "let it be printed"