Need some clarifications / advice from Christians
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Sorry I was busy, just logged-in and saw a lot of PMs. Thanks to all who replied.Originally posted by davidche:Can i know where is the Original Thread starter? he shouldnt just abandon the thread like this, irresponsible!
See that the thread has gone OT quite a bit. I realise that there is a difference between the way christians and non-christians view things (from a freethinker point of view). Perhaps that is the reason why some dun see eye to eye.
Maybe let me just share my experience:
Christians:
Believe in the presence of God;
Believe that the bible is true and that it is the word of God;
Believe that the bible is true (cos it is the word of God) then study the bible to comprehend the facts in it.
(Eg. For me, I've been to NCC. If I were to convert then, I would first be a christian, believe that God exists, and thus that the bible is true as it is the word of God, then study it. That is why I am still a freethinker because I require facts/scientific reasoning before I am convinced, thus my questions here).
Non-christians (a generalisation here that may be incomplete):
May believe that there is no god;
May believe that there is God but in other religions;
May be born to believe in a religion;
May be a freethinker;
May convert to christianity if they are convinced;
May need convincing of facts in the bible and religion first before believing that it is the word of God, as there are also facts in their own beliefs (could be self-beliefs or religious beliefs). This is because Christianity encompasses a lot of bible study and the sermons often use quotes from the bible. If I don't believe in the bible it is difficult to believe in God in the Chistianity context.
I have received a lot of PMs on attending courses and attending the study groups. However, I have some responding that they are also not quite sure abt the bible itself. I had expected a brief but clear outline abt the answers but I am sorry I remain unconvinced with some of the responses. I often feel that facts of life are made to fit into the bible and explain it than having the bible with clear facts to convince us. This is my personal belief and I understand that christians may have a different view on this. -
Originally posted by asimplelife:
The bible is simply a book. What sort of book is it? A book listing down some people's experiences of God.
Sorry I was busy, just logged-in and saw a lot of PMs. Thanks to all who replied.
See that the thread has gone OT quite a bit. I realise that there is a difference between the way christians and non-christians view things (from a freethinker point of view). Perhaps that is the reason why some dun see eye to eye.
Maybe let me just share my experience:
[b]Christians:
Believe in the presence of God;
Believe that the bible is true and that it is the word of God;
Believe that the bible is true (cos it is the word of God) then study the bible to comprehend the facts in it.
(Eg. For me, I've been to NCC. If I were to convert then, I would first be a christian, believe that God exists, and thus that the bible is true as it is the word of God, then study it. That is why I am still a freethinker because I require facts/scientific reasoning before I am convinced, thus my questions here).
Non-christians (a generalisation here that may be incomplete):
May believe that there is no god;
May believe that there is God but in other religions;
May be born to believe in a religion;
May be a freethinker;
May convert to christianity if they are convinced;
May need convincing of facts in the bible and religion first before believing that it is the word of God, as there are also facts in their own beliefs (could be self-beliefs or religious beliefs). This is because Christianity encompasses a lot of bible study and the sermons often use quotes from the bible. If I don't believe in the bible it is difficult to believe in God in the Chistianity context.
I have received a lot of PMs on attending courses and attending the study groups. However, I have some responding that they are also not quite sure abt the bible itself. I had expected a brief but clear outline abt the answers but I am sorry I remain unconvinced with some of the responses. I often feel that facts of life are made to fit into the bible and explain it than having the bible with clear facts to convince us. This is my personal belief and I understand that christians may have a different view on this.
[/b]
What you need is your own experience with God. There is only one God. You need not fear; many who called out to God and to whom God responded will tell you that God is not going to harm you when you call out to Him.
Search your own heart and ask yourself what is preventing you from calling out, asking God to talk to you? -
An example of a a different perception:
On my question on: Did God create dinosaurs? Was it mentioned in the bible clearly that he did?
Response on a PM: Firstly, You have to actknowledge that this dinosaur thing is all about science. Science is merely an idea that hasnt been 'overthrown' You know there r some old theorys in the past rite, then they were proven all fake. so....
Secondly, Gods knowledge and wisdom is far more and beyond from wad we think. so maybe God simply hasnt revealed the truth yet or doesnt plan to at all, i cant decide for God.
Christian: The bible is true, so science is flawed because it doesn't represent facts in the bible.
Non-christian: Science has shown us dinosaur bones and how deep they are buried. Fosils dated back to millions of years have also been discovered (the measurement of time is simulated based on today's facts). -
The one who writes about his experience with God is not too worried about the questions of science and dinosaurs is he? He will only put in enough for him to tell his story, his understanding of and his experiences with God.Originally posted by asimplelife:An example of a a different perception:
On my question on: Did God create dinosaurs? Was it mentioned in the bible clearly that he did?
Response on a PM: Firstly, You have to actknowledge that this dinosaur thing is all about science. Science is merely an idea that hasnt been 'overthrown' You know there r some old theorys in the past rite, then they were proven all fake. so....
Secondly, Gods knowledge and wisdom is far more and beyond from wad we think. so maybe God simply hasnt revealed the truth yet or doesnt plan to at all, i cant decide for God.
Christian: The bible is true, so science is flawed because it doesn't represent facts in the bible.
Non-christian: Science has shown us dinosaur bones and how deep they are buried. Fosils dated back to millions of years have also been discovered (the measurement of time is simulated based on today's facts).
The writer who is writing a science text book is not going to write about God in his dinosaur book is he? Because he did not mention God in his science text book on dinosaur, you cannot believe his book on dinosaurs? -
Originally posted by asimplelife:
I often feel that facts of life are made to fit into the bible and explain it than having the bible with clear facts to convince us. This is my personal belief and I understand that christians may have a different view on this.
hmmm...care to elaborate? -
Dinosaurs are quoted in the bible. Are you aware?Originally posted by casino_king:The one who writes about his experience with God is not too worried about the question of science and dinosaurs is he? He will only put in enough for him to tell his story, his understanding and his experiences with God.
The writer who is writing a science text book is not going to write about God in his dinosaur book is he? Because he did not metion God in his science text book on dinosaur, you cannot believe his book on dinosaurs?
God created everything in 7 days and dinosaurs seemed to have existed with man during creation.
Why do we not find bones of cats and dogs (or other animals) with dinosaur fossils when they were created at the same time?
Laoda: To elaborate, I shall give an example. Say on creation, we believe that the world only existed for thousands of years because the bible said so. But scientists have indicated that the world lasted for billions of years after the big bang, with simulations done of real-life examples.
Why reject science, when all the evidence is there? The bible was written long ago by men who may not be aware that dinosaurs existed so long ago, could that have affected the representation in the bible? -
Hmm...I dun think the bible got say the world only existed for thousands of years. Can u find me any verse which support ur claim?Originally posted by asimplelife:Dinosaurs are quoted in the bible. Are you aware?
God created everything in 7 days and dinosaurs seemed to have existed with man during creation.
Why do we not find bones of cats and dogs (or other animals) with dinosaur fossils when they were created at the same time?
Laoda: To elaborate, I shall give an example. Say on creation, we believe that the world only existed for thousands of years because the bible said so. But scientists have indicated that the world lasted for billions of years after the big bang, with simulations done of real-life examples.
Why reject science, when all the evidence is there? The bible was written long ago by men who may not be aware that dinosaurs existed so long ago, could that have affected the representation in the bible?
I think this time CK should be credited by giving u a good answer above abt why dinosaurs are not mentioned.
And I dun think Christianity reject science totally, except the parts where evolution is concerned. -
That's what my christian fren told me lah, I try to verify with him. I could be wrong.Originally posted by laoda99:Hmm...I dun think the bible got say the world only existed for thousands of years. Can u find me any verse which support ur claim?
I think this time CK should be credited by giving u a good answer above abt why dinosaurs are not mentioned.
And I dun think Christianity reject science in any way. -
Like I said, the bible is not a science text book on dinosaurs and even if dinosaurs are mentioned, it would be mentioned in passing and not relevant information for a study of science.Originally posted by asimplelife:Dinosaurs are quoted in the bible. Are you aware?
God created everything in 7 days and dinosaurs seemed to have existed with man during creation.
Why do we not find bones of cats and dogs (or other animals) with dinosaur fossils when they were created at the same time?
The writer was not talking about dinosaurs. What was the writer talking about when he wrote that passage with reference to dinosuars?
His personal experiences with and understanding of God.
When the writer wrote about the creation of the universe in 7 days, what was the point of his story? To write a book on science like Hawkings' A Brief History of Time?
Of course not. He was writing about YOU! Why you do not know God. You want to be like God. You do not want to be a mere man.
Well, surprise, surprise... no matter how much you want to be God, you are a mere man. -
tats why i ask u to go stephen tong's sermons on difficult passages in the bible.Originally posted by asimplelife:That's what my christian fren told me lah, I try to verify with him. I could be wrong.
He did not reject the possibility that earth is millions of yrs. -
The PM did not even attempt to answer the question.Originally posted by asimplelife:An example of a a different perception:
On my question on: Did God create dinosaurs? Was it mentioned in the bible clearly that he did?
Response on a PM: Firstly, You have to actknowledge that this dinosaur thing is all about science. Science is merely an idea that hasnt been 'overthrown' You know there r some old theorys in the past rite, then they were proven all fake. so....
Secondly, Gods knowledge and wisdom is far more and beyond from wad we think. so maybe God simply hasnt revealed the truth yet or doesnt plan to at all, i cant decide for God.
Zero marks. -
how come you know?Originally posted by laoda99:He did not reject the possibility that earth is millions of yrs.
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Can you try to explain why bones of cats and dogs (and other animals) were not found with the fossils and bones of dinosaurs then? Since they were created together by God in 7 days?Originally posted by laoda99:Hmm...I dun think the bible got say the world only existed for thousands of years. Can u find me any verse which support ur claim?
I think this time CK should be credited by giving u a good answer above abt why dinosaurs are not mentioned.
And I dun think Christianity reject science totally, except the parts where evolution is concerned. -
Please see: How old is the earth according to the Bible?Originally posted by laoda99:Hmm...I dun think the bible got say the world only existed for thousands of years. Can u find me any verse which support ur claim?
http://www.users.bigpond.com/rdoolan/earthsage.html -
Yes.Originally posted by asimplelife:An example of a a different perception:
On my question on: Did God create dinosaurs? Was it mentioned in the bible clearly that he did?
One of the issues about reading the Bible is to understand the style of writings of the 66 books. Some books are historical in nature, others are more imagery. Some are letters to individuals or groups, while others are narrative stories....
This is not the first time on whether Genesis was written as a detailed chronological account of creation, or perhaps as a summary of what had taken place over a long period of time.
I guess those reading Genesis are broken into two camps of old earth and new earth.
My personal perspective is that the world is very very old (as can be seen from archaelogical discovery), the creation account may have taken millions of years. The fact that in Genesis, the word "DAY" is used does not invalidate the account. The thing to take away from the creation of Genesis is the creation process, where the "days" of creation makes complete sense scientifically. -
How did you come to conclude that the 7 days was seven revolutions of the earth around its own axis?Originally posted by asimplelife:Can you try to explain why bones of cats and dogs (and other animals) were not found with the fossils and bones of dinosaurs then? Since they were created together by God in 7 days?
3 God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.
4 God saw the light, and saw that it was good. God divided the light from the darkness.
5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." There was evening and there was morning, one day.
At this point in time, the earth was not even created. God only created the elements that would be the basis for everything else.
Why light? Because as we now know from science, within sub atomic particles is nothing! We are all formed from "nothing." We are all formed from "light." The trees, the dinosaur, the car that you drive, the sun in the sky... you break it down to its most basic, you get "nothing," you get "light," "energy!"
That is a diversion.
Like I said. The physical earth was not even formed at that point in time and yet the words used was "one day." This one day clearly is not the rotation of the earth on its own axis, the one day as we understand it.
If you like you can go to any church, Roman Catholic or Evangelical and learn about other people's experiences with and understanding of God. Ultimately, you still need to have your own experiences with God. It will be an experience that will last for eternity if you acknowledge that you are mere man and as a mere man, you have no choice but to depend fully and solely on God. -
I'd say that animals adapt and change their form considerably. I am quite sure that the cats and dogs that we know do not exist in those days. Evolution is a "bad" word among churches, and has been debated many times even here in EH, but fact remains that every living thing adapt to their environment. So where species are concern, the animals that we see in the zoo probably do no exists in prehistoric times..... except for maybe the cockroaches and the sharks.Originally posted by asimplelife:Can you try to explain why bones of cats and dogs (and other animals) were not found with the fossils and bones of dinosaurs then? Since they were created together by God in 7 days?
this link is an example of those who subscribe to the "new earth" theory. I won't go into the debate as to who's right and who's wrong, but merely point to the different opinions that exist.Originally posted by asimplelife:Please see: How old is the earth according to the Bible?
http://www.users.bigpond.com/rdoolan/earthsage.html -
Originally posted by asimplelife:
Hello? Anybody home?
[b]... -
Let me answer on his behalfOriginally posted by laoda99:Hmm...I dun think the bible got say the world only existed for thousands of years. Can u find me any verse which support ur claim?
I think this time CK should be credited by giving u a good answer above abt why dinosaurs are not mentioned.
And I dun think Christianity reject science totally, except the parts where evolution is concerned.
In the Bible, in Job 40:15-24, God describes to Job (who lived after the Flood) a great beast with which Job was familiar. This great animal, called ‘behemoth,’ is described as ‘the chief of the ways of God,’ perhaps the biggest land animal God had created. Impressively, he moved his tail like a cedar tree! Although some Bible commentaries say this may have been an elephant or hippopotamus, the description actually fits that of a dinosaur like Brachiosaurus. Elephants and hippos certainly do not have tails like cedar trees!
A key phrase is “He is the first of the ways of God.” This phrase in the original Hebrew implied that behemoth was the biggest animal created
Behemoth has the following attributes according to Job 40:15-24
* It “eats grass like an ox.”
* It “moves his tail like a cedar.” (In Hebrew, this literally reads, “he lets hang his tail like a cedar.”)
* Its “bones are like beams of bronze,
His ribs like bars of iron.”
* “He is the first of the ways of God.”
* “He lies under the lotus trees,
In a covert of reeds and marsh.”
another one:Leviathan has the following attributes according to Job chapter 41, Psalm 104:25,26 and Isaiah 27:1
Leviathan is a “reptile [a] that is in the sea.” (Isaiah 27:1)
source :
Dinosaurs and the Bible -
my apology for cutting on the your post, just want to address a few points in this.Originally posted by asimplelife:Sorry I was busy, just logged-in and saw a lot of PMs. Thanks to all who replied.
its ok, we are all busy, there is no need worry about this.
(Eg. For me, I've been to NCC. If I were to convert then, I would first be a christian, believe that God exists, and thus that the bible is true as it is the word of God, then study it. That is why I am still a freethinker because I require facts/scientific reasoning before I am convinced, thus my questions here).
good on you, there are different ways to this, myself had went through quite a bit of searching before I accepted Christ into my life and become a christian, keep search with a open mind, if you have any questions, please feel free to post them here.
I have received a lot of PMs on attending courses and attending the study groups. However, I have some responding that they are also not quite sure abt the bible itself. I had expected a brief but clear outline abt the answers but I am sorry I remain unconvinced with some of the responses. I often feel that facts of life are made to fit into the bible and explain it than having the bible with clear facts to convince us. This is my personal belief and I understand that christians may have a different view on this.
Its ok, we are here just to share our opinion/understanding. -
becoz i went for his bible study (the week b4 the davinci seminar)Originally posted by Icemoon:how come you know? 
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hmmm...according to the user or according to the bible?Originally posted by asimplelife:Please see: How old is the earth according to the Bible?
http://www.users.bigpond.com/rdoolan/earthsage.html -
Did they find human remains inside T-Rex?Originally posted by vince69:Let me answer on his behalf
In the Bible, in Job 40:15-24, God describes to Job (who lived after the Flood) a great beast with which Job was familiar. -
I agree with uncle Chin Eng.Originally posted by Chin Eng:this link is an example of those who subscribe to the "new earth" theory. I won't go into the debate as to who's right and who's wrong, but merely point to the different opinions that exist.
Actually asimplelife, do u ask because u want to know more abt Christianity/God, or because of something else?
I extend my invitation to u again for bible expository. Difficult passages and topics like evolution will be discussed. I think u r pretty much interested in evolution from the questions u posed. -
The behemoth eat grass not meat.Originally posted by Icemoon:Did they find human remains inside T-Rex? 