The Present-DayOfficial Teachings Of The Roman Catholic Chur
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Hey guys,
Can someone please clarify point 4 & 5 for me? Its quite disturbing....
http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/official.htm
*please note that i am not out for a flame war, lets have some constructive answers* -
This site like condemn everything oneOriginally posted by babyys:Hey guys,
Can someone please clarify point 4 for me? Its quite disturbing....
http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/official.htm
*please note that i am not out for a flame war, lets have some constructive answers*
Calvinism also...haha....be careful what u read online.... -
Ya lor, dat means to say for e.g. if i have the intention of being a catholic & i do not buy the portion on indulgences i will & forever be ex-communicated. Therefore i can never & will never be a catholic cause its anathema! hmmm.....strange.
My question is, is it mandate by Man or GOD??? -
This is not the worst.Originally posted by babyys:Ya lor, dat means to say for e.g. if i have the intention of being a catholic & i do not buy the portion on indulgences i will & forever be ex-communicated. Therefore i can never & will never be a catholic cause its anathema! hmmm.....strange.
My question is, is it mandate by Man or GOD???
You want to keep old Catholic traditions (read: old orthodox Catholic traditions) and ignore Vatican II also die.
That's why we have SSPX. -
I am currently reading a book on catholic history.
Indulgences were sold by a noble man backed by the catholic church to finance him to buy the arch bishop position in germany. The catholic church was very corrupted that time, and ganged up with the noble man to earn $$$ from the people by saying the proceeds will go to the building of St Peter Basilisk (spelling) I think.
Indulgences sold to relieve the suffering of the dead while they are in purgatory. Good $$$ to earn from relatives.
Martin Luther had a debate with a theologian whom the church sent to preach sermons on indulgences, but the theologian was utterly inadequate.
But I dun think catholics are selling indulgences liao. -
The purchasing of indulgences isn't practiced here anymore as far as I know...
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It is indeed divine law.Originally posted by babyys:My question is, is it mandate by Man or GOD??? -
'cos it is not part of the Deposit of Faith.Originally posted by Kuali Baba:The purchasing of indulgences isn't practiced here anymore as far as I know...
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Accepting "Indulgence" would be like:
1. Telling God that Jesus's Life, Death and Resurrection is not Perfect.
2. Telling God that the justification of those who come to Him through Christ can be "bought and sold" through the hands of those created by God Himself.
"Now may the God of peace, who brought again from the dead the great shepherd of the sheep with the blood of an eternal covenant, our Lord Jesus, make you complete in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory forever and ever" - Hebrews 13: 20-21
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Hebrews 13: 9 - 14 speaks volumes against such man-made practices.
"Do not be carried away by all kinds of strange teachings. It is good for our hearts to be strengthened by grace, not by ceremonial foods, which are of no value to those who eat them. We have an altar from which those who minister at the tabernacle have no right to eat.
The high priest carries the blood of animals into the Most Holy Place as a sin offering, but the bodies are burned outside the camp. And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood. Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore. For here we do not have an enduring city, but we are looking for the city that is to come. " -
Originally posted by babyys:Hey guys,
Can someone please clarify point 4 & 5 for me? Its quite disturbing....
http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/official.htm
*please note that i am not out for a flame war, lets have some constructive answers*
http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/official.htm
make this a hot link,
a very long article, have to take time to read it, in the mean time, perhaps our Catholic brethens can come in and help us understand what this really means.
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never seen this link before leh.Originally posted by vince69:
http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/official.htm
make this a hot link,
a very long article, have to take time to read it, in the mean time, perhaps our Catholic brethens can come in and help us understand what this really means.
SgMacro bro, is Evangelical Outreach a group endorsed by the Catholic Church or not? -
agree. Not practising anymore. I've never even seen it before and don't really have much idea what it is all about, other than from some articles here and there.Originally posted by Kuali Baba:The purchasing of indulgences isn't practiced here anymore as far as I know... -
Why does the topic starter claims "surprise?"
Has he/she not heard of and understand the concept of Mortal Sins and Venial Sins as taught by the RC Church? -
I guess it's the purchase of indulgences that causes disturbances.Originally posted by casino_king:Why does the topic starter claims "surprise?"
Has he/she not heard of and understand the concept of Mortal Sins and Venial Sins as taught by the RC Church?
The concept of Mortal sins vs Venial sins is quite straightforward. -
Talking about indulgences....
That time so funny. (sidetrack a bit)
My non Catholic friend who tried to stop me from being a Catholic told me that the Priests will ask for money to "absolve me from my sins".
I : "Nope. So far I didn't see leh. Nobody asks me for money. If they do that, I will know one."
My friend : "Got! Some of the Catholic churches still do that. "
I : "Which one?"
My friend : "The one at Novena."
I : "I am attending that one! "
My friend : "(dot dot dot)" -
Evangelicas believe that once saved, saved for eternity. So the concept of Mortal sins vs Venial Sins would be as shocking as "purchase of indulgences."Originally posted by Honeybunz:I guess it's the purchase of indulgences that causes disturbances.
The concept of Mortal sins vs Venial sins is quite straightforward.
What I cannot stand is the emphasise on letter perfect practise when what is required is to be born again.
What shall it profit a man if he is clever and is practise perfect and beliefs perfect but never born of the spirit? -
Think we had discussed this before, a lot of protestants believers (myself included) really do not know/understand what the RC church is really teaching/practicing (yes, we may have heard of the terms, but not really know the meaning or usage), and hence the need to learn and understand.Originally posted by casino_king:Why does the topic starter claims "surprise?"
Has he/she not heard of and understand the concept of Mortal Sins and Venial Sins as taught by the RC Church?
The concept of Mortal sins vs Venial Sins, is quite an alien concept to us protestant christians, for us, sin is regards as sin, period, does not matter what type it is. -
the issue of indulgences, one of the main content that kick started the Reformation.Originally posted by Honeybunz:Talking about indulgences....
That time so funny. (sidetrack a bit)
My non Catholic friend who tried to stop me from being a Catholic told me that the Priests will ask for money to "absolve me from my sins".
I : "Nope. So far I didn't see leh. Nobody asks me for money. If they do that, I will know one."
My friend : "Got! Some of the Catholic churches still do that. "
I : "Which one?"
My friend : "The one at Novena."
I : "I am attending that one! "
My friend : "(dot dot dot)" -
by letter perfect, if you are refering to fully understand the Bible, I agree with you, no one can fully understand the whole Bible fully and perfectly (which is why we need to be humble enough to learn from each other). however this should not stop us from studying it, not like a book of to dos, but more like a book of hows, how we are to see things, how we are to relate to one another, especially how we are related to God .... etc.Originally posted by casino_king:Evangelicas believe that once saved, saved for eternity. So the concept of Mortal sins vs Venial Sins would be as shocking as "purchase of indulgences."
What I cannot stand is the emphasise on letter perfect practise when what is required is to be born again.
What shall it profit a man if he is clever and is practise perfect and beliefs perfect but never born of the spirit?
Knowing God leads to Right belief in God which leads to having a Relationship with God which in turn leads to Right living. -
what's knowledge, belief and relationship without the desire to be born again?Originally posted by vince69:Knowing God leads to Right belief in God which leads to having a Relationship with God which in turn leads to Right living.
*icemoon standing in for CK*
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The point of the article, as it appears to me, is to take words out of context, fit them into the organisation's presuppositions, and then insinuate that Catholics have not changed since the Council of Trent. That in turn seems to imply that Catholics are still wallowing in the alleged errors that precipitated the Protestant Reformation.Originally posted by vince69:
http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/official.htm
make this a hot link,
a very long article, have to take time to read it, in the mean time, perhaps our Catholic brethens can come in and help us understand what this really means.
For example, point 6 highlights 'punishment of sins', but failed to highlight to word 'temporal', which to Catholics is THE critical word in the sentence. To me, this seems like an attempt to wrongly attribute to Catholics the belief that indulgences can save us without the need of Christ. 'Salvation apart from Christ' is of course ludicrous for anyone with a modicum of knowledge of Catholic teachings. The Catholic teaching on sin as disturbing the natural order of the universe and hence having temporal (as opposed to supernatural) effects is completed ignored.
regards,
obiterdicta. -
Don't stand in lah... "knowledge, belief " is for Faith in God; without this Faith in God, there is no possibility of being Born Again.Originally posted by Icemoon:what's knowledge, belief and relationship without the desire to be born again?
*icemoon standing in for CK*
It is God who causes the birth of the spirit in a person.
Desirous of being born again is useless without Faith in God.
Faith in the Bible and Faith in the correct practises and Faith in coorect intepretations are useless for being Born Again.
So you see Abraham simply had Faith in God and he was "judged righteous" meaning he was born of his spirit. Worthy to be born of the spirit. In the Christian context, when Jesus died on the cross, there was no fear of being rejected by God when one puts his Faith in God.
One still has to put his Faith in God to be born of the spirit. -
Originally posted by casino_king:Don't stand in lah... "knowledge, belief " is for Faith in God; without this Faith in God, there is no possibility of being Born Again.
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icemoon kenna swanzOriginally posted by Icemoon: 
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What you say is true, do not put your faith in the books in the Bible, put your faith in the God who authored the books in the Bible. Neither should anyone put their faith on their pastor, but rather they should put their faith in the God that enabled the pastor.Originally posted by casino_king:Don't stand in lah... "knowledge, belief " is for Faith in God; without this Faith in God, there is no possibility of being Born Again.
It is God who causes the birth of the spirit in a person.
Desirous of being born again is useless without Faith in God.
Faith in the Bible and Faith in the correct practises and Faith in coorect intepretations are useless for being Born Again.
So you see Abraham simply had Faith in God and he was "judged righteous" meaning he was born of his spirit. Worthy to be born of the spirit. In the Christian context, when Jesus died on the cross, there was no fear of being rejected by God when one puts his Faith in God.
One still has to put his Faith in God to be born of the spirit.
given these, why do we still study/read the Bible?
1) we want to find God for us to put our faith in God (look at the finger pointing to the moon and follow its direction to see the moon)
2) we want to know how God wanted us to approach Him and relate to Him (His way, not our way)
3) We want to know the character of God, what He is like
(like when looking at the moon, how we know if we are looking at the moon or just its reflection?)
...etc (non exhastive, cause others have their own reasons)