Some questions from Roman Catholics...
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Brey said - Actually who's church did I insult? did I ever mention a particular church per se? Please get your facts straight.Originally posted by fymk:Yes you did - you mentioned RC which means Roman Catholic. [b] You get your facts straight.
I think he was referring to 'church' as in the building, not the denomination. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
With all due respect , I don't think he is referring anything to a building. A building is nothing but a physical part of a church, not the whole - without the people ,without the faith - a building is just well....a building .
Brey said - [b]Actually who's church did I insult? did I ever mention a particular church per se? Please get your facts straight.
I think he was referring to 'church' as in the building, not the denomination.
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A church means the denomination as a whole when a person mentions the denomination i.e. Roman Catholic .
Calling one person's denomination a fallacy or accusing them of lies, does nothing at all except feud problems.
The bible is open to interpretation. You believe in what you want. I believe in what I want. We just practice tolerance , as in respecting each other's denomination, as all worship the same God regardless of doctrinal differences. Who is right or wrong - only God knows. That is my point. -
The way some folks is using the word "God", "god" in sgforum, I think I too will have to switch to using Yahweh to address God to be able to differentiate the God we christians worship, and the "God", "god" they claim to be.Originally posted by breytonhartge:There is a reason on why i have chosen to use the word Yahweh rather than God, because it speaks of so much more, it leaves no uncertainty about who I believe in. Yahweh as a name is so much more powerful than just "God".
No one is 100% correct, but Yahweh is. So therefore His word is. What I am advocating is a return to what the bible says and if the RC's or the protestant churches teach anything contrary, then it is better to point it out so that we all may consider the matter rather than have erroneous teachings.
Brey, don't mind if I copy you ah
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hmmm...........can't see whether u are pro or against Brey hahaOriginally posted by vince69:The way some folks is using the word "God", "god" in sgforum, I think I too will have to switch to using Yahweh to address God to be able to differentiate the God we worship, and the "God", "god" they claim to be. -
in this matter, I am pro, else I really don't know how to differentiate between Yahweh (the God that christians worship) and the term "God" that some confused person is refering to.Originally posted by laoda99:hmmm...........can't see whether u are pro or against Brey haha -
ok......but scally this person next time say u must be born again to know Yahweh?Originally posted by vince69:in this matter, I am pro, else I really don't know how to differentiate between Yahweh (the God that christians worship) and the term "God" that some confused person is refering to. -
as least you will know I am really refering to YahwehOriginally posted by laoda99:ok......but scally this person next time say u must be born again to know Yahweh?
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yeah.........good then.....let's use Yahweh........Originally posted by vince69:as least you will know I am really refering to Yahweh -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
Yes my stance is unbiblical in your terms. Having said that ,the bible is always open to interpretation.
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Originally posted by fymk:
Right and good in God's eyes doesn't mean that you can go around preaching your self righteous and petty thoughts on how great you are in calling God "Yahweh" or how bad my punctuation is .
[b] My point in summary : Respect other people's beliefs and stop judging them .
Remember what Christ said to the Pharisees: let he who has not sin cast the first rock. You are casting rocks on people's beliefs and I do not believe you are without sin.
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Your stance is unbiblical.
Going by your [flawed] reasoning, Apostle Paul would be the greatest rock thrower because:
1 Before he was converted, he ordered the stoning of so many Christians.
2. After he was converted, he wrote epistles, some of them containing his judging the beliefs of other Christians.
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The God that the muslims believe is named Allah but still the same God we all follow . They just believe that Mohammed is their prophet but they do say something as Jesus being another prophet, while we believe Christ is our saviour while the Jews believe the messiah is yet to come forth. Look at history . It is undeniable .
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Again, your argument is unbiblical.
They do not agree on the non-negotiable attributes of the Christian God. Period.[/b]
The apostles are human beings too and human beings are fallible. My point is that Jesus said those who are without sin cast the first rock . Even he did not cast a single rock . However should a person wish to , they better make sure they can answer to God .
I am merely making statement based on historical facts .
The difference between the Jews , Muslims and Christians are:
Muslims believe that the true prophet is Mohammed
Jews believe that the messiah is yet to come
Christians believe that the Messiah came in the form of Jesus Christ and we also believe in the Holy trinity.
Look at the Koran , Torah and Bible and see the similarities for yourself. The old Testament is almost similar on all accounts. -
I mean the church as the registered entity which has its own building or place for worship.Originally posted by fymk:With all due respect , I don't think he is referring anything to a building. A building is nothing but a physical part of a church, not the whole - without the people ,without the faith - a building is just well....a building .
A church means the denomination as a whole when a person mentions the denomination i.e. Roman Catholic .
Calling one person's denomination a fallacy or accusing them of lies, does nothing at all except feud problems.
Your reasoning in red is weird. So if I scold laoda's church, I am scolding the whole Presbyterian denomination? -
You are taking my reasoning out of context. You did not insult the bishop of his denomination right?Originally posted by Icemoon:I mean the church as the registered entity which has its own building or place for worship.
Your reasoning in red is weird. So if I scold laoda's church, I am scolding the whole Presbyterian denomination?
Let me show you brey's context .Originally posted by breytonhartge:
So that is where my reasoning comes in. I find that comment offensive - that is why I came into this topic. A better way he could have put it was that he disagreed with the doctrines of the Roman Catholic church instead of making degradatory remarks.
who says that the priests are the authorised reps of Christ and the Mother Church? [b] The RC church is a fallacy... teaching lies and altering the truth of the word and Yeshua's teachings... what gives the pope the right to say that he is the right to give away titles such as the king of Jerusalem to the germans and etc... and what rights do priests have that make them more special than us????
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Originally posted by fymk:
It is open to interpretation, so I was asking your interpretation in light of the points raised.
Yes my stance is unbiblical in your terms. Having said that ,the bible is always open to interpretation.
The apostles are human beings too and human beings are fallible. My point is that Jesus said [b] those who are without sin cast the first rock . Even he did not cast a single rock . However should a person wish to , they better make sure they can answer to God .
I am merely making statement based on historical facts .
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I'm pretty sure Brey is arguing from conviction. He can answer to God. -
Dun scold my church lehOriginally posted by Icemoon:I mean the church as the registered entity which has its own building or place for worship.
Your reasoning in red is weird. So if I scold laoda's church, I am scolding the whole Presbyterian denomination?
I love my church. -
1. You are the one who defined church in terms of denomination.Originally posted by fymk:You are taking my reasoning out of context. You did not insult the bishop of his denomination right?
2. You did not check Brey's understanding of 'church'.
3. Brey defended himself saying he did not insult any church per se. -
Let me see...
icemoon is anti-ecumenical while fymk is? -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
He did so - a whole denomination - read below .
1. You are the one who defined church in terms of denomination.
2. You did not check Brey's understanding of 'church'.
3. Brey defended himself saying he did not insult any church [b]per se.
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Like I said , a better way he could have put it was that he disagreed with the doctrines of the Roman Catholic church instead of making degradatory remarks. Now tell me if I am not wrong in saying Brey is actually insulting the whole denomination .
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Originally posted by breytonhartge:
who says that the priests are the authorised reps of Christ and the Mother Church? The RC church is a fallacy... teaching lies and altering the truth of the word and Yeshua's teachings... what gives the pope the right to say that he is the right to give away titles such as the king of Jerusalem to the germans and etc... and what rights do priests have that make them more special than us????
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Here is the exchange (formatting preserved):Originally posted by fymk:Like I said , a better way he could have put it was that he disagreed with the doctrines of the Roman Catholic church instead of making degradatory remarks. Now tell me if I am not wrong in saying Brey is actually insulting the whole denomination .
Brey - Actually who's church did I insult? did I ever mention a particular church per se? Please get your facts straight.
fymk - Yes you did - you mentioned RC which means Roman Catholic. You get your facts straight.
I think it is pretty clear Brey is referring to the church as a registered entity. There are many bashings against CHC and even NCC, we have seen quite a few in EH for NCC.
Hence, I think your bolding is pretty unwarranted. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
shrugs . You can take it anyway you want it when the wording is so clearly out in Brey's words about his sanctimonious tirade against the Roman Catholic Church there in my post. Hence I think the above opinion is pretty much biaised. Bashing of any church in my view is wrong except when there is a factual cause to do so (i.e. proven cult or sect perversing the interpretation of the bible) .
Here is the exchange (formatting preserved):
Brey - Actually who's church did I insult? did I ever mention a particular church per se? Please get your facts straight.
fymk - Yes you did - you mentioned RC which means Roman Catholic. [b]You get your facts straight.
I think it is pretty clear Brey is referring to the church as a registered entity. There are many bashings against CHC and even NCC, we have seen quite a few in EH for NCC.
Hence, I think your bolding is pretty unwarranted.[/b]
Aren't you yourself being unbiblical by quoting a church as only a registered entity as in me being unbiblical by stating historical facts? -
Look at what he wrote:Originally posted by laoda99:Let me see...
icemoon is anti-ecumenical while fymk is?And btw catholic does not only mean the catholic church - catholic means the universal church.
I dunno what fallacy is this .. amphiboly? howcome universal church suddenly become soneone's church?
And if you want to insult someone's church and think you are right about it - think again.
http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/skepticism/blfaq_fall_amphiboly.htm -
Of coz not biblical...Icemoon is a jew!Originally posted by fymk:shrugs . You can take it anyway you want it when the wording is so clearly out in Brey's words about his sanctimonious tirade against the Roman Catholic Church there in my post. Hence I think the above opinion is pretty much biaised. Bashing of any church in my view is wrong except when there is a factual cause .
Aren't you yourself being unbiblical by quoting a church as only a registered entity as in me being unbiblical by stating historical facts? -
Ask the anglicans when they say the apostle's creed. Why there is a catholic in it.Originally posted by Icemoon:I dunno what fallacy is this .. amphiboly? howcome universal church suddenly become soneone's church?
http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/skepticism/blfaq_fall_amphiboly.htm
Oh yeah here is the definition from the web too :
Catholic (literally meaning: according to (kata-) the whole (holos) or more generally "universal") is a religious term with a number of meanings: * The term can refer to the notion that all Christians are part of one Church, regardless of denominational divisions
Another one for you too
This came from the Greek word Katholikos which means "throughout the whole" or "universal." This implies a world-wide faith, rather than a local one. The Nicene Creed, recited in the churches of many Christian denominations, speaks of "one holy catholic and apostolic church." Many faith groups refer to themselves as Catholic: the Roman Catholic Church, centered in the Vatican; Anglo-Catholics (within the Anglican Communion); and Evangelical Catholics -
what's the point of 'stating historical facts' when there is no proper interpretation? I'm sure SIS can show us more historical facts - god killed the egyptians, god killed x, god killed y ..Originally posted by fymk:shrugs . You can take it anyway you want it when the wording is so clearly out in Brey's words about his sanctimonious tirade against the Roman Catholic Church there in my post. Hence I think the above opinion is pretty much biaised. Bashing of any church in my view is wrong except when there is a factual cause .
Aren't you yourself being unbiblical by quoting a church as only a registered entity as in me being unbiblical by stating historical facts?
Does Brey not have any factual cause? Have you asked him whether he has a factual cause? -
Why should I ask? He would have justified it instead of playing with words. He is the one who is edging dangerously near the Sedition Act. Not me.Originally posted by Icemoon:Does Brey not have any factual cause? Have you asked him whether he has a factual cause? -
So if church can mean 'one Church' (with Christ as the head) or one registered entity (eg. chc) .. how come you define church in terms of denomination?Originally posted by fymk:Ask the anglicans when they say the apostle's creed. Why there is a catholic in it.
Oh yeah here is the definition from the web too :
Catholic (literally meaning: according to (kata-) the whole (holos) or more generally "universal") is a religious term with a number of meanings: * The term can refer to the notion that all Christians are part of one Church, regardless of denominational divisions -
I absolutely enjoy the way you take my points out of the context that they were placed in . They were from the Apostle's creed and that perspective would be better seen if you have just bothered to quote the whole comment.Originally posted by Icemoon:So if church can mean 'one Church' (with Christ as the head) or one registered entity (eg. chc) .. how come you define church in terms of denomination?
definitions:
The word is used in two senses: the visible and the invisible church. The visible church consists of all the people that claim to be Christians and go to church. The invisible church is the actual body of Christians; those who are truly saved. The true church of God is not an organization on earth consisting of people and buildings, but is really a supernatural entity comprised of those who are saved by Jesus
And the part about church being defined in terms of denomination:
Roman Catholic: the Christian Church based in the Vatican and presided over by a pope and an episcopal hierarchy
RC which brey brought in is the Christian Church based in Vatican and presided over by a pope and an episcopal hierarchy . That is the context of my definition.