Some questions from Roman Catholics...
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naughty lor!Originally posted by vince69:wah you there for the seat or message? I normally go to 4th floor overflow
(cause I always late one mah, lazy to queue also)
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Ouch!Originally posted by Honeybunz:naughty lor! -
I am not saying Yahweh is hebrew. And I am not saying that the Jewish race has preeminence over Yahweh, but the Jewish race has a very special place in God's eyes and that we cannot detract from. The Jews are the people chosen to receive instruction and teaching from Yahweh. So therefore their ways and customs are not really jewish traditions, but traditions of Yahweh. Unless you can say today that Yahweh is double minded, then I think that Yahweh's feasts and commands from the old testament still stand and are to be obeyed.Originally posted by Chin Eng:So you are saying that Yahweh is Hebrew? I don't think so. Just because Yehweh chose a particular race does not make Yahweh part of that race. Believing this is tantamount in beliving that the Hebrew race has pre-eminence over Yahweh. Pretty heretical to me.
On the contrary, it's the other way round, humankind is to take on the attributes of Yahweh.
I wonder if a banana stalk were to be grafted onto an apple tree, would it yield apples or bananas.
But I did say go back to hebraic roots, because this is the essence of our walk as a beliver in Yahweh. These people walked what Yahweh taught. What modern christians do not do is to check the accuracy of the teachings that we have today as compared to the OLD TESTAMENT, not the new testament. Even in Shaul's day, his sermons were compared back to the old testament for accuracy and to be proven, as seen in acts where the berens searched the scripture(only the OT was available then) to ascertain the validity of Shaul's teaching. None of the greats of the new testament ever taught anything which was contrary to the OT. All these men of Yahweh, were well versed in keeping the law and well understood Torah, even Yahshua.
The best way to get a correct understanding of the OLD TESTAMENT is to understand the Hebrew language because Hebrew expresses the culture, passion, and thought behind the words in scripture.
If you believe in your statement that humankind is to take on the attributes of Yahweh, then why has the modern day church strayed so far from His Laws and His commands? Why are we not following in the traditions and celebrating the feasts that Yahweh have called us to celebrate? -
There is a reason on why i have chosen to use the word Yahweh rather than God, because it speaks of so much more, it leaves no uncertainty about who I believe in. Yahweh as a name is so much more powerful than just "God".Originally posted by Chin Eng:exactly... but no one is 100% right. To you the way to address the almight is Yahweh... or maybe it's YHWH. So other Christian who chose to use "God" is right or wrong? Note: this is only to illustrate the point, it does not mean that I am against you using Yahweh.
on the same track, I don't believe that the gift of tongues still exists, so to me it is wrong. But to my other brethens, it is correct. To me, some charismatic teachings goes against the ways of God.
....so it goes back to - nobody is 100% correct lest some of us are tempted to think that we are.....
No one is 100% correct, but Yahweh is. So therefore His word is. What I am advocating is a return to what the bible says and if the RC's or the protestant churches teach anything contrary, then it is better to point it out so that we all may consider the matter rather than have erroneous teachings. -
I want the feeling of LIVE mah. The seats more comfy also.Originally posted by vince69:wah you there for the seat or message? I normally go to 4th floor overflow
(cause I always late one mah, lazy to queue also) -
I think queuing (for tickets and entry) is silly. Machiam attending superstar concert. But NCC very good liao. CHC had poor crowd control at their JW main building.Originally posted by vince69:(cause I always late one mah, lazy to queue also) -
Originally posted by breytonhartge:I am not saying Yahweh is hebrew. And I am not saying that the Jewish race has preeminence over Yahweh, but the Jewish race has a very special place in God's eyes and that we cannot detract from. The Jews are the people chosen to receive instruction and teaching from Yahweh. So therefore their ways and customs are not really jewish traditions, but traditions of Yahweh. Unless you can say today that Yahweh is double minded, then I think that Yahweh's feasts and commands from the old testament still stand and are to be obeyed.
Actually both of you never hit the target. Near, but miss the crux.Originally posted by Chin Eng:So you are saying that Yahweh is Hebrew? I don't think so. Just because Yehweh chose a particular race does not make Yahweh part of that race. Believing this is tantamount in beliving that the Hebrew race has pre-eminence over Yahweh. Pretty heretical to me.
On the contrary, it's the other way round, humankind is to take on the attributes of Yahweh.
The Jewish thinking is that God chose Abraham (hence, the Jews) because Abraham chose God first! This reversal of order has the following implications:
1. Jews are not arrogant because they are not "favoured". God could have chosen other races, but Abraham was first to open his heart and embrace monotheism. So you can't blame God for choosing the Jews.
2. If anything, Jews have the additional burden of keeping the commandments. Salvation is not guaranteed for them.
In the Jewish worldview, gentiles are not expected to keep the commandments and practise Jewish customs.
http://judaism.about.com/library/3_askrabbi_o/bl_simmons_chosen.htm
Wah .. Brey used Shaul for Paul leh! I think he don't read NIV .. he reads the orthodox Jewish Brit Chadasha one.Originally posted by breytonhartge:But I did say go back to hebraic roots, because this is the essence of our walk as a beliver in Yahweh. These people walked what Yahweh taught. What modern christians do not do is to check the accuracy of the teachings that we have today as compared to the OLD TESTAMENT, not the new testament. Even in Shaul's day, his sermons were compared back to the old testament for accuracy and to be proven, as seen in acts where the berens searched the scripture(only the OT was available then) to ascertain the validity of Shaul's teaching. None of the greats of the new testament ever taught anything which was contrary to the OT. All these men of Yahweh, were well versed in keeping the law and well understood Torah, even Yahshua.
The best way to get a correct understanding of the OLD TESTAMENT is to understand the Hebrew language because Hebrew expresses the culture, passion, and thought behind the words in scripture.
Who is Yahshua? Joshua? -
Yahshua = JesusOriginally posted by Icemoon:Wah .. Brey used Shaul for Paul leh! I think he don't read NIV .. he reads the orthodox Jewish Brit Chadasha one.
Who is Yahshua? Joshua?
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still arguing ah?
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don't know leh....Originally posted by NT2:still arguing ah? -
but Brey used Yeshua also.Originally posted by vince69:Yahshua = Jesus
so confusing. -
Originally posted by breytonhartge:who says that the priests are the authorised reps of Christ and the Mother Church? The RC church is a fallacy... teaching lies and altering the truth of the word and Yeshua's teachings... what gives the pope the right to say that he is the right to give away titles such as the king of Jerusalem to the germans and etc... and what rights do priests have that make them more special than us????
and what are the Christians???? We as believers are all commissioned to be Yahweh's reps on earth.
Got only this to say really :Originally posted by breytonhartge:There is a reason on why i have chosen to use the word Yahweh rather than God, because it speaks of so much more, it leaves no uncertainty about who I believe in. Yahweh as a name is so much more powerful than just "God".
No one is 100% correct, but Yahweh is. So therefore His word is. What I am advocating is a return to what the bible says and if the RC's or the protestant churches teach anything contrary, then it is better to point it out so that we all may consider the matter rather than have erroneous teachings.
I believe in Jesus Christ, his only Son, our Lord.
He was conceived by the power of the Holy Spirit
and born of the Virgin Mary.
He suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended to the dead.
On the third day he rose again.
He ascended into heaven,
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit,
the holy catholic Church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and the life everlasting.
Amen
And btw catholic does not only mean the catholic church - catholic means the universal church.
And if you want to insult someone's church and think you are right about it - think again. Every christian, regardless of protestant or catholic , believe in the same god as the muslims and jews do . The difference from them is the belief of the holy trinity - hence the name christians.
The most important thing , other than to push or shove another person's church or doctrine down , is to try to do what is right and good in god's eyes. Not feud another problem like what happened in northern ireland. Doing is more important than speech - it makes the world a much better place to live in for all people including those of other religions.
Brey - go argue with a theologian/priest/pastor - they will be more than qualified to discuss such matters with you -
both apply. Yeshua and Yahshua.Originally posted by Icemoon:but Brey used Yeshua also.
so confusing. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:
Are you sure that salvation is not guaranteed for the Jews?
[b]
2. If anything, Jews have the additional burden of keeping the commandments. Salvation is not guaranteed for them.
In the Jewish worldview, gentiles are not expected to keep the commandments and practise Jewish customs.
[b]
Romans 11
IsraelÂ’s Rejection Not Total
1 I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “LORD, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”?[a] 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”[b] 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace.[c] But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written:
“ God has given them a spirit of stupor,
Eyes that they should not see
And ears that they should not hear,
To this very day.”[d]
9 And David says:
“ Let their table become a snare and a trap,
A stumbling block and a recompense to them.
10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,
And bow down their back always.”[e]
IsraelÂ’s Rejection Not Final
11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness,[f] if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.26 And so all Israel will be saved,[g] as it is written:
“ The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”[h]
28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.
33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!
34 “ For who has known the mind of the LORD?
Or who has become His counselor?”[i]
35 “ Or who has first given to Him
And it shall be repaid to him?”[j]
36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen. -
Gee we wonder who has got his knickers in a knot?? FYI, it is a public forum and all of us here have our pet topics.Originally posted by fymk:And if you want to insult someone's church and think you are right about it - think again. Every christian, regardless of protestant or catholic , believe in the same god as the muslims and jews do . The difference from them is the belief of the holy trinity - hence the name christians.
The most important thing , other than to push or shove another person's church or doctrine down , is to try to do what is right and good in god's eyes. Not feud another problem like what happened in northern ireland. Doing is more important than speech - it makes the world a much better place to live in for all people including those of other religions.
Brey - go argue with a theologian/priest/pastor - they will be more than qualified to discuss such matters with you
Actually who's church did I insult? did I ever mention a particular church per se? Please get your facts straight.
The god that the muslims worship is not Yahweh.
And we wonder whether the christians really worship Yahweh, when they do not keep His feasts, do not keep shabbat, and they profane the name of Yahweh by mixing "christian" tradition with pagan ritual?
The jews do worship Yahweh, and the time will come when they will be saved. Make no mistake about that one. Do not be too arrogant in your assumption that you have obtained salvation, just because you have accepted Yeshua and repented, but the question here is what have you repented to? To repent means to turn back or go back and just what have christians today gone back to? Do they really worship Yahweh in spirit and in truth or do they subsitute the truth for a lie?
Also please give Yahweh more respect. It is GOD with a capital not god
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Then the question to you is how do you know what is right and good in Yahweh's eyes unless you understand who and what Yahweh is about? -
of course .. or it wouldn't be justification by works right?Originally posted by breytonhartge:Are you sure that salvation is not guaranteed for the Jews?
as the xtians like to say .. who can keep all the commandments?
hence salvation is not guaranteed for them. -
yahshua sounds like toothbrush in mandarin.Originally posted by breytonhartge:both apply. Yeshua and Yahshua.
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yeah i agree....still not sleep?Originally posted by Icemoon:yahshua sounds like toothbrush in mandarin. -
actually there is where you and I differ in our opinion, for the jews, they are already looking for Messiah to return and when Yeshua does return, they will all recognise Him and confess and thus be saved. So shall the first be last and the last shall be first.Originally posted by Icemoon:of course .. or it wouldn't be justification by works right?
as the xtians like to say .. who can keep all the commandments?
hence salvation is not guaranteed for them. -
*scratch head*Originally posted by breytonhartge:actually there is where you and I differ in our opinion, for the jews, they are already looking for Messiah to return and when Yeshua does return, they will all recognise Him and confess and thus be saved. So shall the first be last and the last shall be first.
how do the dead confess? -
The Name Yahshua is a compound Name. It is a combination of Yahweh's Name in a personal name (YAH: yod-heh) and SHUA (shin-ayin), which means salvation.Originally posted by breytonhartge:both apply. Yeshua and Yahshua.
the Name Yahshua means Yahweh is salvation.
Yeshua, means He will save. -
how do u know?Originally posted by breytonhartge:The god that the muslims worship is not Yahweh. -
Yes you did - you mentioned RC which means Roman Catholic. You get your facts straight.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Gee we wonder who has got his knickers in a knot?? FYI, it is a public forum and all of us here have our pet topics.
Actually who's church did I insult? did I ever mention a particular church per se? Please get your facts straight.
The god that the muslims worship is not Yahweh.
And we wonder whether the christians really worship Yahweh, when they do not keep His feasts, do not keep shabbat, and they profane the name of Yahweh by mixing "christian" tradition with pagan ritual?
The jews do worship Yahweh, and the time will come when they will be saved. Make no mistake about that one. Do not be too arrogant in your assumption that you have obtained salvation, just because you have accepted Yeshua and repented, but the question here is what have you repented to? To repent means to turn back or go back and just what have christians today gone back to? Do they really worship Yahweh in spirit and in truth or do they subsitute the truth for a lie?
Also please give Yahweh more respect. It is GOD with a capital not god .
Then the question to you is how do you know what is right and good in Yahweh's eyes unless you understand who and what Yahweh is about?
Right and good in God's eyes doesn't mean that you can go around preaching your self righteous and petty thoughts on how great you are in calling God "Yahweh" or how bad my punctuation is .
My point in summary : Respect other people's beliefs and stop judging them .
Remember what Christ said to the Pharisees: let he who has not sin cast the first rock. You are casting rocks on people's beliefs and I do not believe you are without sin.
The God that the muslims believe is named Allah but still the same God we all follow . They just believe that Mohammed is their prophet but they do say something as Jesus being another prophet, while we believe Christ is our saviour while the Jews believe the messiah is yet to come forth. Look at history . It is undeniable .
God is known by many names . His true name cannot be uttered for it is powerful . Does not matter if God is named Allah , Jehovah, Yahweh, Yehovah, God, Yeshua. God of the Jews , God of Moses , God of Abraham etc . God is God - the almighty creator of heaven and earth and all things living .
My question to you is that DO YOU YOURSELF KNOW WHAT GOD IS ABOUT than what you think God is about? God is the creator - yes most christians know that . God gave us our ten commandments - yes most christians know that .
What we also know is that all major religions also preach the same moral conduct that is required - goodness is universal - you do not need to know that lying is a sin, murder is a sin etc. -
I am but a simple human being here .Originally posted by breytonhartge:Then the question to you is how do you know what is right and good in Yahweh's eyes unless you understand who and what Yahweh is about?
If I wanted to acquire the further knowledge of understanding God - I would taken up theology and aramaic (to decipher dead sea scrolls) as a discipline.
I believe that there is a greater power up there whose name I know is God . I believe that Jesus was sent to save mankind and through his acts of tolerance, kindness and compassion, he probably hoped that we would follow his examples so that more people will convert because of the nature of what he preached.
I don't recall reading about Jesus correcting people on the name of God or saying that Judaism is wrong. Remember Jesus, in human form , was born a Jew too except he was one with a higher power and purpose- the messiah , to unite all men in the belief of God and salvation regardless of whether they were jewish or not.
What I also believe is that Christianity branches out from Judaism - the faction of Jews ,and gentiles in those tumultous persecutory days, who believed that Jesus was the saviour , were in fact our very first Christians. -
Originally posted by fymk:
Your stance is unbiblical.
Right and good in God's eyes doesn't mean that you can go around preaching your self righteous and petty thoughts on how great you are in calling God "Yahweh" or how bad my punctuation is .
[b] My point in summary : Respect other people's beliefs and stop judging them .
Remember what Christ said to the Pharisees: let he who has not sin cast the first rock. You are casting rocks on people's beliefs and I do not believe you are without sin. [/b]
Going by your [flawed] reasoning, Apostle Paul would be the greatest rock thrower because:
1 Before he was converted, he ordered the stoning of so many Christians.
2. After he was converted, he wrote epistles, some of them containing his judging the beliefs of other Christians.The God that the muslims believe is named Allah but still the same God we all follow . They just believe that Mohammed is their prophet but they do say something as Jesus being another prophet, while we believe Christ is our saviour while the Jews believe the messiah is yet to come forth. Look at history . It is undeniable .
Again, your argument is unbiblical.
They do not agree on the non-negotiable attributes of the Christian God. Period.