scenario
-
A scenario and some questions:
If u are a Christian leader living in turbulent times where Christian faith were shaken, and ur enemies want ur blood, would u resort to burning one of ur enemy at the stake becoz he has wrote heretical stuff abt the trinity?
Would u defend ur actions by saying:"Is it not murderous for this man to bring others to hell?" After u burn this guy, ur enemies become fearful and fled from u.
U are a Christian leader who have written great treatises abt the bible and u believe the only way to god is salvation by faith (and the five point of calvinism). U have just written:"Every murder is homicide against God."
How would ur action be? Would u kill the heretic to save others? Would u kill ur enemy to save urself? -
Let god do the job?
-
I will first question the ultimate authority of Life and Creation.
Then i'll examine the fact that if Christianity/the word of God central message is Love, then doing what is described in the scenario is a complete distortion of the Message.
Anyway, it made it seems like ''the person is the justice of God, you're helping God to clear up the mess...''
Basically, i'd question the motive of that Christian leader more than heretic. He too, is no better than the heretics.
Cheers -
Even without bringing religion into the picture, this assumption is flawed and naive. Therefore any action that is taken based on this assumption is ineffective.Originally posted by laoda99:After u burn this guy, ur enemies become fearful and fled from u.
-
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Servetus
It really happened. This guy burned by a great thelogian call John Calvin.
I have read some comments by reform pple and I sort of agree with them. Irregardless of how great theologians are, they are still sinful pple....and we should follow god not follow men. -
Haiz....Originally posted by laoda99:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Servetus
It really happened. This guy burned by a great thelogian call John Calvin. -
That's why this is one of the reasons [aside from the Biblical principles] why i agree that there should be a separation between the Church and the State.
Calvin had too much power in his hands during those times both secular and ecclesiastical.
Death by drowning was the state's penalty against heresies during his time.
Calvin though a great theologian was still imperfect. he should have known that the Biblical principle is tht the state and the church is separate.
my opinion. -
should we try to burn those against us?
someone tried, in fact two of the apostles tried to burn an entire village of people who refuse Jesus' entry to pass through their village.
Guess what, they (the two apostles) kenna rebuke by Jesus.Luke 9:51-55
51As the time approached for him to be taken up to heaven, Jesus resolutely set out for Jerusalem. 52And he sent messengers on ahead, who went into a Samaritan village to get things ready for him; 53but the people there did not welcome him, because he was heading for Jerusalem. 54When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them[c]?" 55But Jesus turned and rebuked them, 56and[d] they went to another village. -
what is written in the Bible?
are not one of the commandments "Thou shall not kill"
how can you make one right with two wrongs? -
stop asking questions u cannot decide out of a conviction.
no promise made. -
Jesus was too kind with them. If looking at girls with lust also adultery, then those two have committed spiritual killings.Originally posted by vince69:should we try to burn those against us?
someone tried, in fact two of the apostles tried to burn an entire village of people who refuse Jesus' entry to pass through their village.
Guess what, they (the two apostles) kenna rebuke by Jesus.
Should punish them for 40 days like how God punished the Israelites. -
you refering to the time they spent in the desert? that will be 40years instead not daysOriginally posted by Icemoon:Jesus was too kind with them. If looking at girls with lust also adultery, then those two have committed spiritual killings.
Should punish them for 40 days like how God punished the Israelites.
talking about adultery, remember the woman that was caught in the act of comitting adultery, and the teachers of the law brought her to Jesus wanting to stone her? wonder what happen to the man that was caught with her? I mean since she was caught in the act, means someone must be with her lah, she couldn't be doing it alone, right? -
It was his methodology in handling of Lives and practicing the word which made me a unbeliever of his calvinist theory.Originally posted by Ironside:That's why this is one of the reasons [aside from the Biblical principles] why i agree that there should be a separation between the Church and the State.
Calvin had too much power in his hands during those times both secular and ecclesiastical.
Death by drowning was the state's penalty against heresies during his time.
Calvin though a great theologian was still imperfect. he should have known that the Biblical principle is tht the state and the church is separate.
my opinion.
Double Standard.
Cheers -
some sort of punishment is expected.Originally posted by vince69:you refering to the time they spent in the desert? that will be 40years instead not days
even Miriam kenna leper right? -
how come you link his theory with his character?Originally posted by M©+square:It was his methodology in handling of Lives and practicing the word which made me a unbeliever of his calvinist theory.
Double Standard.
Cheers
since Luther tore up the epistle of straw, should we ignore him 'cos he didn't even respect the bible? -
Originally posted by Icemoon:how come you link his theory with his character?
since Luther tore up the epistle of straw, should we ignore him 'cos he didn't even respect the bible? 
You would wish to re read my inital post above.
My point is very clear. -
I see no direct link between his theory and his actions.Originally posted by M©+square:
You would wish to re read my inital post above.
My point is very clear. -
not really true, one very perculiar thing I noticed is that before the ten commandments (ie. Law) was given to Moses (from since they left Egypt), nothing seems to happen when the Isrealites complain/grumbles, then after that, wracking follows everytime they complains/grumbles against God.Originally posted by Icemoon:some sort of punishment is expected.
even Miriam kenna leper right?
oh, on this, Miriam was restored after 7 days (but why Aaron did not get it when he also doing the same thing as her?)
btw... its in Numbers 12 -
'cos God never claim to be fair but He is just.Originally posted by vince69:oh, on this, Miriam was restored after 7 days (but why Aaron did not get it when he also doing the same thing as her?)
btw... its in Numbers 12
maybe Aaron High Priest must give him face .. or else people won't respect him. -
If you don't see a preacher practicing what he preached IS important.Originally posted by Icemoon:I see no direct link between his theory and his actions.
Then i'll rest the case.
***Continue watching Bleach.
Cheers -
don't think this is the reason, in the first place, God had said they are opposing Moses and is like opposing Him(God); ie; not giving face to God; why would God worried about his (Aaron) face?Originally posted by Icemoon:'cos God never claim to be fair but He is just.
maybe Aaron High Priest must give him face .. or else people won't respect him.
but you may be right on Aaron being the high priest, cause if he kenna also, then he will consider unclean and cannot perform the high priest duty. -
at most you call him a hypocrite. but this has not much to do with doctrines and statements of faith.Originally posted by M©+square:If you don't see a preacher practicing what he preached IS important.
Then i'll rest the case.
***Continue watching Bleach.
Cheers
just like Luther .. tearing up the epistle when the bible is divinely inspired? If he has no basic respect for the Word of God, then why should we listen to his looney arguments about grace and faith? -
they have no 2IC meh?Originally posted by vince69:but you may be right on Aaron being the high priest, cause if he kenna also, then he will consider unclean and cannot perform the high priest duty. -
Let me try again.Originally posted by Icemoon:at most you call him a hypocrite. but this has not much to do with doctrines and statements of faith.
In which form was he just a hypocrite???Originally posted by M©+square:
I will first question the ultimate authority of Life and Creation.
Then i'll examine the fact that if Christianity/the word of God central message is Love, then doing what is described in the scenario is a complete distortion of the Message.
Anyway, it made it seems like ''the person is the justice of God, you're helping God to clear up the mess...''
Basically, i'd question the motive of that Christian leader more than heretic. He too, is no better than the heretics.
Cheers
By taking lives away. It doesn't affect his preaching?
I suppose any christian writer could have their way with secret sins and people who read their teachings would treat two matters seperately. At most, they'll just be called hypocrites. Viewership and followers abounds.
It's not my fight anyway. But are you thinking?
Cheers -
no, only 1 high priest is allow at one single time, cannot have more than 1.Originally posted by Icemoon:they have no 2IC meh?