i am an athetist.
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Not exactly, but 'fairness' holds water as in so far that God cannot self-contradict his own omnipotence and all-Goodness.Originally posted by vince69:
I am simply pointing out the idea that "God must be fair", is an inaccurate statement and a wrong concept about the character of God.
In many ways, when we mean God is fair, we do not mean that the things He do will appear fair to us, or that He has to be fair to us by virtue us being His creations. Rather He 'must' be fair for the very reason that He would not self-contradict His own Goodness and justice, but this fairness is beyond human comprehension.
Was it fair for God to die for us? Do we even have any right to demand existence of fairness? As far as I see even our free will was given to us out of no right on our part at all. Human conceptions of fairness God is not bound, only to His own character and justice would He be. -
Yep, whoever said the incarnation was a big deal to an omnipotent God? Are we insisting on it on our own terms? I have no doubt that God could have done it as many times, as cruely or as painfully as He wanted.Originally posted by Icemoon:Now He is still 100% God, one with the Father,eternally in heaven.
What's 33 years to an Eternal God?
The thing here is not if it can be done, but if it should be done at all.
What it is, is a scandal to us by the natural order and place we had been created and put into. Demanding that Christ be put through the worst torture that humans can concieve (thought the cross was one of them), be totally alienated and exposed to the worst possible kind of physical evils seems to me to be missing the whole point of the event.
One might as well said it was better to do your burnt offerings with exposives to blow up the lamb and doves as doing so would mean a stronger sacrifice then just mere killing and burning. No, the point is quite another, and I don't think any other death had as much death and sin tacked to it then ever before.
And it is obvious that Jesus became a different kind of man after the ressurection, but this is all theology that is too long to go into at the foot of the post. -
1) He is a human being with a glorified body right now in heaven. God-Man forever.Originally posted by Icemoon:He was resurrected. He had a new body. Surely this is a "higher state" than when he was human? When he was human, he was 100% man. I'm not sure whether he is still 100% man after the resurrection.
If you want to know what is true suffering .. look at Lord Dizhang.
No doubt crucification is cruel - it is banned by human rights group today I guess?
But when you begin to realize many people were crucified before or after Jesus and that there existed worse tortures elsewhere, it is "no big deal" in terms of the physical punishment.
2) His suffering on the physical plane may not look much different than the other victims of crucifixion. But on the spiritual plane it was way much different. It was eternity contracted into three eternal hours. God's wrath poured out upon Him. And He felt and experienced it, the full force of it. -
If God must be totally fair....
then I guess the whole humankind should go to hell for our sins. -
Amen...I also thought about the physical aspect. Probably the 2 theives beside him felt the same thing. But spiritually, it's different. The 2 died for their sins, Jesus died for no sin (or rather, taking all the sins of Mankind).Originally posted by Ironside:1) He is a human being with a glorified body right now in heaven. God-Man forever.
2) His suffering on the physical plane may not look much different than the other victims of crucifixion. But on the spiritual plane it was way much different. It was eternity contracted into three eternal hours. God's wrath poured out upon Him. And He felt and experienced it, the full force of it.
Surely, this is different!