Christian churches to work for code on conversion
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Christian churches to work for code on conversion
By Robert Evans
GENEVA (Reuters) - The World Council of Churches (WCC), which groups Protestant and Orthodox believers, said on Monday it was launching a joint effort with the Vatican to shape a code of conduct on religious conversion.
And a senior WCC official said it was hoped that the essentially intra-Christian project would spark discussion on the issue among Muslims -- who take a stern view of people leaving the faith -- and among followers of other religions.
"We hope to produce a code that will ensure that believers commitment to their faith never translates into denigration of another," said Hans Ucko, head of the 348-member WCC's Office on Inter-religious Relations and Dialogue.
The initiative, billed as a three-year study project, will be joined on the Catholic side by the Pontifical Council for Inter-religious Dialogue, which hosts a first, four-day, meeting in Rome from Wednesday.
Ucko told Reuters the idea of rules on proselytising had arisen several years ago during regular contacts between the Geneva-based WCC and the Vatican after methods used by Christian missionaries in India had caused problems for local Christians.
But he said it was not linked to a recent high-profile controversy involving many Western political and church leaders, including Pope Benedict, in defending a 40-year-old Afghan facing a death sentence in Kabul for converting to Christianity.
The man, Abdur Rahman, was freed from jail to condemnation from many Muslim clerics after intervention by Western-backed President Hamid Karzai, and now lives in Italy.
CRUSADING
"This is basically an intra-Christian project, a dialogue between Christians, because although some take a low-key approach others embark on what can be seen as crusading which offends people of other religions," said Ucko.
There had been examples of this in Sri Lanka after the tsunami tidal wave of December 2004 when a drive by foreign missionaries to win converts among local Buddhists led to attacks on long-established local Christians, he added.
But Christians were not alone in active proselytising. "In some parts of the world, Muslims also work to make non-Muslims embrace Islam," said Ucko.
The Rome meeting this week would be attended by representatives of other faiths, including Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims and indigenous religious traditions. Muslim contacts had expressed interest in the project, Ucko said.
Many Muslim scholars equate "apostasy" -- or leaving the faith -- with treason in secular societies, arguing that Islam is a state as well as religious structure. In many Islamic countries, including Iran, apostates can be put to death.
"The issue also touches on religious freedom," said Ucko. "In the world we live in today, changing one's religion should not be seen as a betrayal of Islam or of any other faith." -
they shld tell dat to NCC/CHC and all the new age ommming mystics.
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I think such dialogue would be a good step forward in decreasing the religious conflicts and the code a useful guide in evangelising, but would the participating churches' members really follow them?
What you guys think? -
i don't think they wld follow, especially those of charismatic foundation; and for the rest, they would follow for wayang purposes. the chances of overseas churches, e.g. singapore, etc, would be even worse.Originally posted by laurence82:I think such dialogue would be a good step forward in decreasing the religious conflicts and the code a useful guide in evangelising, but would the participating churches' members really follow them?
What you guys think? -
dun think it will work, but worth a tryOriginally posted by laurence82:I think such dialogue would be a good step forward in decreasing the religious conflicts and the code a useful guide in evangelising, but would the participating churches' members really follow them?
What you guys think? -
So to heck with these codes, do anything one likes even if it can lead to incitement of hate or whatever?
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For the code to work it has to be more important to the cause, or at least helping to forward the cause.Originally posted by laurence82:So to heck with these codes, do anything one likes even if it can lead to incitement of hate or whatever?
Unfortunately anybody truly devoted to any faith would dump the codes the moment they had to choose between the two, and often it turns out that way. -
GoodOriginally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:For the code to work it has to be more important to the cause, or at least helping to forward the cause.
Unfortunately anybody truly devoted to any faith would dump the codes the moment they had to choose between the two, and often it turns out that way.
More wars and conflict then
*shrugz* -
People are more willing to die for something I suppose, and also perhaps it's the most telling of the human condition.Originally posted by laurence82:Good
More wars and conflict then
*shrugz*
Unfortunately the alternative seems to be suggesting everybody get along by accept some universal code of tolerance that involves watering down any possible kind of difference until people are no different from cattle living from day to day thinking that no ideas or notions matter as long as we survive and get along... I don't think that's much of a life either. Survival it seems, is not the greatest virtue.
If you got a choice between living in a world where people didn't care much about what they thought and spent life living simply for the moment, where the greatest goal was the avoid pain and death for as long as possible... or would you take in a world that is dangerous, full of evil and horrors, but yet allow that backdrop to let the virtues and the saints shine through? A world in which everyone lives vividly alive? Which is the truly moral world, in which world are the creatures truly making any moral choice at all?
Having to choose between a safe world where your soul is a puddle of formless jelly and another where you have the potential to become something extremely evil or something unimainably good... which would it be?
There is a third, and more untried route. In involves disagreeing greatly with people, but still being able to love them. Because according to a certain curious worldview, Love is the greatest virtue. -
Urm I dont much understand much what you are saying, too cheem, but what i can offer is this
I think there is a good reason humans regulate themselves through laws, regulations and guidelines, although I am not suggesting any code thought up would simply eliminate the problems..look at the crime rates...
But its just sad that with or without codes, nuthing much seems to work, we cant expect human to self regulate their behaviour. Its even worse to see that even in religions people still can choose discard and accept what they dont like and like to fulfill self interest and prejudices. i mean, heck, its allright to accept fully the Bibles, whose gospels were chosen by church leaders, and whatever doctrines they have laid down, but not the codes or even present doctrines. Or must we wait for another 2000 years for the code to sink in like the early doctrines?
If we are waiting for humans to change like what your last lines said, well maybe it will happen, maybe not... -
think the key to this (with/without the new code of conduct) is mutual respect.
The problem with what I see this code is that its recommendation is on the Christians, for this code of conduct to really work, all regilion have to particpate and abide in it (which is almost impossible), else how can it be truely a mutual agreement/conduct? -
nobody want to lose believersOriginally posted by vince69:think the key to this (with/without the new code of conduct) is mutual respect.
The problem with what I see this code is that its recommendation is on the Christians, for this code of conduct to really work, all regilion have to particpate and abide in it (which is almost impossible), else how can it be truely a mutual agreement/conduct?
fight fight fight! -
urm, according to the article, they are holding the dialogues with all other religions and include other relevant issues too, including apostasy in Islam that almost result in a death of a Christian convert in AfghanistanOriginally posted by vince69:think the key to this (with/without the new code of conduct) is mutual respect.
The problem with what I see this code is that its recommendation is on the Christians, for this code of conduct to really work, all regilion have to particpate and abide in it (which is almost impossible), else how can it be truely a mutual agreement/conduct? -
if not wrong, the dialogues is only for the rest to voice their opinion on what they want to code of conduct to be, basically its seems more like "Tell us want you expect us to do" type.Originally posted by laurence82:urm, according to the article, they are holding the dialogues with all other religions and include other relevant issues too, including apostasy in Islam that almost result in a death of a Christian convert in Afghanistan
anyway... lets see how things goes first lah
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WCC is actually a liberal organization.
Liberals do not believe that Christ death has a salvific value. it was just to show how we should love one another.
they do not believe in the infallibility and inerrancy of the Bible. They teach that the Bible has full of errors.
They do not believe in miracles in the Bible.
they do not believe in the physical and literal resurrection of Christ.
We on the evangelical/fundamental camp cannot just have fellowship with such people as Christians fellowshipping with Christians. We consider them as unbelievers. Our stance toward them is evangelistic.
the Bible predicts a one world religion coming. WCC's goal is to unite all religions into one. -
ok
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Death and pain are not the greatest evils in the world.
Sometimes we look in all the wrong places to see evil.