Buddhism and Christianity
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Conventionally yes.Originally posted by Ito_^:christianity -> there is a god, he is three entities. noone else but him can be god, and only him alone do we get salvation into his kingdom, to overcome the world and accept the true nature of god; through faith and obedience.
buddhism -> everyone can be buddha, and we look upon inside to mature ourselves towards our true buddha nature, to understand the world and accept its true nature of our existence; through self-questioning and discovery.
correct? more or less.
Christian path is always the path of submission, submission to God.
But look deeper and you will find more similarities. -
I would like to quote Gospel of Judas - pls put aside all your thoughts of whether gospel of judas is authentic or not' first - I am just trying to convey a message.Originally posted by laoda99:'
but i tot u said buddhism dun believe in god?
The Gospel of Judas uses familiar scenes to convey unfamiliar ideas.
One day, he was with his disciples in Judea. And he found them gathered together, seated in pious observance. When he approached his disciples, offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, he laughed.
Jesus comes upon the group of disciples, and they are celebrating together what looks to be a sacred meal, maybe it is kind of like the Eucharist. And theyÂ’re offering a prayer of thanksgiving over the bread, and Jesus laughs. In fact, in the Gospel of Judas, Jesus laughs a great deal.
HeÂ’s laughing because they think theyÂ’re worshipping the true God, but in fact they have it wrong. TheyÂ’re worshipping the God who created this world, not the true God. The only one who understands is Judas.
To the Gnostics, the God who created Earth wasnÂ’t worthy of worship. Only the true God, a being beyond comprehension, was sacred. Jesus laughs at what he sees as false piety. But the apostles donÂ’t understand and grow angry at him.
Jesus: “Why have you been provoked to anger? Let any one of you who is strong enough stand and reveal to me the true spiritual person within.”
Their spirits did not dare to stand before him. Except for Judas Escariot.
Judas: “I know who you are and where you came from. I am not worthy to utter the name of the one who has sent you.”
Jesus: “Step away from the others. And I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom. It is a great and boundless realm which no eye of an angel has ever seen, no thought of the heart has ever comprehended, and it was never called by name.”
Jesus issues a challenge to the disciples. He says, let the perfect person inside of you step forward and face me. And that perfect person within is the inner person, the spiritual person, that truly knows, the person that ought to have a knowledge of God and a knowledge of oneself.
And the disciples say, well we can do that. But they couldnÂ’t do it. And so Judas steps forward. And he was able to stand before Jesus. -
Originally posted by longchen:If God can be described, then it is not uncreated. If God can be percieved, then how can it be the One?
'God' can only be understood in non-duality, when there is no two. Even the term 'God' is the mind giving the uncreated a name.
In another word, what we call 'God' cannot be a thing or entity. -
yes.Originally posted by laoda99:I believe all faiths to have flaws, Christianity, Buddhism etc...sometimes it is up to the person in the faith....u can have good or bad people who do different things...so not very accurate to say:"Ah...this faith is bad becoz XXX is bad"....
same like "XXX never commit any violence".....doesn't mean nobody in the faith never commit any acts of violence....
u can have good or bad hats in a faith/religion/watever.....it all boils down to the person......
everyone can wayang and understand the concepts of each faith, but to have faith totally and commit himself to the believe is another. so it boils down to the person in the end; but the influence is there becuz faith itself is heavily dependant on people in this world.
for me, we have to understand the fundamental differences between religions and not orcastrate an all-loving-yet-blind belief system. main reason why i do not like the new age stuff, which gives me this impression. -
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Perhaps to get a better understanding of what I'm talking about you may want to start reading what I posted in the Gospel of Judas thread first.Originally posted by Ito_^:yes.
everyone can wayang and understand the concepts of each faith, but to have faith totally and commit himself to the believe is another. so it boils down to the person in the end; but the influence is there becuz faith itself is heavily dependant on people in this world.
for me, we have to understand the fundamental differences between religions and not orcastrate an all-loving-yet-blind belief system. main reason why i do not like the new age stuff, which gives me this impression. -
haha....in this context, gnostics believe Jesus laughs becoz the disciples were praying to the lesser god, the demiurge....Originally posted by An Eternal Now:sorry for the missing blanks. I quickly typed it out when I was watching the gospel of judas and missed some parts.
wat's the msg u wanna convey??? -
Sorry pls see updated post.Originally posted by laoda99:haha....in this context, gnostics believe Jesus laughs becoz the disciples were praying to the lesser god, the demiurge....
wat's the msg u wanna convey???
Gospel of Judas does not contain the mythical things that you described.
In any ways, in Gospel of Judas, it is pointed out that the Creator that created the world is not the true God. It is just so simple. -
there is a difference between looking deeper and creating similarities den what wld be similar. asking me to look deeper may not offer me the correct answers.. besides, i probably do not have capabilities to do so, forcing wld probably lead to self-delusion.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Conventionally yes.
Christian path is always the path of submission, submission to God.
But look deeper and you will find more similarities.
e.g. dream. when a person recount a dream from his memory, sometimes he add in details after he woke up subconsiously. like i dreamt i was wearing a jacket in the rain. when i wake up and try to remember this dream, my memory becomes "i was wearing a red jacket in the rain". somehow, i just added the "red" part in after i am done with the dream. it happens. (freud)
honestly.. i can examine differences better than similarities. so i wld probably not get what you mean.. spoil me already!
god is also an entity, but also as an eternal being. the similar to what i see is that, we are trying to get into heaven one way or another, either through faith or/and works, or that is a reward that we are expected to get by believing either belief system irregardless of whether we desire purposely or not.
the only similar thing i see is that we end up in a better place than this, and the desire to attain this. the desire to be good, and the desire for the reward of being good. latter being more important for alot of people.
heck, to obtain salvation, buddhism does not require an external entity like another buddha but christianity needs a god for guidance. even the idea of heaven is different from what i see. i don't get it how these two can integrate, not that believers should start a war or anything. -
Yes, if you're still in your dualistic mode of perceiving God then you'll never understand what I was talking about. You will never be able to love unconditionally either.Originally posted by Ito_^:there is a difference between looking deeper and creating similarities den what wld be similar. asking me to look deeper may not offer me the correct answers.. besides, i probably do not have capabilities to do so, forcing wld probably lead to self-delusion.
e.g. dream. when a person recount a dream from his memory, sometimes he add in details after he woke up subconsiously. like i dreamt i was wearing a jacket in the rain. when i wake up and try to remember this dream, my memory becomes "i was wearing a red jacket in the rain". somehow, i just added the "red" part in after i am done with the dream. it happens. (freud)
honestly.. i can examine differences better than similarities. so i wld probably not get what you mean.. spoil me already!
god is also an entity, but also as an eternal being. the similar to what i see is that, we are trying to get into heaven one way or another, either through faith or/and works, or that is a reward that we are expected to get by believing either belief system irregardless of whether we desire purposely or not.
the only similar thing i see is that we end up in a better place than this, and the desire to attain this. the desire to be good, and the desire for the reward of being good. latter being more important for alot of people.
heck, to obtain salvation, buddhism does not require an external entity like another buddha but christianity needs a god for guidance. even the idea of heaven is different from what i see. i don't get it how these two can integrate, not that believers should start a war or anything.
And in this dualistic mode, you start to compare and make different everything in the world - and through this difference, you may even start to wage a war, you may wage a war because you 'my God is true your God is not true', and all the ego and dogmas and identities get sprung up into action. All these are the functions of the egoic mind, and the mystic SUBMITS himself to GOD alone, through this, HE must die before God lives in him.
But the reality is... what you are fighting for is only an illusory image. The reality is beyond all these. The mystics know. -
hmmm....but according to national geographic yes leh.....the gnostics believe the one who is not the true god is the demiurge (this thelogy is condemned by Christians as heresy). So what's the message u want to convey? Is it that all of us have a inner self that need to be awaken and then rejoin god/nature? Sound abit like Taoism leh? Mebbe u read gospel of judas in a different light than the gnostics?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Sorry pls see updated post.
Gospel of Judas does not contain the mythical things that you described.
In any ways, in Gospel of Judas, it is pointed out that the Creator that created the world is not the true God. It is just so simple.
Let me do a research for u:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04707b.htm
"according to Greek philosophy the world-maker is not necessarily identical with God, as first and supreme source of all things; he may be distinct from and inferior to the supreme spirit, though he may also be the practical expression of the reason of God, the Logos as operative in the harmony of the universe. In this sense, i.e. that of a world-maker distinct from the Supreme God, [b]Demiurge became a common term in Gnosticism. The Gnostics, however, were not satisfied merely to emphasize the distinction between the Supreme God, or God the Father, and the Demiurge, but in many of their systems they conceived the relation of the Demiurge to the Supreme God as one of actual antagonism, and the Demiurge became the personification of the power of evil, the Satan of Gnosticism, with whom the faithful had to wage war to the end that they might be pleasing to the Good God. The Gnostic Demiurge then assumes a surprising likeness to Ahriman, the evil counter-creator of Ormuzd in Mazdean philosophy. The character of the Gnostic Demiurge became still more complicated when in some systems he was identified with Jehovah, the God of the Jews or of the Old Testament, and was brought in opposition to Christ of the New Testament, the Only-Begotten Son of the Supreme and Good God. The purpose of Christ's coming as Saviour and Redeemer was to rescue us from the power of the Demiurge, the lord of the world of this darkness, and bring us to the light of the Good God, His Father in heaven. The last development in the character of the Demiurge was due to Jehovah being primarily considered as he who gave the Law on Sinai, and hence as the originator of all restraint on the human will. As the Demiurge was essentially evil, all his work was such; in consequence all law was intrinsically evil and the duty of the children of the Good God was to transgress this law and to trample upon its precepts. This led to the wildest orgies of Antinomian Gnosticism"[/b]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demiurge
Yahweh
Some Gnostic philosophers (notably Marcion of Sinope: [color=orange]this is disputed as some theologians believe there is a difference between Marcionites and gnostics) [b]identify the Demiurge with Yahweh, the God of the Old Testament, in opposition and contrast to the God of the New Testament. Still others equated the being with Satan. Catharism apparently inherited their idea of Satan as the creator of the evil world directly or indirectly from Gnosticism. Or, they may well have gotten the idea directly from the New Testament, which refers to Satan as "The God ['ho theos'] of this age" in Second Corinthians 4:4. Also, the NT asserts that the "whole world lies in the power of the evil one" in 1 John 5:19. Though nowhere in the New Testament is the creator of the world or the universe identified as Satan, although Yahweh declares in Isaiah 45:7 that He "makes good and creates evil [Hebrew "ra"]. Nor in the old or New Testament is nature or earth created by the creator referred to as evil, unlike the so-called Gnostic "sectarians." (Unless one sees the attribute of Creatorship as inherent in the concept of "God," and therefore the title "The God of this Age" applied to Satan becomes a powerful indicator that Satan is indeed the creator. Other modern-day Cathars see a further indication of this in the epithet "Kosmokrator" [Koine Greek, kosmokratoras, which literally means cosmos-sovereign, or even cosmos-might] which is applied to Satan in Ephesian 6:12, as a further indication of the creatorship of Satan and his identity with the Demiurge)[/color][/b] -
god in christian terms isn't dualistic. he is everything. so at least for this case, no, im sure im not.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes, if you're still in your dualistic mode of perceiving God then you'll never understand what I was talking about. -
erm.. im sorry, i didn't think either were wrong or right.Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes, if you're still in your dualistic mode of perceiving God then you'll never understand what I was talking about. You will never be able to love unconditionally either.
And in this dualistic mode, you start to compare and make different everything in the world - and through this difference, you may even start to wage a war, you may wage a war because you 'my God is true your God is not true', and all the ego and dogmas and identities get sprung up into action. All these are the functions of the egoic mind, and the mystic SUBMITS himself to GOD alone, through this, HE must die before God lives in him.
But the reality is... what you are fighting for is only an illusory image. The reality is beyond all these. The mystics know. -
Well interesting read - but what I'm saying is, Gospel of Judas does not contain all the mythical things that what Gnostics supposedly have.
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Sure must die first???Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Yes, if you're still in your dualistic mode of perceiving God then you'll never understand what I was talking about. You will never be able to love unconditionally either.
And in this dualistic mode, you start to compare and make different everything in the world - and through this difference, you may even start to wage a war, you may wage a war because you 'my God is true your God is not true', and all the ego and dogmas and identities get sprung up into action. All these are the functions of the egoic mind, and the mystic SUBMITS himself to GOD alone, through this, HE must die before God lives in him.
But the reality is... what you are fighting for is only an illusory image. The reality is beyond all these. The mystics know.
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so u r reading from the buddhist/mystic point of view?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Well interesting read - but what I'm saying is, Gospel of Judas does not contain all the mythical things that what Gnostics supposedly have. -
Good - now submit to that everything, that God.Originally posted by Ito_^:god in christian terms isn't dualistic. he is everything. so at least for this case, no, im sure im not. -
i don't even think buddhism is same as mystism at all.Originally posted by laoda99:so u r reading from the buddhist/mystic point of view?
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Mystics viewpoint - since Buddha didnt taught in a mystical way but a more systematic way.Originally posted by laoda99:so u r reading from the buddhist/mystic point of view? -
Why do you think so?Originally posted by Ito_^:i don't even think buddhism is same as mystism at all.
I doubt you have even read what Mysticism is about. -
yeah...somehow i think buddhism and mysticism dun mix....as buddhism has no god...mebbe i am wrong?Originally posted by Ito_^:i don't even think buddhism is same as mystism at all. -
so God is an entity and an endpoint of mystism?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Good - now submit to that everything, that God. -
reading.. reading.. u think i computer arh!Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Why do you think so?
I doubt you have even read what Mysticism is about.
ok. more or less. maybe less.. but this is and was wad i wanted to say.
mysticim seems to fall short on the "perfect union" with god and loses the "individuality" of a person, or the ego. after that, we as individuals are gone. end game, the rest wld be this god's decision on what to do. noone wld understand this part.
buddhism seems to maintain that ego in some form and progress a person through good works and merits through a (probably) endless level of realms. like buddha goes up and continues teaching the deity there on enlightenment, and degrade to a lower realm if bad karma piles up. e.g. a realm where people likes to fight each other. -
God is beyond comprehension of mind, and an 'entity' is due to comprehension of mind.Originally posted by Ito_^:so God is an entity and an endpoint of mystism?
Now submit to that.Originally posted by longchen:If God can be described, then it is not uncreated. If God can be percieved, then how can it be the One?
'God' can only be understood in non-duality, when there is no two. Even the term 'God' is the mind giving the uncreated a name.
In another word, what we call 'God' cannot be a thing or entity.
If God can be comprehended by entity or thing, then every human being will have different comprehension of God - that is why there is so much violence in the world. Even within Christianity there is so many different own egotistic view and perspective of God.
77. Jesus said, "I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came forth, and to me all attained.
Split a piece of wood; I am there.
Lift up the stone, and you will find me there." - Gospel of Thomas
This cannot be understood by the divisive mind. -
Buddhism does not believe in a personal God/creator of the Earth - just as what the Gospel of Judas described. But it does not mean there is not a higher reality.Originally posted by laoda99:yeah...somehow i think buddhism and mysticism dun mix....as buddhism has no god...mebbe i am wrong?
Of course in Buddhism we don't say 'God' because it will cause a lot of confusions.
Yet, it is the Source of all things.