I am not ashamed to say I am a Christian.....
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while these christians may not see it as a big deal, God does and Jesus does. We are asked to have compassion for others, to love thy neighbour as ourselves, it speaks to the very core of this issue, if these christians that you say do not see the big issue, then God through the Holy Spirits conviction will deal with them, otherwise, they will be like the israelites forever wondering the desert (in a spiritual sense)Originally posted by HENG@:in other words, once u believe, even if u in a fit of a loss of control, murder some people, u're also forgiven.
no wonder so many Xtians dun see it too big an issue when they hurt others. As long as they had the best of intentions, its no big deal if u end up hurting others. -
100 percent saved doesn't means u won't sin anymore, which is why we need Christ, who forgive our past, present and future sins. After all, remember Christ come for the sinners, not the righteous.
As what u say, it is not accurate to use the amount of sin as a marker of how deeply one believes.
For your final question, it is up to GOD to judge.
God Bless. Sorry I gossip abt u. I will try to do it less
Originally posted by HENG@:hmm according to laoda99 its not a free licence to sin, but he also says as long as u believe, u're 100% saved
u say a true believer will not abuse the grace, so it is not likely someone who sins more than a true believer "should" is a true believer. But I know some people who are very deep believers. They just can't help themselves sinning. They have some issues with sloth and lust, u get the idea. In this case then how? Afterall all men are supposed to be sinners, some are weaker than others. Is it accurate to use the amount of sin one commits as a marker of how deeply one believes? And if what u say is true, then a whole load of Xtians I know, are simply false believers. U look at a lot of those who devoutly attend church, but don't improve their daily lives, u'll know what I mean.
So now im even more confused as well. Are u saying as long as one's a true believer one is 100% saved? Or are u saying God reserves the right not to offer salvation to even a 'true believer'? If u're saying true believers are100% saved, then by what basis do we judge if one's a true believer, and by what basis do we judge how much a person's sins determine his status as a true believer? -
the xtians here very bad meh? Got kill pple and set fire?Originally posted by HENG@:looking at the way some Xtians behave in here n some of the things they do, how can u blame others for having a low opinion of your religion, and how do u expect them to believe?
Even amongst yourselves. everytime there are no non-believers around for u all to gang up on, straight away u see Xtians here start tearing each other's throats out. Somemore some behave like rabid dogs like that, and totally forget Jesus's teachings. How u expect people to believe when u cannot even agree on what exactly u believe in?
when me, brey, mcsquare, icemoon dun quarrel abt theology, we talk abt peanut toasts
Think u treat everything too seriously. champion
how abt take up my suggestion, open a support group for gays. -
Ahem .. let me speak like Mc2 now. Ahem.Originally posted by HENG@:from this, all i can conclude is that even amongst u Xtians, u dun have a concensous as to whether its 100% or not, and what constitues a "true believer"
Heng, you have to see it from God's perspective. It is quite meaningless to argue whether it is 100% or 99%. The question is, at the end of the day, is that person saved? And no one knows except God. Predestination! -
U more calvinist than christians....ooooooOriginally posted by Icemoon:Ahem .. let me speak like Mc2 now. Ahem.
Heng, you have to see it from God's perspective. It is quite meaningless to argue whether it is 100% or 99%. The question is, at the end of the day, is that person saved? And no one knows except God. Predestination! -
We shouldn't make fun of Ah Heng. In the first place, she wasn't trying to hide her gender.Originally posted by HENG@:do u ppl mind? im she. "she", he and gawd knows what else to u lot. Xtians allowed to gossip about others ah? Look, pick a damn pronoun for me n stick with it. U people aren't interested in what's true anyway so whatever pronoun u pick for me won't matter anyway, but quit the gossiping. -
Calvinists shift the power back to God.Originally posted by laoda99:U more calvinist than christians....oooooo
Of course, this tend to shift freedom away from the believer.
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The discussion between Heng and the Christians remind me of the tenure system. The Christians believes in lifelong tenure (i.e. for full professors).
Heng's concern is reflected by the system used in Republic Poly now. Their teaching staff are employed on 2-3 years contract. This ensures no one slackens because of complacency. -
Do u noe...when we go heaven....god rewards us accordingly? Somebody will be rewarded more becoz they standfast to the faith....while others will feel a bit shamed....Originally posted by Icemoon:The discussion between Heng and the Christians remind me of the tenure system. The Christians believes in lifelong tenure (i.e. for full professors).
Heng's concern is reflected by the system used in Republic Poly now. Their teaching staff are employed on 2-3 years contract. This ensures no one slackens because of complacency. -
Tsk.....what arh....why me arhOriginally posted by Icemoon:Ahem .. let me speak like Mc2 now. Ahem.
Heng, you have to see it from God's perspective. It is quite meaningless to argue whether it is 100% or 99%. The question is, at the end of the day, is that person saved? And no one knows except God. Predestination!
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capitalizing on your brand name.Originally posted by M©+square:Tsk.....what arh....why me arh -
election duty for me's off on saturday (coz I am on no-pay study leave)
teh-o??? -
Hmm...i think heng@ in one sense have pointed out the category of Christians who cannot effectively profess they are Christians.Originally posted by Icemoon:capitalizing on your brand name.
These are the Christians who are haunted by the shame of sin.
Not by sin itself, but by the shame...which leads to unbelief of themselves to reach out to God effectively.
Sad.
Though it's easy to be delivered through the power of the Love of God, but bondage of the mind is tricky to deal.
Mindset is casted.
e.g
Drug Addict converts
Murder
Adultery
Converts who are in constant struggle between sinning(secret sins) and worshipping God.
Of cos, not all that are mentioned are bound forever. Many got released and was used powerfully by the Holy Spirit to minister. -
Going for a Badmintion game with my friend.Originally posted by laoda99:election duty for me's off on saturday (coz I am on no-pay study leave)
teh-o??? -
My own person view on this is that it seems to have more of our own fuddleness with being unable to view things from different realities other then from our own, especially from a kind of view where time does not effectively matter and every thing then, now, and to come is effectively now. I'm not sure God sees everything that is to happen in the future, but rather in some curious way our world may have already ended for Him.Originally posted by Icemoon:Calvinists shift the power back to God.
Of course, this tend to shift freedom away from the believer.
This might be only strange because we are withing the confines of this creation and being the hybrid creatures of spirit and flesh that we are. It may not actually reflect any true incongruence between free will and omnipotence and ominiscence at all. When I transpose a higher medium into a lower one, some things are going to have to be compacted. The same note might play both the piano and the brass part.
I for that matter have no issues with God knowing everything and yet giving us utter free will to choose or reject Him. I suspect that the very reason free will might even exist at all is that He used His own Will to will it into reason, and doing so He made us moral creatures.
He maintains the processes that runs our free wills, but I seriously doubt He is trying to control every apsect of our though or has it scripted out (as much as He knows what choice I will make). What it seems to me is that He's trying to get our wills to align to His own through a curious method of wooing. In us He deliberately makes Himself small by allowing us the freedom to choose yet Him.
It seems to me that He's reacting to our wills, instead of controlling us. Reacting in such a fashion that still leaves us effectively free to choose. If you ask me there is only one real choice to make in this life, and that is to walk to Him or away... seems to me all other choices are just subsets of this ultimate reality in our universe. -
in other words, once u believe, even if u in a fit of a loss of control, murder some people, u're also forgiven.
I suspect that indeed suffering and pain might be a strong sign of an all-Good God. Being the way we all, the more we believe our doctor or dentist is good, the more we realize they must cut and drill to cure us. We might be sastified with only the stopping of the pain from a toothache, but the dentist might want the entire tooth out, or the crooked teeth fixed for that matter.
no wonder so many Xtians dun see it too big an issue when they hurt others. As long as they had the best of intentions, its no big deal if u end up hurting others.
A cancer victim knows only the pain of the disease, but the doctor knows that it requires a cutting of the body, removal of the tumour, and the long and painful recovery for the body to be truly well again.
I am not convinced that the best thing to do is to avoid hurting others at all costs, it may very well be hrting them through inaction.