I am not ashamed to say I am a Christian.....
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Eh! You don't trust Icemoon or you don't trust the power of God ah?Originally posted by laoda99:that would be MI4
I know your answer. I'd answer the same too!
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Actually laoda is grace and that is it. Keeping the commandments not so important coz you are already saved by grace.... to laoda, OT not important too... but it is important to me...it contains all my blessings...Originally posted by vince69:Brey, Laoda
seems to me the two of you are trying to make the same point/idea, if I wrong, pls correct me.
Laoda
Salvation by grace, follow the commandments to show our love for God
Brey
Salvation by grace, following of the commandments is because of the love of God.
For me, it is grace and then understand who God is and what God's heart is and know the commandments and have a full understanding of how they apply and then keep them. The commandments espouse all that we need to know in keeping our relationship with both God and fellow man. -
Different Emphasis.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Actually laoda is grace and that is it. Keeping the commandments not so important coz you are already saved by grace.... to laoda, OT not important too... but it is important to me...it contains all my blessings...
For me, it is grace and then understand who God is and what God's heart is and know the commandments and have a full understanding of how they apply and then keep them. The commandments espouse all that we need to know in keeping our relationship with both God and fellow man. -
already did that...Originally posted by Icemoon:Move on.
Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.
Answer the real questions posted by people like Ah Heng. -
"thou shall not commit adultery!"Originally posted by breytonhartge:I think it is clear as to which commandments this verse refers to, but i will leave it here ok?
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I think Icemoon would make "her" fall in love with him; "she" seem comfortable with Icemoon, but dun think "she" will be converted. Will bet all my money on it.....oops.....I am Christian so I shouldn't gamble.....Originally posted by M©+square:Eh! You don't trust Icemoon or you don't trust the power of God ah?
I know your answer. I'd answer the same too! -
eh.. making mountains out of a molehill helping with your rating issues leh... like that also not happy ar???Originally posted by Icemoon:Move on.
Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.
Answer the real questions posted by people like Ah Heng. -
Mc2 alreadt say I hopeless liao.Originally posted by breytonhartge:eh.. making mountains out of a molehill helping with your rating issues leh... like that also not happy ar???
If I continue my pursuit for numbers, then EH will no longer be edifying.
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Orh, you'll await Raptured's sermon to rain down on you.Originally posted by laoda99:I think Icemoon would make "her" fall in love with him; "she" seem comfortable with Icemoon, but dun think "she" will be converted. Will bet all my money on it.....oops.....I am Christian so I shouldn't gamble.....
I realise Icemoon didn't reply to my previous post.
Hmmm..... -
Li Hua Hee Tio Ho. - You happy Can Already.Originally posted by Icemoon:Mc2 alreadt say I hopeless liao.
If I continue my pursuit for numbers, then EH will no longer be edifying. -
Actually she is comfortable with people who don't treat homosexuality as sinful.Originally posted by laoda99:I think Icemoon would make "her" fall in love with him; "she" seem comfortable with Icemoon, but dun think "she" will be converted. Will bet all my money on it.....oops.....I am Christian so I shouldn't gamble.....
She is comfortable with Lau also, I guess. -
Sometimes I am a bit confused.....Originally posted by M©+square:Orh, you'll await Raptured's sermon to rain down on you.
I realise Icemoon didn't reply to my previous post.
Hmmm.....
it seems that all the posts I seen are from Repented John
Raptured / Elder / Casino_king and so on, they all look the same to me... -
I said i love Heng...but he run away from me....Originally posted by Icemoon:Actually she is comfortable with people who don't treat homosexuality as sinful.
She is comfortable with Lau also, I guess. -
hmmm... ok lah... let me add some petrol here...Originally posted by breytonhartge:Actually laoda is grace and that is it. Keeping the commandments not so important coz you are already saved by grace.... to laoda, OT not important too... but it is important to me...it contains all my blessings...
For me, it is grace and then understand who God is and what God's heart is and know the commandments and have a full understanding of how they apply and then keep them. The commandments espouse all that we need to know in keeping our relationship with both God and fellow man.
like this says, the both also not complete, cause Laoda address the why and Brey address the how.
1) We are saved by the grace of God through the finished work of Christ.
2) We are saved so that we can do good works.
3) We want to do good works/keep the commandments/do the right things is because we love God who first loved us.
4) the real how/why lies in the Holy Spirit who God gave us to constantly remind us the things of the Lords, His works, His commandments and also put the desire to do these in our hearts and not just so, He will also guide us and enable us to to them as well.
Meaning, through the Holy Spirit, we are given the desire/ability/understanding to do good works/ obey the commandments.
5) back to grace, pls remember, very important, even when we failed to follow the Holy Spirit to fully obey the commandments, and we falls, there is still grace sufficiant enough for us to stand up and continue again.
This is how I understand Jer31 :31-34
31 "The time is coming," declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to [d] them, [e] "
declares the LORD.
33 "This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,"
declares the LORD.
"For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more." -
Originally posted by laoda99:
this doesn't answer my question at all. if someone who believes in Christ doesn't reduce the amounts of sins he commits(altho this is not to say he sins like hell) then is he 100% saved anyway?
No...it is said in the bible that this does not give us a free license to sin, as seen in: Romans 6:1. This has been discussed many times in EH.
[b]"1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 May it never be! We who died to sin, how could we live in it any longer?
3 Or don't you know that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death?
4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism to death, that just like Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we also might walk in newness of life.
The actual belief, whether u believe or not, are guaranteed 100% salvation if u believe in Christ.
If we do not believe we are saved, then our preaching to non-christians would be in vain.
How can we preach to non-christians that they are saved if we ourselves dun believe that we are saved by Christ?
Unbelievers are given a chance to know God. One thing to note: u can turn away from God, but he will never forsake u.
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hmm according to laoda99 its not a free licence to sin, but he also says as long as u believe, u're 100% savedOriginally posted by breytonhartge:John 12:46-48 (New King James Version)
46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe,[a] I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
Romans 10:8-10 (New King James Version)
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”[a](that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Hebrews 10:28-30 (New King James Version)
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”[a] says the Lord.[b] And again, “The LORD will judge His people.”[c]
Galatians 5:13 (New King James Version)
13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
It is clear from these verses that
those who do not believe will be judged not by Jesus, but by the words which Jesus has spoken. if we confess with our mouth and believe in our heart we will be saved the grace given is not a licence to sin wilfully that if we take for granted God's grace, we will be judged, if you read through the book of revelation, when the angel talks about the seven churches, it talks about God's judgement on the church.
The curx here being a true and sincere repentance of the heart and always and forever keeping in that state of gratefulness for God's grace and having a soft heart that is obedient before God. If a person confesses that he believes and then does not have the works to back it up, do you not think that the Lord will not see? It is already said in the bible, in Isaiah 29:13 that the Lords people draw near to Him with their lips, but their hearts are far away...
If we truly believe and repent, then we will not walk another way, we will not abuse the grace that is given because it is a prized gift. We will cherish it. Those who do not will only have to face the consequences as stated in Hebrews 10. If you sin, God will judge you, but you will not lose your salvation, unless you completely reject the Lord again and go back to your old ways...
God's judgment here is with an eye to correction and not just punishment for the sake of punishment. God's judgement here is so that we are made aware of our faults so that we work towards overcoming them in His grace, by His guidance as we yeild our spirits, soul and body to Him.
Proverbs 3:11
My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD, Nor detest His correction;
Proverbs 3:12
For whom the LORD loves He corrects, Just as a father the son in whom he delights.
Know that by Yeshua's work on the cross, our pardon is 100% assured if we believe in our hearts and confess with our mouths... but it still does not mean we do not have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, being mindful always of God's grace so that when we sin(and this not the wilful type of sinning and taking the grace of God cheaply), we can come back to the Lord and repent, for we are now no longer under condemnation. But note that our walk is according to the Spirit and not the flesh...
Rom 8:1
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Philippians 2:12
[ Light Bearers ] Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling;
u say a true believer will not abuse the grace, so it is not likely someone who sins more than a true believer "should" is a true believer. But I know some people who are very deep believers. They just can't help themselves sinning. They have some issues with sloth and lust, u get the idea. In this case then how? Afterall all men are supposed to be sinners, some are weaker than others. Is it accurate to use the amount of sin one commits as a marker of how deeply one believes? And if what u say is true, then a whole load of Xtians I know, are simply false believers. U look at a lot of those who devoutly attend church, but don't improve their daily lives, u'll know what I mean.
So now im even more confused as well. Are u saying as long as one's a true believer one is 100% saved? Or are u saying God reserves the right not to offer salvation to even a 'true believer'? If u're saying true believers are100% saved, then by what basis do we judge if one's a true believer, and by what basis do we judge how much a person's sins determine his status as a true believer? -
im comfortable with people who treat their fellow humans as humans, instead of going out of their way to make people's lives miserable. people who are sensible, humane and compassionate. Not zealous people who let blind passion overshadow everything it means to be human.Originally posted by Icemoon:Actually she is comfortable with people who don't treat homosexuality as sinful.
She is comfortable with Lau also, I guess. -
do u ppl mind? im she. "she", he and gawd knows what else to u lot. Xtians allowed to gossip about others ah? Look, pick a damn pronoun for me n stick with it. U people aren't interested in what's true anyway so whatever pronoun u pick for me won't matter anyway, but quit the gossiping.
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When God says in Roman 8:1-4 "There is now no more condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus", He really means no more condemnation.Originally posted by HENG@:this doesn't answer my question at all. if someone who believes in Christ doesn't reduce the amounts of sins he commits(altho this is not to say he sins like hell) then is he 100% saved anyway?
Does this means Christian will go around doing lawless/sinful deeds using this as a licence to sin? certainly not, its not to be in our character anymore.
Does Christian still sin/make mistakes? certainly yes
We need to diffentiate between intentional and unintentional deeds.
If a person continues to willfully and intentional commit sin, we need to question the reality of his conversions.
On the other hand, we do get angry, make mistake, and sometimes even falls into sins, when this happen, we need to know that "There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus", and that there is grace sufficient enough for us to repent and move on.
hope this answer your question
God bless -
looking at the way some Xtians behave in here n some of the things they do, how can u blame others for having a low opinion of your religion, and how do u expect them to believe?
Even amongst yourselves. everytime there are no non-believers around for u all to gang up on, straight away u see Xtians here start tearing each other's throats out. Somemore some behave like rabid dogs like that, and totally forget Jesus's teachings. How u expect people to believe when u cannot even agree on what exactly u believe in? -
Once saved, means 100% always saved, and 100% means 100%Originally posted by HENG@:hmm according to laoda99 its not a free licence to sin, but he also says as long as u believe, u're 100% saved
u say a true believer will not abuse the grace, so it is not likely someone who sins more than a true believer "should" is a true believer. But I know some people who are very deep believers. They just can't help themselves sinning. They have some issues with sloth and lust, u get the idea. In this case then how? Afterall all men are supposed to be sinners, some are weaker than others. Is it accurate to use the amount of sin one commits as a marker of how deeply one believes? And if what u say is true, then a whole load of Xtians I know, are simply false believers. U look at a lot of those who devoutly attend church, but don't improve their daily lives, u'll know what I mean.
So now im even more confused as well. Are u saying as long as one's a true believer one is 100% saved? Or are u saying God reserves the right not to offer salvation to even a 'true believer'? If u're saying true believers are100% saved, then by what basis do we judge if one's a true believer, and by what basis do we judge how much a person's sins determine his status as a true believer?
personally, this is how you can see a true believer, who had received salvation through Christ by the grace of God, and received the Holy Spirit that God had promised to every believer....
slowly, and soon, you will notice the fruit of the Spirit manifest in this person's life.
God bless -
in other words, once u believe, even if u in a fit of a loss of control, murder some people, u're also forgiven.Originally posted by vince69:When God says in Roman 8:1-4 "There is now no more condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus", He really means no more condemnation.
Does this means Christian will go around doing lawless/sinful deeds using this as a licence to sin? certainly not, its not to be in our character anymore.
Does Christian still sin/make mistakes? certainly yes
We need to diffentiate between intentional and unintentional deeds.
If a person continues to willfully and intentional commit sin, we need to question the reality of his conversions.
On the other hand, we do get angry, make mistake, and sometimes even falls into sins, when this happen, we need to know that "There is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus", and that there is grace sufficient enough for us to repent and move on.
hope this answer your question
God bless
no wonder so many Xtians dun see it too big an issue when they hurt others. As long as they had the best of intentions, its no big deal if u end up hurting others. -
from this, all i can conclude is that even amongst u Xtians, u dun have a concensous as to whether its 100% or not, and what constitues a "true believer"Originally posted by vince69:Once saved, means 100% always saved, and 100% means 100%
personally, this is how you can see a true believer, who had received salvation through Christ by the grace of God, and received the Holy Spirit that God had promised to every believer....
slowly, and soon, you will notice the fruit of the Spirit manifest in this person's life.
God bless -
Once one is a true believer, one is 100% saved, the basis for judging is the contriteness of our hearts and sincere repentance. It is not the sin, or the number of times we sin, but whether we have a heart that would "convict" us to bring us back to repentance and to go back to God to confess our sins, because the bible says that God will forgive us if we confess our sins.Originally posted by HENG@:hmm according to laoda99 its not a free licence to sin, but he also says as long as u believe, u're 100% saved
u say a true believer will not abuse the grace, so it is not likely someone who sins more than a true believer "should" is a true believer. But I know some people who are very deep believers. They just can't help themselves sinning. They have some issues with sloth and lust, u get the idea. In this case then how? Afterall all men are supposed to be sinners, some are weaker than others. Is it accurate to use the amount of sin one commits as a marker of how deeply one believes? And if what u say is true, then a whole load of Xtians I know, are simply false believers. U look at a lot of those who devoutly attend church, but don't improve their daily lives, u'll know what I mean.
So now im even more confused as well. Are u saying as long as one's a true believer one is 100% saved? Or are u saying God reserves the right not to offer salvation to even a 'true believer'? If u're saying true believers are100% saved, then by what basis do we judge if one's a true believer, and by what basis do we judge how much a person's sins determine his status as a true believer?
But being a true believer does not entitle us to sin wilfully, God will only allow this to go on for a time before He will rebuke and correct us, contrary to some who believe that grace is all and that we will never need to face up to what we do wrong. God is a Holy God and cannot stand sin, that is why we need Yeshua as our righteousness. -
This is what I have been saying all along... sighhhhhhh.....Originally posted by vince69:hmmm... ok lah... let me add some petrol here...
like this says, the both also not complete, cause Laoda address the why and Brey address the how.
1) We are saved by the grace of God through the finished work of Christ.
2) We are saved so that we can do good works.
3) We want to do good works/keep the commandments/do the right things is because we love God who first loved us.
4) the real how/why lies in the Holy Spirit who God gave us to constantly remind us the things of the Lords, His works, His commandments and also put the desire to do these in our hearts and not just so, He will also guide us and enable us to to them as well.
Meaning, through the Holy Spirit, we are given the desire/ability/understanding to do good works/ obey the commandments.
5) back to grace, pls remember, very important, even when we failed to follow the Holy Spirit to fully obey the commandments, and we falls, there is still grace sufficiant enough for us to stand up and continue again.