I am not ashamed to say I am a Christian.....
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Originally posted by Icemoon:
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Likely because either party are NOT willing to try understand what the other party meant.Originally posted by whereismyrib:
Because the members here have not come to a consensus. -
John 12:46-48 (New King James Version)Originally posted by HENG@:does this mean u can sin as much as u want and heaven is guarenteed? Or does this mean u have a chance to be pardoned by God on judgement day?
see some Xtians think as long as they are believers they get 100% guarenteed automatic salvation.
but isn't the actual belief more like, u get a CHANCE of being pardoned if u believe, and that this pardon is not 100% guarenteed?
an anaolgy would be like non-believer has no chance of a "parole hearing" at all, while a believer has a "parole hearing" but might not make "parole"?
46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness. 47 And if anyone hears My words and does not believe,[a] I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world but to save the world. 48 He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him—the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day.
Romans 10:8-10 (New King James Version)
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”[a](that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Hebrews 10:28-30 (New King James Version)
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”[a] says the Lord.[b] And again, “The LORD will judge His people.”[c]
Galatians 5:13 (New King James Version)
13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another.
It is clear from these verses that
those who do not believe will be judged not by Jesus, but by the words which Jesus has spoken. if we confess with our mouth and believe in our heart we will be saved the grace given is not a licence to sin wilfully that if we take for granted God's grace, we will be judged, if you read through the book of revelation, when the angel talks about the seven churches, it talks about God's judgement on the church.
The curx here being a true and sincere repentance of the heart and always and forever keeping in that state of gratefulness for God's grace and having a soft heart that is obedient before God. If a person confesses that he believes and then does not have the works to back it up, do you not think that the Lord will not see? It is already said in the bible, in Isaiah 29:13 that the Lords people draw near to Him with their lips, but their hearts are far away...
If we truly believe and repent, then we will not walk another way, we will not abuse the grace that is given because it is a prized gift. We will cherish it. Those who do not will only have to face the consequences as stated in Hebrews 10. If you sin, God will judge you, but you will not lose your salvation, unless you completely reject the Lord again and go back to your old ways...
God's judgment here is with an eye to correction and not just punishment for the sake of punishment. God's judgement here is so that we are made aware of our faults so that we work towards overcoming them in His grace, by His guidance as we yeild our spirits, soul and body to Him.
Proverbs 3:11
My son, do not despise the chastening of the LORD, Nor detest His correction;
Proverbs 3:12
For whom the LORD loves He corrects, Just as a father the son in whom he delights.
Know that by Yeshua's work on the cross, our pardon is 100% assured if we believe in our hearts and confess with our mouths... but it still does not mean we do not have to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, being mindful always of God's grace so that when we sin(and this not the wilful type of sinning and taking the grace of God cheaply), we can come back to the Lord and repent, for we are now no longer under condemnation. But note that our walk is according to the Spirit and not the flesh...
Rom 8:1
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.
Philippians 2:12
[ Light Bearers ] Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; -
You forgot Laoda is on holiday now, very sianz meh??Originally posted by Icemoon:If they can do this until end of month .. then we confirm *trounce* our neighbour.
Laoda is a godsend. last time it was mostly his credit EH got a 50+ rating right?
give him some encouragement lah, maybe he can help you double the record -
There is nothing for me to reconcile because i understand fully that I AM SAVED BY GRACE, but still have to try to keep the commandments because they are the basic guide to Christian living. If you truly understand the verse you have quoted here, you will also understand that because we have a saviour that has already shown us how to keep the commandments, it is an example for us to follow so that they are not burdens anymore and have become light...Originally posted by laoda99:Jesus is not a task master. He says:"Come to me, those who are weary, and I will give u rest." He never say:" Come to me, and follow all the commandments until u are very tired"
How do u recouncil those verses which I have quoted in my other threads? If it is a MUST that we should follow all the commandments, then there is no need for Christ to come. We can still be saved by following all the commandments.
The following of the commandments in this regard, comes after salvation by grace. In this flesh, none of us will keep God's laws perfectly, but God's laws must pattern our life. We are commanded in 1 John 5:3, "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
FYI, I cannot recouncil your verses.... -
Originally posted by breytonhartge:
Those are not my verses, they are from the bible brey. Unless u are reading a different bible.
There is nothing for me to reconcile because i understand fully that I AM SAVED BY GRACE, but still have to try to keep the commandments because they are the basic guide to Christian living. If you truly understand the verse you have quoted here, you will also understand that because we have a saviour that has already shown us how to keep the commandments, it is an example for us to follow so that they are not burdens anymore and have become light...
The following of the commandments in this regard, comes after salvation by grace. In this flesh, none of us will keep God's laws perfectly, but God's laws must pattern our life. We are commanded in 1 John 5:3, "For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. [b]And His commandments are not burdensome.
FYI, I cannot recouncil your verses.... [/b]
I think for the umpteen times i have said: We keep the commandments to show our love for god.
Grace is the most important thing for a Christian to know, and it is through grace that Christians are able to keep them (commandments). This u have already said in your previous posts. -
Originally posted by breytonhartge:
This statement is very powerful.
[b]And His commandments are not burdensome.
[/b]
It has been a long time since i've heard anyone said that.
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To what kind of commandments were referred? I don't know. But that statement was one of the statement which delivered me from being a 'middle-zone believer'(if this zone ever existed?) -
actually, i understand where he is coming from, but he is only telling half the story... i do not think though that he has a comprehension of what I am saying...Originally posted by M©+square:Likely because either party are NOT willing to try understand what the other party meant.
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Yes, the both of you are talking about the same thing. Just presented at different perspective.Originally posted by laoda99:Those are not my verses, they are from the bible brey.
I think for the umpteen times i have said: We keep the commandments to show our love for god.
Grace is the most important thing for a Christian to know, and it is through grace that Christians are able to keep them. This u have already said in your previous posts.
Brey and Laoda. Move on yeah? -
and I pray you read it with understanding...Originally posted by laoda99:I am really tired arguing with u. I am going to rest in God's grace and be a better Christian by reading the bible more. -
Yup....let u win la.....ok?Originally posted by breytonhartge:actually, i understand where he is coming from, but he is only telling half the story... i do not think though that he has a comprehension of what I am saying...
I stood by what I said. Think I said enuff. -
actually no, we are not talking about the same thing. but oh well...Originally posted by M©+square:Yes, the both of you are talking about the same thing. Just presented at different perspective.
Brey and Laoda. Move on yeah?
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erm .. isn't this what Brey is saying generally?Originally posted by laoda99:Those are not my verses, they are from the bible brey.
I think for the umpteen times i have said: We keep the commandments to show our love for god.
Grace is the most important thing for a Christian to know, and it is through grace that Christians are able to keep them. This u have already said in your previous posts. -
ok!!!!!!!!Originally posted by M©+square:Yes, the both of you are talking about the same thing. Just presented at different perspective.
Brey and Laoda. Move on yeah? -
Wah lauz.....stubbornz.
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thank you!Originally posted by Icemoon:erm .. isn't this what Brey is saying generally? -
Brey, Laoda
seems to me the two of you are trying to make the same point/idea, if I wrong, pls correct me.
Laoda
Salvation by grace, follow the commandments to show our love for God
Brey
Salvation by grace, following of the commandments is because of the love of God.
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it is not about winning but having a deeper understanding of what it means to be a Christian.Originally posted by laoda99:Yup....let u win la.....ok?
I stood by what I said. Think I said enuff.
Grace is only the initial message, it is the milk, we are admonished in the bible to not always keep feeding on milk but to move on to eating solid food! -
CORRECT lor!!!!Originally posted by vince69:Brey, Laoda
seems to me the two of you are trying to make the same point/idea, if I wrong, pls correct me.
Laoda
Salvation by grace, follow the commandments to show our love for God
Brey
Salvation by grace, following of the commandments is because of the love of God.
Also don't know why all the threads haunted by this issue leh.
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Originally posted by laoda99:ok!!!!!!!!
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Move on.Originally posted by M©+square:Yes, the both of you are talking about the same thing. Just presented at different perspective.
Brey and Laoda. Move on yeah?
Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.
Answer the real questions posted by people like Ah Heng. -
I think it is clear as to which commandments this verse refers to, but i will leave it here ok?Originally posted by M©+square:This statement is very powerful.
It has been a long time since i've heard anyone said that.
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To what kind of commandments were referred? I don't know. But that statement was one of the statement which delivered me from being a 'middle-zone believer'(if this zone ever existed?) -
I appoint you to do it.Originally posted by Icemoon:Move on.
Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.
Answer the real questions posted by people like Ah Heng.
Go forth and convert Heng! -
that would be MI4Originally posted by M©+square:I appoint you to do it.
Go forth and convert Heng! -
maybe they are trying to help CRO make bigger mountainsOriginally posted by Icemoon:Move on.
Don't make a mountain out of a mole hill.
Answer the real questions posted by people like Ah Heng.