split personality of some forumers at EH?
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What good is of any claim to u if u have an unbelieving heart?Originally posted by casino_king:I think you really need to be spoonfed otherwise you will not have any idea.
Supernatural or otherwise, if you can provide good evidence of any supernatural claims I will be the first in line to believe it.
If you are talking about supernatural claims made by your pastor or your monk... you know the answer.
However, it will be good if u can experience it for yourself god's revelation. For me my experience is not becoz it is "supernatural"
that makes me believe, but how it change my life, values and beliefs.
Sometimes by asking for a sign is like challenging god and putting him on trial at the stand - u will never believe even when there are signs and most important of all, no sign will be given to u unless ur heart changes -
Exactly what I wanted to hear from Christians... except that when you come from my perspective, which is a wider perspective than that of followers of particular religions; what that means is that even Buddhists and Muslims can make those claims.Originally posted by laoda99:What good is of any claim to u if u have an unbelieving heart?
However, it will be good if u can experience it for yourself god's revelation. For me my experience is not becoz it is "supernatural"
that makes me believe, but how it change my life, values and beliefs.
Sometimes by asking for a sign is like challenging god and putting him on trial at the stand - u will never believe even when there are signs and most important of all, no sign will be given to u unless ur heart changes -
so what do u believe in?Originally posted by casino_king:Exactly what I wanted to hear from Christians... except that when you come from my perspective, which is a wider perspective than that of followers of particular religions; what that means is that even Buddhists and Muslims can make those claims. -
Me personally... I do not think that important; we are in a forum and what one believes personally is not important.Originally posted by laoda99:so what do u believe in?
What is important is that we come to a consensus as to what religious Faith is. -
Hmph, I seriously doubt anybody believes in anything out of sheer reason. Even the scientific method is not taken in out of reason, but because the people who cling to it believe that it is the most reasonable thing of all.
This reason for belief does not come for the scientific method itself, but rather from a band of reasoning above and beyond the method that we use to be a judge of which methods are better then the others. Obviously one chooses any method for certain merits in it, but the way of reasoning that these merits are merits come from above and beyond these systems.
The real argument is not if Christianity is 'scientific', or if science is 'Christian', but as to really if being 'scientific' or 'Christian' is the way to go at all, on what grounds and what reasons? It's really no point for Casino King, or any of his counterparts to claim their own belief system as superior or an all-imposing absolute if they start the basis for their belief on something faulty to begin with.
Now my notion is... is Casino King's basic logic for his seemingly unwavering belief in the scienfitic method flawed in the first place? I believe there are some very questionable areas to begin with. -
Good point; show me something better than the "scientific method" and I will abandon it immediately. Talk is cheap.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Hmph, I seriously doubt anybody believes in anything out of sheer reason. Even the scientific method is not taken in out of reason, but because the people who cling to it believe that it is the most reasonable thing of all.
This reason for belief does not come for the scientific method itself, but rather from a band of reasoning above and beyond the method that we use to be a judge of which methods are better then the others. Obviously one chooses any method for certain merits in it, but the way of reasoning that these merits are merits come from above and beyond these systems.
The real argument is not if Christianity is 'scientific', or if science is 'Christian', but as to really if being 'scientific' or 'Christian' is the way to go at all, on what grounds and what reasons? It's really no point for Casino King, or any of his counterparts to claim their own belief system as superior or an all-imposing absolute if they start the basis for their belief on something faulty to begin with.
Now my notion is... is Casino King's basic logic for his seemingly unwavering belief in the scienfitic method flawed in the first place? I believe there are some very questionable areas to begin with. -
Huh? what are you talkng about? Personal belief is perhaps the most important thing!Originally posted by casino_king:Me personally... I do not think that important; we are in a forum and what one believes personally is not important.
What is important is that we come to a consensus as to what religious Faith is.
The notion that there ought to be a consensus on a certain truth, and the regardment of that truth as the 'truth' would be total nonsense! While personal beliefs can be made to align to certain ideas of thought, they cannot be taken simply out for consensus' motives. This would then be the bane of any system of though, be it religon and science. Where would relativity be if dear Albert decided it was better to stick with popular notions of gravity? Where would we be if Jesus decided not to reveal anything new cos the old system had been going on for a while and it was best not to disturb it? Disaster I tell you!
True believers would want to form a personal belief on truth, and hold to that, as opposed to having somebody elses' faith. All belief systems have grown out from personal belief at some point of time, and they are a view on absolute truth. Our main arguments of course, is if this or that certain personal view gets closer to the absolute truth or not. All men interested in debate accept this principle, if not there would be nothing to debate about in the first place should be not believe that there is an absolute.
I did not for a moment think 'to hell with your standard', but yet of course, I see a common ground by which you, even by your own reasonings, ought to see things in certain ways more congruent with my own.
So yes, what you personally believe is of paramount importance. If that is not expressed then there would be nothing to talk about at all... what good is reaching any 'agreement' on Religious Faith when the debaters decide their personal ideas on it don't matter in trying to determine it? It's as good as saying nothing, and a rejection of reason in the first place. I am surprised to hear this coming out of you. -
Aye, I did not think I deserve the 'talk is cheap' comment, especially since I decided to answer you with much careful thought and not with statements I did not honestly think I could not back up. Surely it is unjustified to hold such a low opinion of me? As much as we have differences, do differences justify certain malices?Originally posted by casino_king:Good point; show me something better than the "scientific method" and I will abandon it immediately. Talk is cheap.
But since you so ask I shall indulge you.
I must immediately refer you to the curious notion as to why you think the 'scientific method' is the best. Now lets throw all religious notions of faith and that out of the window for a moment and assume that God does not matter or exist and that Christianity is nonsense and in no competition with science.
Very well then, lets say you are right and we are in such a universe then... why would you consider the 'scientific method' the best? Do you not regard it as a very curious notion that unless one had grounds in believing in something being the best he has no right in making claims to it as being the best.
Now before I get started on anything, I would like to wonder indeed why is the 'scientific method' considered the best indeed? -
erm... of course you do realize i wait for your response.
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If it is unimportant to state what one believes, why bother to run down people who does not believe the way you believe?Originally posted by casino_king:Me personally... I do not think that important; we are in a forum and what one believes personally is not important.
What is important is that we come to a consensus as to what religious Faith is.
How to come to a consensus on what faith is with someone who does not believe the importance (or the validity) of religion? -
The talk is cheap statement refers to the notion that the scientific method is flawed without coming out with any alternatives and reasoning behind the assertion.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:erm... of course you do realize i wait for your response.
In all your well considered post, where may I ask is your better alternative to the scientific method? BTW please acquaint yourself with what the scientific method is all about. -
for more than the 3rd time, got something better than wikipedia or not?Originally posted by casino_king: -
+1Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:erm... of course you do realize i wait for your response. -
Originally posted by laoda99:Sometimes icemoon seems to sway here sway there until we do not know what he believe in...he seem to be jewish sometimes, sometimes charismatic, sometimes RC and sometimes evangelical....the only thing i know is he is crazy abt ratings and like to watch fire from the fence, and of coz adding a few fires on his own occasionally to improve ratings
Repented John sometimes sound repented but sometimes not
now i wonder brey - is he jewish or christian?
MCSQUARE - now i know better about him. He is a christian who do not go church.
The more consistent ones are Uncle Chin Eng, SIS, Ironside, laurance, heng@ and some others.
glad to know im consistantly anti-Xtian. at least im consistant
Brey is Xtian as far as I know. Icemoon is... ayah icemoon just likes to crap bah.
repented john is a hypocrite. fundamentalist xtian perhaps. hes the dangerous one who has a lot of wrong ideas for sure. -
so im not the only one who thinks he's seems too fundamentalist n extreme to be a xtian ah? the hypocrisy from him is just incredible.Originally posted by laurence82:Most worrisome of them all, the one I highlighted -
how come that debate between sgtyrannosaur n casino king involves them asking each other questions in response to questions?
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i am really psychotic lah ok...
so if things dont make sense, thats because the voices in my head are telling me what to do... -
Actually technically speaking, I'm also a believer.Originally posted by M©+square:
Why must cap my nick...
I'm not a Christian. I'm just a believer.
But believer in what? This is the question .. -
Let's just say the Jewish interpretation of Scripture makes more sense than the Christian one. Just look at how Christians interpret the 10 commandments you know .. the Decalogue was given to show man's utter inability to follow them?Come on .. this is so "off" considering Jesus personally reduced the Decalogue to 2 commandments, which does not contradict the Jewish position.Originally posted by laoda99:Sometimes icemoon seems to sway here sway there until we do not know what he believe in...he seem to be jewish sometimes, sometimes charismatic, sometimes RC and sometimes evangelical....the only thing i know is he is crazy abt ratings and like to watch fire from the fence, and of coz adding a few fires on his own occasionally to improve ratings
In essence, Jesus is saying:
1. Love God.
2. Love your neighbours.
The Tanakh supports this view. -
Don't be an idiot.Originally posted by casino_king:Good point; show me something better than the "scientific method" and I will abandon it immediately. Talk is cheap.
No respectable scientist (other than those clouded in atheism) will use the "scientific method" to evaluate religious faith! -
By trying to justify yourself thru the law is in vain, and in actual fact, belittling the salvation that god gives u thru christ.Originally posted by Icemoon:Let's just say the Jewish interpretation of Scripture makes more sense than the Christian one. Just look at how Christians interpret the 10 commandments you know .. the Decalogue was given to show man's utter inability to follow them?Come on .. this is so "off" considering Jesus personally reduced the Decalogue to 2 commandments, which does not contradict the Jewish position.
In essence, Jesus is saying:
1. Love God.
2. Love your neighbours.
The Tanakh supports this view.
Salvation cannot be earned. It is freely given thru Christ. -
laoda,
two things:
1. God is spelt with a capital G, even the bible does that. This is to distinguish between the gods out there and God as the one true God.
2. I am a christian and when I say that I mean I believe in Jesus, that He died to save me from my sins and that through Him, I have salvation and eternal life. I also believe in the bible as the true LIVING Word of God and all that it is in it is truth. I try to follow the example that Jesus gave us and I also go back to biblical or hebraic roots which is how the early christians (who were Jews by the way) did things. They would have understood keeping the sabbath, they would have understood celebration of the Lords feasts. Even Paul, was a Jew and he would not have done any different.
Understand whos children we are becoming and then understand or Father and our GOD. -
Not religious faith... claims by religious people... idiot.Originally posted by Icemoon:Don't be an idiot.
No respectable scientist (other than those clouded in atheism) will use the "scientific method" to evaluate religious faith! -
So u mean to say u not hypocrite? U always right?Originally posted by HENG@:
glad to know im consistantly anti-Xtian. at least im consistant
Brey is Xtian as far as I know. Icemoon is... ayah icemoon just likes to crap bah.
repented john is a hypocrite. fundamentalist xtian perhaps. hes the dangerous one who has a lot of wrong ideas for sure.
At least i dare to speak up what's in my mind. I am no hypocrite then. What's so hypocritical abt speaking my ideas? This is a free country altho not as free as the US! I always wanted to be an american. Better still an ang moh as i have stated before. God bless America & of course God bless Singapore!