"Middle zone" Christianity
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all right .. now no more Temple liao .. how they atone for their sins then?Originally posted by Repented John 2:Well on their own strength which they failed miserably.
So they still have to atone for their sins by the temple sacrifices.
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Yah lor, so it depends on perspective right? To the follower it will no doubt be cheap (compared with other religions). But to God it is costly.Originally posted by Repented John 2:I thot Ps Prince preached we focus on God not on ourselves. How can we focus on ourselves? We are told to remember what Jesus has done for us not what we can do by ourselves. So grace isnt cheap after all. It's ppl who abuse it & treat it as cheap. It's cheap on their parts but expensive on Christ's part. That doesnt negate grace which is not cheap. It costs the dear Saviour's life!
If grace is not free, then it's not grace anymore but wages of works! Then we earn our way into heaven! Free = no price but not = cheap!
Isn't this his analogy? Our stability is cheap, but it comes at a price.
Duh. -
The ten commandments have never been abolished! What is the use of us claiming God's grace but not making use of it to keep his laws?
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You use it as a mirror... not as a tool.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:The ten commandments have never been abolished! What is the use of us claiming God's grace but not making use of it to keep his laws? -
what? so now you believe in God's grace?Originally posted by casino_king:You use it as a mirror... not as a tool. -
hmm .. very philosophical.Originally posted by casino_king:You use it as a mirror... not as a tool.
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That's why they kena left, right & center!Originally posted by Icemoon:all right .. now no more Temple liao .. how they atone for their sins then? 
They will build another temple one day & then they will start offering sacrifices. But the Antichrist will betray them halfway & then they will turn to Christ Jesus as the ultimate sacrifice! Praise God! Hallelujah! It will be life from the dead! Amen & amen! Hallelujah!
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Dont know lah. Maybe ask Ps Prince to explain here.Originally posted by Icemoon:Yah lor, so it depends on perspective right? To the follower it will no doubt be cheap (compared with other religions). But to God it is costly.
Isn't this his analogy? Our stability is cheap, but it comes at a price.
Duh. -
We all know in our hearts whether we are born again. We must be born again. We cannot take grace for granted. Neither can we work our way to heaven.
Jesus said unless we are born again we cannot enter heaven. So whether "middle zone" or "right" or "left" zone Christian if one is not a Christian to begin with, one is surely doomed to hell.
God bless. -
Logic my friend... I study Jesus' sayings... while I admire the man I sometimes dispise his disciples.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:what? so now you believe in God's grace? -
So you are saying that what Jesus says is entirely logical and true?Originally posted by casino_king:Logic my friend... I study Jesus' sayings... while I admire the man I sometimes dispise his disciples.
Yeah, the apostles were not perfect people. But that's the beauty of it. God is able to make good things out of the bad. -
what Jesus said was entirely logical and true for his time and the religious, social political situation of his time.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:So you are saying that what Jesus says is entirely logical and true?
Yeah, the apostles were not perfect people. But that's the beauty of it. God is able to make good things out of the bad. -
what if we apply what he said to today?Originally posted by casino_king:what Jesus said was entirely logical and true for his time and the religious, social political situation of his time. -
say we take his Beatitudes?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:what if we apply what he said to today? -
that's a good start....Originally posted by casino_king:say we take his Beatitudes?
your application seems to be quite solid.. but i wonder about your theory.. -
Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:that's a good start....
your application seems to be quite solid.. but i wonder about your theory.. -
You have a disadvantage that I don't and that is, you look at what Jesus said as a Christian. I look at what Jesus says and what Buddha says and what the Hindus believe.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:that's a good start....
your application seems to be quite solid.. but i wonder about your theory.. -
no worries, continue your discerning... you will look for what you need eventually..Originally posted by casino_king:You have a disadvantage that I don't and that is, you look at what Jesus said as a Christian. I look at what Jesus says and what Buddha says and what the Hindus believe. -
Pls refer to the other thread which I have already explained.Originally posted by Icemoon:Jesus will be very sad to hear this.
'cos He said all the commandments (from your perspective, laws) can be reduced to two:
1. Love your God.
2. Love your neighbours.
And now you say to even try to follow them is death.
1 & 2 is a result of god's grace thru the believer, it is not a requirement for salvation, but rather than a result of believing in our lord jesus. -
The reson I am debating the Christians AND the Buddhists is to remind them of what their beliefs are. Some have good understanding of what and why they believe. Others seemed to be on very shaky ground.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:no worries, continue your discerning... you will look for what you need eventually.. -
do you have the correct answers?Originally posted by casino_king:The reson I am debating the Christians AND the Buddhists is to remind them of what their beliefs are. Some have good understanding of what and why they believe. Others seemed to be on very shaky ground. -
We should bear in mind that God's laws has been fulfilled once and for all thru Christ. It is not a requirement for salvation contrary to what stated by Brey.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:The ten commandments have never been abolished! What is the use of us claiming God's grace but not making use of it to keep his laws?
Keep god's commands as love for our lord, not becoz we want to earn our way to heaven. -
God's redemption for the Jews are covered by his covenant with them.Originally posted by Icemoon:Got redemption lah. You read the OT more than I do. If no redemption, then all the Jews mati liao, 'cos all would have failed the test.
The Jews also never say law can take away sins. Sins can only be forgiven, what's done is done, nothing can change the fact.
Only repentance with a contrite heart can your sins be forgiven. For this is why John the Baptist said:
"Repent, for the kingdom of God is at hand!"
For Christians, redemption is thru Christ's work on the cross, not by any works or keeping commandments. -
Wei, wei, wei... when did I ever say that keeping the ten commandments are a requirement for salvation??? Don't twist my words. I have never said this.Originally posted by laoda99:We should bear in mind that God's laws has been fulfilled once and for all thru Christ. It is not a requirement for salvation contrary to what stated by Brey.
Keep god's commands as love for our lord, not becoz we want to earn our way to heaven.
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and I am shocked...Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:The ten commandments have never been abolished! What is the use of us claiming God's grace but not making use of it to keep his laws?
I agree with this...