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Hmm .. this is interesting. I find our beliefs aligned in certain ways.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Keeping the commandments is not works when you know that you have salvation through Christ. You keep the commandments because you love God or at least you try to. Yeshua did not say not to keep the commandments, show me a verse in the bible which says that we are not to keep the commandments?
Yeshua himself says that if we want to enter into life, keep the commandments. Even when Yeshua was speaking to the pharisees, He said that they should have kept both the lesser and weightier matters of the law.
It is even mentioned in revelation that the we keep the commandments and have the testimony of Yeshua.
But being led by the Holy Spirit, we can reply that in our human strength, we cannot keep the ten commandments, but to the degree by which one would yield to the Gods Holy Spirit, one can and will keep the ten commandments. Christ within us helps us not to kill, steal, lie, commit adultery, covet, dishonor our parents, break God’s Sabbath, practice idolatry, take God’s name in vain or have another ‘god’ before the true God. We may slip in some point occasionally, but we will then repent and confess our sin to God and have His forgiveness (1 John 1:8–9). Then we quickly get back on God’s path and, through His Spirit, grow in grace and knowledge. We are not perfect. But, through Christ living His life within us, we are growing toward perfection and walking in God’s law as our basic way of life."
Near the end of the Apostolic Age, God inspired the Apostle John to describe the true saints of God: "Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14).
It is interesting you can treat the commandments as God's way of proving mankind inability to keep the law, and yet at the same time, admit that Christians should keep them.
How do you reconcile that?
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I have not reverted back to law over grace....Originally posted by laoda99:1.Ur view is contradicting urself, by sticking to the law is like making christ's work on the cross in vain, as u are being made righteous by your own merits.
2.God knows that man can only face death under the law that we need christ's righteousness to absolve us from our sins.
3.I think u forget, that as christians, we do not need the law for our salvation/eternal life. Our justification is once and complete thru Christ's work on the cross. No commandments u keep can give u eternal life.
4. You are treading on dangerous grounds by reverting back to law over grace. I will pray for u.
I have salvation through grace, and it is though the death of Yeshua that I have eternal life, yet, it still does not say that we do not have to keep Gods commandments, if you read my posts, I have always said that through Yeshua, we have the ability to keep the commandments, and if we fall, it is Yeshua's grace that allows us to get up and go on because we have grace.
Yes, our justification is through Yeshua's work, but we still have to try to keep the commandments. Even after all the biblical verse that I have shown you, you still cannot see it? Did Yeshua say that we are not to keep the fathers commandments? No. Infact, He asked us to.
John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My FatherÂ’s commandments and abide in His love.
John 14:21
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”
John 14:15
[ Jesus Promises Another Helper ] “If you love Me, keep My commandments.
Matthew 19:17
So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
1 John 2:3
[ The Test of Knowing Him ] Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 John 2:4
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.
1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.
Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
All these verses show that we are to keep the commandments of God. How do you then explain away all of this? I say keep the commandments of God not as a way of salvation, we already have that, but we keep the commandments of God because of our salvation because we LOVE GOD.
We have grace unto salvation, but not grace to absolve us from keeping Gods commands.
I think you forget that as Christians we are God's children, and we are to keep God's ways. I will pray for you to understand this. -
There is nothing to reconcile, Yeshua has done that for us, for His perfection and His saving work on the cross has in His life kept the commandments for us and has shown us how we can keep the commandments. And because we have the grace of God, we can keep the commandments and if we fall, then grace and mercy are already there so that we are under no condemnation but we have the righteousness of Yeshua. We just get right back up and continue on with Yeshua/God because in Him we have no condemnation.Originally posted by Icemoon:Hmm .. this is interesting. I find our beliefs aligned in certain ways.
It is interesting you can treat the commandments as God's way of proving mankind inability to keep the law, and yet at the same time, admit that Christians should keep them.
How do you reconcile that? -
i am shocked..Originally posted by breytonhartge:There is nothing to reconcile, Yeshua has done that for us, for His perfection and His saving work on the cross has in His life kept the commandments for us and has shown us how we can keep the commandments. And because we have the grace of God, we can keep the commandments and if we fall, then grace and mercy are already there so that we are under no condemnation but we have the righteousness of Yeshua. We just get right back up and continue on with Yeshua/God because in Him we have no condemnation.
i somewhat agree with you on this.. -
Originally posted by breytonhartge:
The part in bold is definitely questionable as christians do not have keep the law to have eternal life or salvation. If christians have to earn their salvation by keeping the law, then Christ's work on the cross is totally unneccessary as keeping commandments will do. The true fact is: We are only made righteous by Christ, not by what we do.
I am not half here and half there.
[b]You also forget, if any man can keep the commandments, he will have eternal life. The two commandments you say you are aware of, love the Lord thy God and love thy neighbour as thyself, sum up all the TEN.
[/b]
I maintain that as Christians we should not forget that Salvation is only through faith by grace, not by following the law or by doing good works.
Keeping commandments and doing good works is a result of god's grace presented thru the believer, but it is not a requirement for salvation.
Brey - even your church believe in salvation by faith thru grace, not by the law. Your stand is definitely not aligned to what Christians believe. As a Christian bro, it is my duty to remind u of this.
As what I received from my Adult Christian Education class today, most of us are recovering addicts/pharisees who try to please god by our works and in so doing, forget what Christ really did on the cross and why.
I rest my case. -
It's only AT TIMES. Brey is high handed.Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:i am shocked..
i somewhat agree with you on this.. -
I agree but be careful dont become legalistic.Originally posted by breytonhartge:I have not reverted back to law over grace....
I have salvation through grace, and it is though the death of Yeshua that I have eternal life, yet, it still does not say that we do not have to keep Gods commandments, if you read my posts, I have always said that through Yeshua, we have the ability to keep the commandments, and if we fall, it is Yeshua's grace that allows us to get up and go on because we have grace.
Yes, our justification is through Yeshua's work, but we still have to try to keep the commandments. Even after all the biblical verse that I have shown you, you still cannot see it? Did Yeshua say that we are not to keep the fathers commandments? No. Infact, He asked us to.
John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My FatherÂ’s commandments and abide in His love.
John 14:21
He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.”
John 14:15
[ Jesus Promises Another Helper ] “If you love Me, keep My commandments.
Matthew 19:17
So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
1 John 2:3
[ The Test of Knowing Him ] Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.
1 John 2:4
He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
1 John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.
1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.
1 Corinthians 7:19
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.
Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
All these verses show that we are to keep the commandments of God. How do you then explain away all of this? I say keep the commandments of God not as a way of salvation, we already have that, but we keep the commandments of God because of our salvation because we LOVE GOD.
We have grace unto salvation, but not grace to absolve us from keeping Gods commands.
I think you forget that as Christians we are God's children, and we are to keep God's ways. I will pray for you to understand this. -
I agree.Originally posted by breytonhartge:There is nothing to reconcile, Yeshua has done that for us, for His perfection and His saving work on the cross has in His life kept the commandments for us and has shown us how we can keep the commandments. And because we have the grace of God, we can keep the commandments and if we fall, then grace and mercy are already there so that we are under no condemnation but we have the righteousness of Yeshua. We just get right back up and continue on with Yeshua/God because in Him we have no condemnation. -
hey!!!Originally posted by M©+square:It's only AT TIMES. Brey is high handed. -
Originally posted by laoda99:
I don't belong to a church per se.
The part in bold is definitely questionable as [b]christians do not have keep the law to have eternal life or salvation. If christians have to earn their salvation by keeping the law, then Christ's work on the cross is totally unneccessary as keeping commandments will do. The true fact is: We are only made righteous by Christ, not by what we do.
I maintain that as Christians we should not forget that Salvation is only through faith by grace, not by following the law or by doing good works.
Keeping commandments and doing good works is a result of god's grace presented thru the believer, but it is not a requirement for salvation.
Brey - even your church believe in salvation by faith thru grace, not by the law. Your stand is definitely not aligned to what Christians believe. As a Christian bro, it is my duty to remind u of this.
As what I received from my Adult Christian Education class today, most of us are recovering addicts/pharisees who try to please god by our works and in so doing, forget what Christ really did on the cross and why.
I rest my case.
[/b]
Did I ever once argue that keeping the commandments are a requirement for salvation? No. But I have always said that we are still to keep the commandments as a result of God's grace.
I have never said that good works save, in fact in some of my earlier posts, I have said salvation is through grace by Yeshua's work on the cross.
So what case have you got? -
I tot i'm grumpy enough these days....you're worse!!!Originally posted by breytonhartge:hey!!!
Joy joy joy...Highly Favoured, Deeply Loved and ...........
Yea you know what i mean.
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I won't but thanks for the reminder.Originally posted by Repented John 2:I agree but be careful dont become legalistic. -
As long as you feel better... there thereOriginally posted by M©+square:I tot i'm grumpy enough these days....you're worse!!!
Joy joy joy...Highly Favoured, Deeply Loved and ...........
Yea you know what i mean. .
Why are you grumpy?
I am not grumpy...
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Whoa!!! wat have i missed??? couple of days in seclusion come back a whole load of hoo ha's...
Chill it guys......