Our moderator
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Why is Brey always so quarrelsome and condemning other denominations?
I don't see sillyme doing that.
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because, in the first place, sillyme seldom participate in the discussions.Originally posted by Honeybunz:Why is Brey always so quarrelsome and condemning other denominations?
I don't see sillyme doing that. 
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Sigh, to be fair, the condemnation of denominations already started way last time by other peeps
Say liao nobody care, then some idiots keep preaching unity in diversity while their actions say otherwise
I rem the first condemnation last time was against RC
Was thatwhy Frustmom set up RC forum, honeybunz? -
It was JWorld.Originally posted by laurence82:Sigh, to be fair, the condemnation of denominations already started way last time by other peeps
Say liao nobody care, then some idiots keep preaching unity in diversity while their actions say otherwise
I rem the first condemnation last time was against RC
Was thatwhy Frustmom set up RC forum, honeybunz? -
the RC forum is for people to ask questions about the Catholic Church so as to clear doubts and misunderstanding.
But some people dare not go there. They will criticise rather than ask question. They will do it here rather than there, cuz here they can bully the Catholics. I shall not name names lah. But we all know who the person is. -
Even when he takes part, he doesn't call other denomination heretics.Originally posted by Icemoon:because, in the first place, sillyme seldom participate in the discussions.
I definitely prefer sillyme. Remember that time when there was this hoo har about sillyme deleting somebody's thread. He didn't sound defensive or quarrelsome. Instead, he has so far prevented this from happening again.
But then, Brey leh? Has he been shown any remorse talking about Christ in an unChristlike way?
Even Catholics these days don't use that word against the Prots and Fundies.
A bit of history: in the past from 1500s - 1960s, Catholics used to call Prots and Fundies heretics. Brey should do a bit of history research on this and not blindly restrict his knowledge to bible alone, so that the next time he calls anybody heretic, he will know he's pointing at himself. At the same time the Prots were calling the Catholics popists for the fact that all the church was headed by the Pope. The word Popist was meant to insult the Catholics, but of course the Catholics didn't feel it that way.
But today these namecalling things don't happen not anymore mah, except in this forum with Brey.
I don't deny understanding the bible story more deeper with Brey around. cuz he does remind me of the High Priest and Pharisees.
high priests + pharisees got power- Brey is the mod here
high priests + pharisees condemn sinners- Brey thinks he has the right to call other heretics
high priests + pharisees blindly follow the jewish tradition and teaching while- Brey misuses the word of the Lord in the bible.... to a point that he even preaches that it is wrong to celebrate Easter and Christmas. But that was in the other thread. So let's bygone
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Actually, honeybunz, do you even bother to check up and read about things like easter and christmas?
I have already been on yourside of the fence, I came out of the RC chuch because I believe that they do teach heresies. I have gone through the catechism and all of that, at least I can point to knowing what I am talking about. Can you?
What I am saying is that the traditional mainstream christians call charismatics heretics, yet there are heresies being taught in all the churches which are not in line with the bible. Take for example the simple truth about keeping the sabbath. Do some research and find out. What is God's idea of keeping the sabbath? We are supposedly christians, so what does that mean? We are followers of Jesus, so to follow Jesus is to be like Him, to imitate Him, to do things the way Jesus would have done it. You read through the bible and understand Jesus, His life, His background, His culture.
To that then, I like MC's definition, I am a believer. Being a christian has too much of a religious connotation and one that I am currently uncomfortable with as I have always maintained, that being a christian is not about church etc... it is about having a personal realtionship with God/Jesus/Holy Spirit.
Christmas and easter... well like I said, it is up to you. I have a conviction about it, I have posted my two cents worth. You are an adult, so take it anyway you like.
The way I see it, I have two hats here, one as a mod and one as myself, the fact that I am a mod does not mean that I have no opinion on things. I know CE will disagree, but then that is his view. I see it differently. -
Heresy is but the uncorroborated point of view from a layperson.
But that's all I shall say, because I'm more of a unitarian Methodist who also believes in healthy skepticism when it comes to actions of Man in relation to God.Christianity is a balance between your personal relationship with God, and rituals that bond the community together.
That's my two cents. -
And what power do I have here? It has already been shown that it is an ineffective one.Originally posted by Honeybunz:high priests + pharisees got power- Brey is the mod here
high priests + pharisees condemn sinners- Brey thinks he has the right to call other heretics
high priests + pharisees blindly follow the jewish tradition and teaching while- Brey misuses the word of the Lord in the bible.... to a point that he even preaches that it is wrong to celebrate Easter and Christmas. But that was in the other thread. So let's bygone
And what rights do the others here have to call charismatics heretics?
And how pray tell have I misused the word of the Lord in the bible? It is wrong to celebrate easter and christmas, you go do your own research and then you come and talk to me again. Unless you just blindly follow human tradition? So then I challenge you, use the word of the Lord to show me that God would have wanted us to celebrate easter and christmas? I have shown you otherwise, now you show me. -
For your kind information, I was a Protestant. I almost got confirmed there and I even took part in street witnessing. I spent 10 long years there attending bible study, youth group meeting and choir.Originally posted by breytonhartge:And what power do I have here? It has already been shown that it is an ineffective one.
And what rights do the others here have to call charismatics heretics?
And how pray tell have I misused the word of the Lord in the bible? It is wrong to celebrate easter and christmas, you go do your own research and then you come and talk to me again. Unless you just blindly follow human tradition? So then I challenge you, use the word of the Lord to show me that God would have wanted us to celebrate easter and christmas? I have shown you otherwise, now you show me.
I will not go into details why I converted back to Catholic (Note: without any Catholic friend pulling me over or what), although I have never intended to point my finger at any non Catholics and start calling them heretics.
You are still into the originality of Easter and Christmas? Are pagan gods that important to you than Jesus? Well, like what I mentioned earlier, on Easter Sunday, I only remember Jesus. Same for Christmas. I am not sure where in the bible, Jesus told us to remember pagan festivals. I also said that I am not as interested to know the pagan religions as much as you do.
Do you get married in Church? then tell me when did Jesus say we have to do that. Or are you going to say that it is wrong to get married in Church because it has pagan root?
As a regular forumer, yes, you are subject to your own opinions. But as a moderator, you have to observe tact and maturity. -
First of all, nobody calls charismatics heretics....but the practices such as health/wealth by holy commuion....is extra-biblical and in a sense heretical. Seek Christ first and he will do the rest, and not rely on rituals such as holy communion to heal u.Originally posted by breytonhartge:And what power do I have here? It has already been shown that it is an ineffective one.
And what rights do the others here have to call charismatics heretics?
And how pray tell have I misused the word of the Lord in the bible? It is wrong to celebrate easter and christmas, you go do your own research and then you come and talk to me again. Unless you just blindly follow human tradition? So then I challenge you, use the word of the Lord to show me that God would have wanted us to celebrate easter and christmas? I have shown you otherwise, now you show me.
We alert people of the practices, not condemn the people in the church.
And brey.....hope u understand justification is thru grace by faith, and not the law. That's what makes god's love so free, not the law. -
Same thing, you call them heretical on the issues of health and wealth, i say that the churches are heretical for celebrating christmas, just alerting people of the right practices.Originally posted by laoda99:First of all, nobody calls charismatics heretics....but the practices such as health/wealth by holy commuion....is extra-biblical and in a sense heretical. Seek Christ first and he will do the rest, and not rely on rituals such as holy communion to heal u.
We alert people of the practices, not condemn the people in the church.
And brey.....hope u understand justification is thru grace by faith, and not the law. That's what makes god's love so free, not the law.
laoda, since when have I ever said that justification is by law? I have always said that salvation is through Jesus by the grace of GOD. -
Thanks for the feedback.Originally posted by Honeybunz:I am not sure where in the bible, Jesus told us to remember pagan festivals. I also said that I am not as interested to know the pagan religions as much as you do.
But now I ask you show me from the bible that God wants us to celebrate christmas and easter as the christian festivals that you claim they are? you still have not done that.
Then you are not interested in the spiritual roots of things and in knowing what God is about, you just want to follow tradition, man made tradition. -
u are making me worried....on the other hand u keep emphasizing abt commandments after one another...and now u say salvation is thru Jesus by the grace of godOriginally posted by breytonhartge:Same thing, you call them heretical on the issues of health and wealth, i say that the churches are heretical for celebrating christmas, just alerting people of the right practices.
laoda, since when have I ever said that justification is by law? I have always said that salvation is through Jesus by the grace of GOD.
u cannot be half here and half there...make up ur mind bro....it is christ alone who saves us....not by earning god's flavours by observing the law. -
I am not half here and half there.Originally posted by laoda99:u are making me worried....on the other hand u keep emphasizing abt commandments after one another...and now u say salvation is thru Jesus by the grace of god
u cannot be half here and half there...make up ur mind bro....it is christ alone who saves us....not by earning god's flavours by observing the law.
our salvation is by grace through Yeshua. Yet even though we are saved, we are not absolved from keeping or trying to keep the commandments.
You miss the distinction here, even in the bible, Yeshua kept all the commandments. And He even said that He came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. In His conversation with the rich young man, when asked what he had to do to have eternal life, Yeshua replied, keep the commandments, and Yeshua replied thou shall not steal etc...
The most important feast to keep is the sabbath. A day to be kept holy unto the Lord. Read Leviticus 23. It spells it out very clearly. Being a christian does not only mean what is in the NT that applies, it is the whole of the bible that applies to us. We are becoming God's children, and who God is about spans from the OT to the NT. Not just the NT. We cannot just take the parts we like and leave out the parts that are not convenient or do not suit us. We either take our walk with God all the way or we are nowhere with God.
We are the wild branches grafted into the true vine, but yet if we do not accept what the true vine is about, how can we remain grafted? Even in the real world, when plants are grafted, they take on the characteristics of the host plant. Our host is the Lord Yeshua so how come we are not like Him? Yeshua kept the sabbath, Yeshua also kept the commandments, so why are we absolved?
You also forget, if any man can keep the commandments, he will have eternal life. The two commandments you say you are aware of, love the Lord thy God and love thy neighbour as thyself, sum up all the TEN. -
Breyton:
Isn't keeping the commandments a form of 'works'?
And you still haven't answered my question in the "Anglicans!" thread.
Why are you pitting Religion against Relationship? -
Have I not? What did I miss?Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:Breyton:
Isn't keeping the commandments a form of 'works'?
And you still haven't answered my question in the "Anglicans!" thread.
Why are you pitting Religion against Relationship?
Keeping the commandments is not works when you know that you have salvation through Christ. You keep the commandments because you love God or at least you try to. Yeshua did not say not to keep the commandments, show me a verse in the bible which says that we are not to keep the commandments?
Yeshua himself says that if we want to enter into life, keep the commandments. Even when Yeshua was speaking to the pharisees, He said that they should have kept both the lesser and weightier matters of the law.
It is even mentioned in revelation that the we keep the commandments and have the testimony of Yeshua.
But being led by the Holy Spirit, we can reply that in our human strength, we cannot keep the ten commandments, but to the degree by which one would yield to the Gods Holy Spirit, one can and will keep the ten commandments. Christ within us helps us not to kill, steal, lie, commit adultery, covet, dishonor our parents, break God’s Sabbath, practice idolatry, take God’s name in vain or have another ‘god’ before the true God. We may slip in some point occasionally, but we will then repent and confess our sin to God and have His forgiveness (1 John 1:8–9). Then we quickly get back on God’s path and, through His Spirit, grow in grace and knowledge. We are not perfect. But, through Christ living His life within us, we are growing toward perfection and walking in God’s law as our basic way of life."
Near the end of the Apostolic Age, God inspired the Apostle John to describe the true saints of God: "Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14).
I have never pit religion vs relationship, I have always spoken about relationship, but you have brought in religion which is a man made thing. If you have relationship with Yeshua/God/Holy Spirit, you will begin to understand who and what God is about. You will understand God's WORD because God Himself will reveal things to you. Don't just go to church and listen to mass, read the bible and ask God for yourself. -
I have not done so cuz I do not overly emphasise everything on bible.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Thanks for the feedback.
But now I ask you show me from the bible that God wants us to celebrate christmas and easter as the christian festivals that you claim they are? you still have not done that.
Then you are not interested in the spiritual roots of things and in knowing what God is about, you just want to follow tradition, man made tradition.
Now my turn to ask you.... show me from the bible that God does not want us to commemorate Jesus arrival and His risen.
The bible also didn't mention the word internet. and why are you surfing sgforums now?
Whatever the bible says, we do. Whatever the bible doesn't say, is wrong to do. How right can this be?
Like what I say.... Easter and Christmas only are only meant to Jesus as far as all Catholics and Protestants are concerned. I am not sure why it occurs to you as days to remember pagan gods. I certainly agree with you that it is important to focus on Jesus. So please show us that you are doing it.
You have not also answered my question about getting married in church. I certainly know that this practise was never mentioned in the bible. So is it pagan too? Millions of Christian couples get married in church. Like that how? They are leaning towards pagan practise too?
Obsession over anything is a heresy.
PS
I was a Protestant for 10 years,
Took part in bible study, youth group and choir,
Was trained by Campus Crusade for Christ to do street witnessing,
Did street witnessing with the group. -
You still have not answered my question. Yet you pose a challenge with another one???Originally posted by Honeybunz:I have not done so cuz I do not overly emphasise everything on bible.
Now my turn to ask you.... show me from the bible that God does not want us to commemorate Jesus arrival and His risen.
The bible also didn't mention the word internet. and why are you surfing sgforums now?
Whatever the bible says, we do. Whatever the bible doesn't say, is wrong to do. How right can this be?
Like what I say.... Easter and Christmas only are only meant to Jesus as far as all Catholics and Protestants are concerned. I am not sure why it occurs to you as days to remember pagan gods. I certainly agree with you that it is important to focus on Jesus. So please show us that you are doing it.
You have not also answered my question about getting married in church. I certainly know that this practise was never mentioned in the bible. So is it pagan too? Millions of Christian couples get married in church. Like that how? They are leaning towards pagan practise too?
Obsession over anything is a heresy.
PS
I was a Protestant for 10 years,
Took part in bible study, youth group and choir,
Was trained by Campus Crusade for Christ to do street witnessing,
Did street witnessing with the group.
FYI, please read the book of Galatians Chapter 4 verses 8-11. For the answer to your question about easter and christmas.
Yes we are to remeber Yeshua's death, but Yeshua did this during the passover, during the feast of unleavened bread and He said to do this in remembrance of Him, not during easter. So if you want to remember Yeshua's ressurection, please do at the appropriate festival, not just plonk any old pagan festival and call it christian.
It is never stated in the bible anywhere that we are to celebrate the birth of Jesus, and it has never been tradition to do so. But then if you want to celebrate Yeshua's arrival, why then are you doing it some 2-3 months after when He was born??? tell me would you like me to celebrate your birthday 2-3 months after you were born? how would you feel, many would say it is past and over already, what is the point? some may even be insulted that you forgot, but the worse thing is that if you purposely celebrated it on the wrong day, what an insult!
Actually I did not get married in church at all. So nothing pagan to celebrate about, I just got registered. So there.
so 10 years as a protestant, etc.. what does that prove to me? That you know your bible facts well? you yourself have stated in this thread that you do not emphasize the bible too much, then what do you emphasize? Human tradition? So what 10 years as a protestant... so what if you street evangilised, most of us have done that. Nothing new. It is not a badge of honour, it is all part of our service to Yeshua. You can confidently say that the RC church has all the answers and that they do not teach heresy? They are the ones that are responsible for the heresy in the first place. -
So it is possible and necessary to keep the commandments through God's help?Originally posted by breytonhartge:Have I not? What did I miss?
Keeping the commandments is not works when you know that you have salvation through Christ. You keep the commandments because you love God or at least you try to. Yeshua did not say not to keep the commandments, show me a verse in the bible which says that we are not to keep the commandments?
Yeshua himself says that if we want to enter into life, keep the commandments. Even when Yeshua was speaking to the pharisees, He said that they should have kept both the lesser and weightier matters of the law.
It is even mentioned in revelation that the we keep the commandments and have the testimony of Yeshua.
But being led by the Holy Spirit, we can reply that in our human strength, we cannot keep the ten commandments, but to the degree by which one would yield to the Gods Holy Spirit, one can and will keep the ten commandments. Christ within us helps us not to kill, steal, lie, commit adultery, covet, dishonor our parents, break God’s Sabbath, practice idolatry, take God’s name in vain or have another ‘god’ before the true God. We may slip in some point occasionally, but we will then repent and confess our sin to God and have His forgiveness (1 John 1:8–9). Then we quickly get back on God’s path and, through His Spirit, grow in grace and knowledge. We are not perfect. But, through Christ living His life within us, we are growing toward perfection and walking in God’s law as our basic way of life."
Near the end of the Apostolic Age, God inspired the Apostle John to describe the true saints of God: "Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city" (Revelation 22:14).
I have never pit religion vs relationship, I have always spoken about relationship, but you have brought in religion which is a man made thing. If you have relationship with Yeshua/God/Holy Spirit, you will begin to understand who and what God is about. You will understand God's WORD because God Himself will reveal things to you. Don't just go to church and listen to mass, read the bible and ask God for yourself.
Is going to church, reading the bible, not a form of religion? perhaps you see 'religion' as a man-made thing. So let us refer to the dictionary.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=religion
1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe.
2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship.
Substitute 'supernatural power or powers' with God, how can that be bad?
No, God had chosen to reveal Himself to the Church and it is more than enough for me. I cannot simply read the Scriptures and teach others whatever I like. Did God give you authority to teach as you liike? -
And regarding the paganism information you have posted...
Take a look at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichthys
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross
The Cross itself was originally a pagan symbol! Why are we still using it then? -
1.Ur view is contradicting urself, by sticking to the law is like making christ's work on the cross in vain, as u are being made righteous by your own merits.
2.God knows that man can only face death under the law that we need christ's righteousness to absolve us from our sins.
3.I think u forget, that as christians, we do not need the law for our salvation/eternal life. Our justification is once and complete thru Christ's work on the cross. No commandments u keep can give u eternal life.
4. You are treading on dangerous grounds by reverting back to law over grace. I will pray for u.Originally posted by breytonhartge:I am not half here and half there.
our salvation is by grace through Yeshua. Yet even though we are saved, we are not absolved from keeping or trying to keep the commandments.
You miss the distinction here, even in the bible, Yeshua kept all the commandments. And He even said that He came not to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. In His conversation with the rich young man, when asked what he had to do to have eternal life, Yeshua replied, keep the commandments, and Yeshua replied thou shall not steal etc...
You also forget, if any man can keep the commandments, he will have eternal life. The two commandments you say you are aware of, love the Lord thy God and love thy neighbour as thyself, sum up all the TEN. -
Brey is running a one man show now.
He has practically no allies on his side (except maybe Repented John 2?)
The Catholics are not on his side.
Neither are some of the Protestants (like CE, Laoda); the rest are neutral.
Of course CK is never on his side.
And I don't think the yellow leftie is on his side either.
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so why aren't you pinpointing the Eastern Churches? Is it because they are doing the right thing, that is, keeping the Lord's festivals?Originally posted by breytonhartge:Pesach is correct, it seems that the Eastern churches have kept more true to the word and celebration of the feasts of the Lord than the west. How do you relate the two words pesach and easter? they have totally different meanings so how can you say one is like the other? If pesach is the name of this feast in latin, the official language of teh roman rite, why then do we have the word easter to celebrate the ressurection of Christ?????
How does pesach which means passover be made equal to easter, which means sunrise? Now who is confused.
It is noted that soccrates attributes the celebration of easter due to a perpetuation of local custom and not something that Jesus or his disciples enjoined in keeping.
We need to realise also that there is no equivalent word for "Easter" in the Greek language, for one simple but important reason, the word is an Anglo-Saxon word for a pagan festival. The word in its original use is entirely pagan. According to the English Church historian Bede, it derives from a pagan spring festival in honour of Eastra or Ostara a Teutonic goddess. It has no associations whatsoever with Christ, His death and Resurrection, or indeed anything Christian. Is it not, therefore, unsuitable to be used to describe the greatest day in the life of the Church? The French, Italians and Spanish do not make the same mistake. Their words come from the proper source - Passover, which in Greek is the word "Pascha".
Bede's Historia ecclesiastica gentis Anglorum ("Ecclesiastic History of the English People") contains a letter from Pope Gregory I to Saint Mellitus, who was then on his way to England to conduct missionary work among the heathen Anglo-Saxons. The Pope suggests that converting heathens is easier if they are allowed to retain the outward forms of their traditional pagan practices and traditions, while recasting those traditions spiritually towards Christianity instead of to their indigenous gods (whom the Pope refers to as "devils"), "to the end that, whilst some gratifications are outwardly permitted them, they may the more easily consent to the inward consolations of the grace of God". The Pope sanctioned such conversion tactics as biblically acceptable, pointing out that God did much the same thing with the ancient Israelites and their pagan sacrifices. This practice might explain the incorporation of Eostre traditions into the Christian holiday.
So who is responsible for defiling the passover? The RC church!!!
And if they 'keep the Lord's festivals', why aren't you Orthodox?
We Catholics celebrate Pascha; we merely call it Easter. Simple as that. -
haha, yellow leftie is never on either of our side.Originally posted by Icemoon:Brey is running a one man show now.
He has practically no allies on his side (except maybe Repented John 2?)
The Catholics are not on his side.
Neither are some of the Protestants (like CE, Laoda); the rest are neutral.
Of course CK is never on his side.
And I don't think the yellow leftie is on his side either. 