the true 'christians'
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because there wasn't any health and prosperity message last time, I guess.Originally posted by breytonhartge:And err.. how do you know that there was not?
'cos if there was, it would become part of tradition to preach that.
and of course, the part about early Christianity is about suffering doesn't lend credibility to the message. -
No, you are not. You're lending credibility to them, because all the more they can say "See, we have the Apostolic Tradition".Originally posted by breytonhartge:I am including the RC's in this too. they most of all.
and of course, they're under one *united* fellowship. -
thanks for the extra reply to increase rating.Originally posted by breytonhartge:and please do not take the name of God in vain.
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THEN LET ME MAKE IT CLEAR, I BELIEVE THAT THE RC CHURCH TEACHES THE MOST HERESIES AND THEIR TEACHINGS ARE THE MOST INCONSISTENT WITH THE BIBLE. There happy now.Originally posted by Icemoon:No, you are not. You're lending credibility to them, because all the more they can say "See, we have the Apostolic Tradition".
and of course, they're under one *united* fellowship. -
Originally posted by breytonhartge:THEN LET ME MAKE IT CLEAR, I BELIEVE THAT THE RC CHURCH TEACHES THE MOST HERESIES AND THEIR TEACHINGS ARE THE MOST INCONSISTENT WITH THE BIBLE. There happy now.
There is a price to pay for using this to increase rating ..
Its not all about ratings, only you care about it. -
Thank u for agreeing that charismatic churches are teaching the wrong things. May I know what are the wrong things taught by mainstream churches? As far as I know, Presbyterian church (and the anglican background i have from my sec sch) do not teach anything extra bliblical, only charismatic churches do. Things range from handphones being able to recharged on its own by speaking in tongues and unborn babies floating in the air from a blessing ritualOriginally posted by breytonhartge:1. If the bible is our basis, then why are there so many mainstream churches teaching the wrong thing, not just charismatic churches?
2. Health, and wealth are talked about in the bible. Not linked to communion, but they are talked about.
are just part of the heresies which I have heard from charismatic church.
The communion thing is related to health. Health is promised thru holy communion as stated by the said charismatic church, which is extra biblical and in a sense heretical.
I am a hep c patient and I believe in god's healing, but not thru holy communion, as I have been there, done that.
And further more, one can quote prosperity and health messages out of context from the bible, and most importantly believers should know that these can only happen according to the will of our god, not according to the will of the pastor or the person asking for health/wealth.
God Bless. -
Actually, I did not agree with you that Charismatic churches are teaching the wrong thing. They also teach things which are valid to our spiritual growth. I never did agree. I said, all churches are teaching the wrong thing. Acutally, there is nothing wrong with what the Charismatic church teaches, neither are the teachings of the mainstream churches wrong. Each has a different revelation. But the point i am making is there is wrong teaching in the churches already. In ALL churches, not just the charismatics, if you want to point the finger, just go digging in the RC church, plenty of heresies there already. If you want to know my gripe, then read through the various threads in this forum. I have spoken at length about it.Originally posted by laoda99:Thank u for agreeing that charismatic churches are teaching the wrong things. May I know what are the wrong things taught by mainstream churches? As far as I know, Presbyterian churches (and the anglican background i have from my sec sch) do not teach anything extra bliblical, only charismatic churches do.
The communion thing is related to health. Health is promised thru holy communion as stated by the said charismatic church, which is extra biblical and in a sense heretical.
I am a hep c patient and I believe in god's healing, but not thru holy communion, as I have been there, done that.
You mean you believe in God's healing. It does not have to come through holy communion. -
Actually if not according to the will of God, then whose will? But the point is this, God desires to bless all of us as His children. The reason for this is given in deut 28, so that all the peoples of the earth shall see that we are called by the name of our God.Originally posted by laoda99:And further more, one can quote prosperity and health messages out of context from the bible, and most importantly believers should know that these can only happen according to the will of our god, not according to the will of the pastor or the person asking for health/wealth.
God Bless.
If you want to stay poor, be my guest. Though I would not wish it upon you. I believe as a child of God, I am prosperous in every area of my life, not just in my wealth. But God's blessings do cover that part as I have already stated.
The conditions to our prosperity are simple, the consequences for not obeying God's ways are also simple just continue reading past deut 28. It goes on for about 3 chapters of curses. -
apologies, meant to quote and post, but pressed the wrong button!...Originally posted by Icemoon:
There is a price to pay for using this to increase rating ..
Its not all about ratings, only you care about it.
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That's why i always said it's like a motivational seminar. Like Anthony Robbins or Jim Rohn just did a talk to a group of trainees. They feel great inside but when outside they feel lost.Originally posted by laoda99:For me, test the spirit means refering back to the bible.
If the bible do not say anything or say anything explicitly abt the issue, it should be taken with caution. I will not simply take any pastor's " god tell me to tell u this" message easily. This is dangerous as pple in big charismatic churches seem to take the word of their senior pastor as absolute, esp when the pastor says it is from god.
No pastor, whether Anglican, Presbyterian or any mainstream church, has told me "god tells me to tell you this". And this should be taken with extreme caution. IMHO, pastors with sound theological background do not say "god tells me to tell u this" readily. This shows that theological education for pastors is necessary and not just a conviction by what one believe is the holy spirit.
And I would like to reiterate the fact that pastors of megachurches, have a greater responsibilty to check what they want to preach to their flock, becoz what they said will influence a lot of people at one time. There is no use apologising for mistakes later becoz the harm is already done.
And again to the "MacChrist" strategy of attracting believers, it will only not keep believers in church. I have personally experienced that and the "good" feeling followed by a sermon which utter sweet words do not stay with me for long (probably only a little while after i have my dinner and shop happily around carrefour, but i still feel empty after that). -
I agree with BH for this. Woohoo! I support u BH! Preach it man!Originally posted by breytonhartge:THEN LET ME MAKE IT CLEAR, I BELIEVE THAT THE RC CHURCH TEACHES THE MOST HERESIES AND THEIR TEACHINGS ARE THE MOST INCONSISTENT WITH THE BIBLE. There happy now.
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both of you even more hiong than NT2.Originally posted by Repented John 2:I agree with BH for this. Woohoo! I support u BH! Preach it man! 
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Truth is truth. Nothing to preach about or get excited about. I just tell it like it is.Originally posted by Icemoon:both of you even more hiong than NT2. -
This is not about "truths." It is about beliefs. I wonder why you people cannot make the distinction. To the cults, their teaching is the truth... to Pastor Prince and NCC they have the truth. To the Pope and the Roman Catholics they have the truth; to the Buddhists, they have the truth; to the Mormons and the Jehovah Witnesses, they have the truth....
The REALITY IS: These are just beliefs and baseless.
Believe anything you want, it doesn't matter.... whatever you are comfortable with; just understand that there is a better way and that is to face reality. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:both of you even more hiong than NT2.
Sorry for my "ruthlessness"! -
And to Dan Brown .. he has the truth.Originally posted by casino_king:This is not about "truths." It is about beliefs. I wonder why you people cannot make the distinction. To the cults, their teaching is the truth... to Pastor Prince and NCC they have the truth. To the Pope and the Roman Catholics they have the truth; to the Buddhists, they have the truth; to the Mormons and the Jehovah Witnesses, they have the truth.... -
There's no need to shout, Brey......Originally posted by breytonhartge:THEN LET ME MAKE IT CLEAR, I BELIEVE THAT THE RC CHURCH TEACHES THE MOST HERESIES AND THEIR TEACHINGS ARE THE MOST INCONSISTENT WITH THE BIBLE. There happy now.
To you, the Roman Catholic church is heretic,
To other folks, NCC (and anyone who believes in health and wealth) is heretical.
You say you only quote from the Bible, so can I, brey.
There is not a single church in the world that is in stasis, some evolve to be heretical, others improve along Biblical lines. God's work is not done, so don't go around damning mainstream churches as heretical. That is just so impolite!
I don't get it, brey, you obviously are into the back-to-the-Jewish tradition thing with your retorts, but yet your support with the health and wealth gospel of NCC and the festivities the NCC has (telecast on national TV on Christmas eve with Joe Prince single carols, mind you) is strong. This is so inconsistent. -
Nope, you're telling it as you see it.... It goes back to what I'd said to you: you are sure you are right and the others are wrong.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Truth is truth. Nothing to preach about or get excited about. I just tell it like it is.
If you continue to claim that God is still revealing his plans to all, and different churches receive different revelations, who are you to say who's heretic and who's not? Just because someone or some groups did not agree with your own mindset of your understanding of the Bible? -
Did I ever say that I support Ps prince in full? Once ever? Get your facts right old man.Originally posted by Chin Eng:There's no need to shout, Brey......
To you, the Roman Catholic church is heretic,
To other folks, NCC (and anyone who believes in health and wealth) is heretical.
You say you only quote from the Bible, so can I, brey.
There is not a single church in the world that is in stasis, some evolve to be heretical, others improve along Biblical lines. God's work is not done, so don't go around damning mainstream churches as heretical. That is just so impolite!
I don't get it, brey, you obviously are into the back-to-the-Jewish tradition thing with your retorts, but yet your support with the health and wealth gospel of NCC and the festivities the NCC has (telecast on national TV on Christmas eve with Joe Prince single carols, mind you) is strong. This is so inconsistent. Does not mean that I defended him on one occasion, that I support all that he does. But in that instance, I think that the person attacking him got the facts wrong so I said something.
My calling mainstream churches heretical is no more impolite than the RC churches condemning all the other churches, or the mainstream churches condemning the charismatics and pentacostals... like you said once before, we all have views and we air them.
An on the subject of impolite, you have done that routine on occasion.
So go ahead and quote from the bible, i thought that you don't do that.
BTW, I am not shouting at you. Just a certain person who is always incensed about ratings.
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have you ever been part of the RC church? served in it? done the catechism? if so, then you should know what I speak about when I speak about the RC church.Originally posted by Chin Eng:Nope, you're telling it as you see it.... It goes back to what I'd said to you: you are sure you are right and the others are wrong.
If you continue to claim that God is still revealing his plans to all, and different churches receive different revelations, who are you to say who's heretic and who's not? Just because someone or some groups did not agree with your own mindset of your understanding of the Bible?
If not, then I suggest that you go do some reading up of your own.
Nope, you got it wrong again. Like you yourself have said, all of us have our beliefs, we air them, so you don't like what I say, then you deal with it. The fact that the RC church is heretical is a well known one, and one that has been around for a long time, I have not spoken any different.
Well we have many others here calling the charismatic churches heretical, I don't see you making a song and dance about it? So why pick on me? Now you are being inconsistent. -
And you think only you are not a heretic while the rest of us are?Originally posted by breytonhartge:have you ever been part of the RC church? served in it? done the catechism? if so, then you should know what I speak about when I speak about the RC church.
If not, then I suggest that you go do some reading up of your own.
Nope, you got it wrong again. Like you yourself have said, all of us have our beliefs, we air them, so you don't like what I say, then you deal with it. The fact that the RC church is heretical is a well known one, and one that has been around for a long time, I have not spoken any different.
Well we have many others here calling the charismatic churches heretical, I don't see you making a song and dance about it? So why pick on me? Now you are being inconsistent. -
+1 !!!Originally posted by Chin Eng:I don't get it, brey, you obviously are into the back-to-the-Jewish tradition thing with your retorts, but yet your support with the health and wealth gospel of NCC and the festivities the NCC has (telecast on national TV on Christmas eve with Joe Prince single carols, mind you) is strong. This is so inconsistent. -
So according to your belief, Catholicism is unbiblical, tantamount to idolatry and therefore should be destroyed!Originally posted by breytonhartge:have you ever been part of the RC church? served in it? done the catechism? if so, then you should know what I speak about when I speak about the RC church.
If not, then I suggest that you go do some reading up of your own.
Nope, you got it wrong again. Like you yourself have said, all of us have our beliefs, we air them, so you don't like what I say, then you deal with it. The fact that the RC church is heretical is a well known one, and one that has been around for a long time, I have not spoken any different.
Well we have many others here calling the charismatic churches heretical, I don't see you making a song and dance about it? So why pick on me? Now you are being inconsistent.
Go ahead, prove that the Church teaches salvation through human effort alone! -
Somehow I feel that Brey the moderator is trying to talk like a prophet or God's messagers or something. He always thinks he has the right to judge and condemn sinners to hell.
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I'm concerned about ratings just as mega-church pastors are concerned about membership size.Originally posted by breytonhartge:BTW, I am not shouting at you. Just a certain person who is always incensed about ratings.
Even Repented John 2 agrees that numbers is [almost] everything. Numbers can even elevate a pastor to a prophet.
No wonder FireIce moderates the two highest rating forum in SGF. She can close and ban. The rest of us cannot.
PS: by the way, do come to my humble Forbidden City to help increase the rating.