the true 'christians'
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hello!!! well, juz tot tat i will pose a thread on belief groups who claim to be 'christians'. no i am nt coming against catholicism or any denomination. i am toking abt the groups like mormons and Jehovah Witness...anyone who interested in cult topics...share them here... God Bless!!!
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i wonder if this thread will be closed..
o well. +1
mormons are very distinct.
i can detect those preachers before they say anything.
dunnoe why. -
Ref: http://religion-cults.com/Cults/Christian/C-CULTS.htm
One thing common about these 'cults' is that they either denial the deity of Christ, or reduced him to just another 'god'.
sometimes I wonder, can a person who reject the person/character of Christ, be consider as one who belongs to Chirst (ie. christian)? personally, I don't think so. -
To add on, this question been lurking in my mind for sometime
What are the defining morals and virtues required of Christians?
Is it like what St Thomas Aquinas said, courage, temperance, justice and prudence, and above all, faith, hope and charity?
The intention of the question is pretty simple. Observing this forum for sometime, its disturbing to note a significant number, who proclaim and advocate morality using God as their authority, and try to potray themselves as just, would also engage in acts of cunning, deceits, unjust labels of others, defamations, and even indulge in emotional extremes.
Not only do they embroil themselves in anger and hate, they also perform a certain amount of unjust actions on others, such as false accusations, not dealing with the issues but would rather perform personal attacks etc etc...
Is it right, therefore, to ignore, deny, or refuse to do a soul searching exercise, on all these deeds, use God and the Bible as a shield, and continue doing these acts? Are these deeds considered moral in Christianity? In fact, would it allow so called 'pious' Christians, who want to achieve a place in heaven, but are willing to commit sinful acts in his lifetime. -
Those are timeless.
Is it like what St Thomas Aquinas said, courage, temperance, justice and prudence, and above all, faith, hope and charity? -
Does nihilism got anything to do with annihiliation?Originally posted by LazerLordz:Those are timeless.
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People believe what they like and call themselves what they like... does not make any diff.Originally posted by despondent:hello!!! well, juz tot tat i will pose a thread on belief groups who claim to be 'christians'. no i am nt coming against catholicism or any denomination. i am toking abt the groups like mormons and Jehovah Witness...anyone who interested in cult topics...share them here... God Bless!!!
all of it is just beliefs and make beliefs... no big deal. -
i juz wanna point out tat these cults are growing rapidly n their doctrines are appealing to man...well, in a way, its gd tat all these r happening...it proves the bible rite...tat in the last days, many wil depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits n lying wonders....tat man wil become boasters of themselves...the Word of God rocks!!!
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Yes....tat's why all the new "apostles" and "prophets" of god are all coming out....we need to put on our guardOriginally posted by despondent:i juz wanna point out tat these cults are growing rapidly n their doctrines are appealing to man...well, in a way, its gd tat all these r happening...it proves the bible rite...tat in the last days, many wil depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits n lying wonders....tat man wil become boasters of themselves...the Word of God rocks!!! -
Yes....tat's why all the new "apostles" and "prophets" of god are all coming out....we need to put on our guard
wad u mean by new "apostles" n "prophets"? r u referring to the charismatic movement? my personal stand is tat there r apostles n prophets in modern day but u need to discern btw the true n false ones. bible did hint us tat anyone who come forth n preach a diff doctrine or come n say: i am the christ...these r the false apostles n prophets... -
well .. there are many christians not comfortable with the doctrines of those modern day 'prophets' and 'apostles'.Originally posted by despondent:wad u mean by new "apostles" n "prophets"? r u referring to the charismatic movement? my personal stand is tat there r apostles n prophets in modern day but u need to discern btw the true n false ones. bible did hint us tat anyone who come forth n preach a diff doctrine or come n say: i am the christ...these r the false apostles n prophets...
furthermore anyone skewing the orthodox doctrine of Christianity will be indirectly claiming "I am the Christ", because followers will focus on the wrong entity, e.g. the church instead of Christ. -
double
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Some Charismatic pastors have dangerous views which is to a very large extent heretical. What they say are usually not from the bible and is often what they say: GOD TELLS ME TO TELL U THIS.Originally posted by despondent:wad u mean by new "apostles" n "prophets"? r u referring to the charismatic movement? my personal stand is tat there r apostles n prophets in modern day but u need to discern btw the true n false ones. bible did hint us tat anyone who come forth n preach a diff doctrine or come n say: i am the christ...these r the false apostles n prophets...
One good example is Benny Hinn who believe got will give him a holy machine gun to shoot his enemies
BTW, U can never confirm what kind of spirit is telling them or whether there is any spirit telling them.
Christians are already deceived and preached a diff doctrine and a different Christ: A Christ which gives health and prosperity readily is not the Christ I believe in. -
sadly yes...diff.doctrine...tats y i ask those christians, if u wanna tell me tat charismatism is wrong cos they preach a diff. doctrine, then every denomination can accuse other denomination of being wrong cos they preach diff. doctrine...where wil it end? a charismatic can come n say to a presbyterian: u r of the devil cos u preach a diff. doctrine...n a methodist can say the same to say, a baptist...so its a vicious cycle tat wun end...
tats y i believe tat the term 'diff. doctrine' is very specific...meaning tat it refers to ppl who deny the fundamentals of christianity...or ppl of other religion who have ability to perform miracles...cun be toking abt other denomination or it wil be nvr ending n it wil be clear tat the devil is causing disunity within the body of christ...he is here to kill, steal n destroy... -
that's where you have to learn from the Roman Catholics.Originally posted by despondent:sadly yes...diff.doctrine...tats y i ask those christians, if u wanna tell me tat charismatism is wrong cos they preach a diff. doctrine, then every denomination can accuse other denomination of being wrong cos they preach diff. doctrine...where wil it end? a charismatic can come n say to a presbyterian: u r of the devil cos u preach a diff. doctrine...n a methodist can say the same to say, a baptist...so its a vicious cycle tat wun end...
"I am first so I am right. Where were you in the 1600 years?"
Even Pastor Prince used this tactic, 'cos I wen to his "original Chrisitianity by Paul" bible study before. Protestants try to go even earlier than the Catholics, when the Church wasn't so established yet, i.e. during the times of the apostles. If you notice, the original office for Apostle Peter is the 'Bishop of Rome', the title of Pontifax Maximus came later. -
wow, didnt know that you do mind altering substances. cant really take you seriouslyOriginally posted by despondent:hello!!! well, juz tot tat i will pose a thread on belief groups who claim to be 'christians'. no i am nt coming against catholicism or any denomination. i am toking abt the groups like mormons and Jehovah Witness...anyone who interested in cult topics...share them here... God Bless!!! -
Some Charismatic pastors have dangerous views which is to a very large extent heretical. What they say are usually not from the bible and is often what they say: GOD TELLS ME TO TELL U THIS.
One good example is Benny Hinn who believe got will give him a holy machine gun to shoot his enemies
BTW, U can never confirm what kind of spirit is telling them or whether there is any spirit telling them.
Christians are already deceived and preached a diff doctrine and a different Christ: A Christ which gives health and prosperity readily is not the Christ I believe in.
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i agree with wad u said... but a bt benny hinn, i would like to say tat no human is perfect..i have a bible-presbyterian frend who told me she saw video clips of ppl getting 'healed' by benny hinn yet in the end nt healed...but i told her i have seen ppl genuinely getting healed by benny hinn, so wad can u say?
seems like we have seen 2 diff. sides of benny hinn. n i asked her: can u say benny hinn is a liar juz cos he made a few mistakes? is it rite to establish a truth based on a few experiences? then wad diff. r u from a charismatic? charismatism is criticised cos ppl there establish a truth based on a single experience...i feel tat as christians, we shld nt judge one another but rather focus on our common enemy...Satan, who is trying to cause division among us... -
Interestingly the people who denied the fundamentals of Christiainity were numerous, and in many case they co-exist peacefully with the "orthodox" believers. I think at one time, the number of "unorthodox" believers almost surpass the number of "orthodox" believers.Originally posted by despondent:tats y i believe tat the term 'diff. doctrine' is very specific...meaning tat it refers to ppl who deny the fundamentals of christianity...or ppl of other religion who have ability to perform miracles...cun be toking abt other denomination or it wil be nvr ending n it wil be clear tat the devil is causing disunity within the body of christ...he is here to kill, steal n destroy... -
to laoda:
can u assure me ur pastor has nvr made mistakes b4 in preaching? it may nt have been spotted by ur congregation but itn God's eyes, he could have made mistakes...lets face it... pastors r nt perfect either...so can i say ur pastor is a false messenger of God juz cos he made mistakes b4? nt trying to defend benny hinn...juz trying to be objective...
every christan claims to be convicted by the Spirit...but yet we have diff. doctrine beliefs...its nt the Holy Spirit fault, its the imperfection of man...i noe of ppl who come to my church n said:there r so many flaws in ur pastor's preaching...n i told them: how abt i go to ur church(wif the assumption tat my church doctrine is 100% correct) n say ur pastor has lots of flaws in his preaching? u see to us they r flaws cos they dun match our beliefs...but can we be 100% sure our doctrine is 100% correct? if u claim tis, then u r saying tat other fellow pastors of diff. denomination r wrong...very judgmental -
so if this is the case, then there is no such thing as christianity, since the preachings of ANY pastor can differ from one to another.Originally posted by despondent:to laoda:
can u assure me ur pastor has nvr made mistakes b4 in preaching? it may nt have been spotted by ur congregation but itn God's eyes, he could have made mistakes...lets face it... pastors r nt perfect either...so can i say ur pastor is a false messenger of God juz cos he made mistakes b4? nt trying to defend benny hinn...juz trying to be objective...
every christan claims to be convicted by the Spirit...but yet we have diff. doctrine beliefs...its nt the Holy Spirit fault, its the imperfection of man...i noe of ppl who come to my church n said:there r so many flaws in ur pastor's preaching...n i told them: how abt i go to ur church(wif the assumption tat my church doctrine is 100% correct) n say ur pastor has lots of flaws in his preaching? u see to us they r flaws cos they dun match our beliefs...but can we be 100% sure our doctrine is 100% correct? if u claim tis, then u r saying tat other fellow pastors of diff. denomination r wrong...very judgmental
why are there people arguing about true christians/fake christians and all that jazz.
you are a christian if you believe in God, period.
if homosexuality is wrong, then why did God create something imperfect and wrong for humans to be able to even have a chance to sin.
come to think about it, it sounds kinda sick, in my opinion. why would God want to create humans, make them imperfect, so that God can punish them. isnt this rather sadistic? -
Originally posted by despondent:
For the people genuinely "healed" by benny hinn, what kind of ailments and what is the follow up later? Did it sustain or relapse?
i agree with wad u said... but a bt benny hinn, i would like to say tat no human is perfect..i have a bible-presbyterian frend who told me she saw video clips of ppl getting 'healed' by benny hinn yet in the end nt healed...but i told her i have seen ppl genuinely getting healed by benny hinn, so wad can u say?
seems like we have seen 2 diff. sides of benny hinn. n i asked her: can u say benny hinn is a liar juz cos he made a few mistakes? is it rite to establish a truth based on a few experiences? then wad diff. r u from a charismatic? charismatism is criticised cos ppl there establish a truth based on a single experience...i feel tat as christians, we shld nt judge one another but rather focus on our common enemy...Satan, who is trying to cause division among us...
Most of the ailments cured which I heard in charismatic church here is stiff/pain on parts of the body which I cannot confirm.
Think Benny Hinn also tried to raise the dead from TV evangelical program. Is that biblical? Obviously not.
Anything that is extra-biblical (e.g God tells me) and depend on "voices" is dangerous. I personally believe the only pple who hear audible voices in their heads are schizoprenic. God's message usually comes in more indirect way, at least for me.
What I am trying to emphasize here is not to cause division, rather than alert pple to the fact that some things said by charismatic pastors are unsound. As Christians we should not be afraid to speak up for things that are not right. -
U know I cannot, but Benny Hinn, he has made such claims which I found weird and to a large extent ridiculous.Originally posted by despondent:to laoda:
can u assure me ur pastor has nvr made mistakes b4 in preaching? it may nt have been spotted by ur congregation but itn God's eyes, he could have made mistakes...lets face it... pastors r nt perfect either...so can i say ur pastor is a false messenger of God juz cos he made mistakes b4? nt trying to defend benny hinn...juz trying to be objective...
every christan claims to be convicted by the Spirit...but yet we have diff. doctrine beliefs...its nt the Holy Spirit fault, its the imperfection of man...i noe of ppl who come to my church n said:there r so many flaws in ur pastor's preaching...n i told them: how abt i go to ur church(wif the assumption tat my church doctrine is 100% correct) n say ur pastor has lots of flaws in his preaching? u see to us they r flaws cos they dun match our beliefs...but can we be 100% sure our doctrine is 100% correct? if u claim tis, then u r saying tat other fellow pastors of diff. denomination r wrong...very judgmental
All I know is, check the bible for reference. If what the pastor says is not in the bible, it is extra-biblical and must be take with caution. I always do that in church but I doubt pple in big charismatic churches do, as they always say:" Pastor XXX says" rather than what the bible says. -
if homosexuality is wrong, then why did God create something imperfect and wrong for humans to be able to even have a chance to sin.
come to think about it, it sounds kinda sick, in my opinion. why would God want to create humans, make them imperfect, so that God can punish them. isnt this rather sadistic?
to coffeeortea:
God does nt create things imperfect...u muz understand the diff. btw allowing things to happen n making things happen...God did nt make adam sin...he allow adam the freewill to choose...God had foreknowledge tat adam wil sin but he did nt create adam to sin...issues like homosexuality exist after man had fallen...when adam sinned, sin crept into tis earth n tat allowed all kinds of problems to enter the world...satan is the one who created the problems...why doesnt God stop it? lets put it tis way, how do u noe God has nt stopped many disasters from happening? wadever God has stopped, can u see it? u cun see sth happening when God has alredi stopped it from starting in the 1st place.
christians onli defer in the deeper issues of the bible...n its understandable cos we r nt perfect, we r nt at the same level as God...so we cun fully comprehend His Word...reason y mormons n JWs r called cults cos they deny christian fundamentals...n even chrismatics(save the extreme ones) dont deny the fundamentals...tats y they r stil classified as christians...cults go to the extend as to say tat jesus was nt born perfect...some said God had sexual relations wif mary n gave birth to jesus...u dun find any denomination from mainstream christianity claiming those 'truths'. -
the bible should be our basis....there maybe slight difference in denominations but the most important should be bible as basis....what is not said in the bible we take with discernment....e.g the holy communion for health / wealth gospelOriginally posted by coffeeortea:so if this is the case, then there is no such thing as christianity, since the preachings of ANY pastor can differ from one to another.
why are there people arguing about true christians/fake christians and all that jazz.
you are a christian if you believe in God, period.
if homosexuality is wrong, then why did God create something imperfect and wrong for humans to be able to even have a chance to sin.
come to think about it, it sounds kinda sick, in my opinion. why would God want to create humans, make them imperfect, so that God can punish them. isnt this rather sadistic?
for your second part is more difficult to answer. I do not think anyone of us can explain why god do this and not that, and we cannot and will not be able to tell god what he should do and what he should not.
But what we can do is to trust god that he is in control. Think from a different perspective: god is always in control even though how man has failed. -
By saying that, you have just condemned the other groups as "seducing spirits and lying wonders". What makes you think they dont have truth intheir teachings? It is egoistic of you to think that yours is the one and only one and the others are not.Originally posted by despondent:i juz wanna point out tat these cults are growing rapidly n their doctrines are appealing to man...well, in a way, its gd tat all these r happening...it proves the bible rite...tat in the last days, many wil depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits n lying wonders....tat man wil become boasters of themselves...the Word of God rocks!!!