If Jesus is a God.......
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yah .. I think you were the one who told me in another topic.Originally posted by laoda99:benny hinn is one...trying to raise the dead thru television....
My point is, you don't need to be GOD to do those things. -
The most important thing is:- these miracles performed by Christ, are in accordance with what the messiah will do when he arrive (as recorded in the OT).Originally posted by Icemoon:yah .. I think you were the one who told me in another topic.
My point is, you don't need to be GOD to do those things.
There is no dispute that Christ has fulfilled all the requirements of being messiah/god. -
Furthermore, no prophet in the OT can do what Christ did, forgiving sins and redeeming for ur sins.Originally posted by Icemoon:yah .. I think you were the one who told me in another topic.
My point is, you don't need to be GOD to do those things. -
Since when was Jesus' insane claims to Godhood based on his abilities? It seems that if anything He witheld a lot of these abilities that would have otherwise overwritten many doubts.
Could it be something else? -
I agree.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:Since when was Jesus' insane claims to Godhood based on his abilities? It seems that if anything He witheld a lot of these abilities that would have otherwise overwritten many doubts.
Could it be something else?
For example, He could have sent legions of angels, but He didn't.
So what you think is the something else? -
split personalityOriginally posted by Icemoon:I agree.
For example, He could have sent legions of angels, but He didn't.
So what you think is the something else?
hello passionate self! -
Technically, God cannot forgive sins commited against another person. If He can, then where is justice?Originally posted by laoda99:Furthermore, no prophet in the OT can do what Christ did, forgiving sins and redeeming for ur sins.
The Jews celebrate Yom Kippur, which means Day of Atonement. As quoted from http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday4.htm:Yom Kippur atones only for sins between man and G-d, not for sins against another person. To atone for sins against another person, you must first seek reconciliation with that person, righting the wrongs you committed against them if possible. That must all be done before Yom Kippur
There is a reason for the order - reconciliation with people, then with God.
As summarized by Jesus, all the commandments can be summarized into love God and love your neighbours. If you cannot love your neighbours, how can you love God? That's why we should seek reconciliation with people first, then with God. -
a one liner can be passionate self?Originally posted by laoda99:split personality
hello passionate self!
then what about the reply on Yom Kippur? Fanatic level liao.
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i still say u split personality...now u say Christ could have sent legions of angels but he didn't. Previously u seem to be anti-Christ.Originally posted by Icemoon:a one liner can be passionate self?
then what about the reply on Yom Kippur? Fanatic level liao.
Who is Christ to u? Pls decide. -
Dun think what u say is correct (the part in red).....
But i agree abt the part in blue.
and i still say u split personality....now u say good things abt Christ....
Who is Christ to u? Pls decide
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quote by icemoon
Technically, God cannot forgive sins commited against another person. If He can, then where is justice?
The Jews celebrate Yom Kippur, which means Day of Atonement. As quoted from http://www.jewfaq.org/holiday4.htm:
quote:
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Yom Kippur atones only for sins between man and G-d, not for sins against another person. To atone for sins against another person, you must first seek reconciliation with that person, righting the wrongs you committed against them if possible. That must all be done before Yom Kippur
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There is a reason for the order - reconciliation with people, then with God.
As summarized by Jesus, all the commandments can be summarized into love God and love your neighbours. If you cannot love your neighbours, how can you love God? That's why we should seek reconciliation with people first, then with God. -
Simple logic.Originally posted by laoda99:Dun think what u say is correct (in red).....
Technically, God cannot forgive sins commited against another person. If He can, then where is justice?
If you hurt someone, you sin against that person and not God. So how can God represent that person to forgive you? In most cases, that person is not even ready to forgive you because you were not sincere in your apologies.
Even Gomez understood this logic. He apologized to the correct people. -
listen to " god is a girl" by groove
& u will understand why?
U know who to worship and ur worry will be gone! -
Technically, God cannot forgive sins commited against another person. If He can, then where is justice?
This is certainly true... but then again it turns out that all sins against another person will end up being a sin against God... and I suspect the offence against God is larger in just about any sin we care to do to others.
Can He forgive the personal offense against the victim? I suppose that's up to the very victim to forgive, but the victim might do well to realize that that God had forgiven the larger and more profound fault against Himself in this affair, not to mention also paid the price that all sins required of.
Hence I suspect a refusal to forgive the other person by the him (human, not God) offended actually means a rejection of the perfect sacrifice for all of men's sins... and hence in an effect cutting himself off from that ultimate atonement as well. This is my own reasoning I suppose, but I think that could be why unforgiveness can be such a serious problem. -
IMHO, god wants us to seek recouncilation with that person first, hence we should do that.....but I think god has powers to forgive (all) sins....if he so wishes....afterall...he is god.....just my opinionOriginally posted by Icemoon:Simple logic.
If you hurt someone, you sin against that person and not God. So how can God represent that person to forgive you? In most cases, that person is not even ready to forgive you because you were not sincere in your apologies.
Even Gomez understood this logic. He apologized to the correct people.
hey...u still haven answer my question...who is Christ to u, logical self!
U can give me three or more than 3 answers from each of your personality if u want -
Anti Christ? Where you get that impression?Originally posted by laoda99:i still say u split personality...now u say Christ could have sent legions of angels but he didn't. Previously u seem to be anti-Christ.
Even the Dalai Lama, who don't believe in Christ like you do, praised Christ.
You are using PAP and George Bush logic again - "if you are not for me, you are against me". -
Must I go back all the threads to quote u meh?Originally posted by Icemoon:Anti Christ? Where you get that impression?
Even the Dalai Lama, who don't believe in Christ like you do, praised Christ.
You are using PAP and George Bush logic again - "if you are not for me, you are against me".
And u still haven answer my question....
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It could have something to do with insane claims to Godhood and being the only possible way to the final end of Divine Incongruence... backed up of course, by what the Christian claim to be fufilled prophecy.Originally posted by Icemoon:I agree.
For example, He could have sent legions of angels, but He didn't.
So what you think is the something else? -
I think Christians, especially Protestants, are famous for not seeking reconciliation with other people. They only know how to pray for God's forgiveness and hope God, by proxy, forgive your sins commited against another person.Originally posted by laoda99:IMHO, god wants us to seek recouncilation with that person, hence we should do that.....but I think god has powers to forgive (all) sins....if he so wishes....afterall...he is god.....
The Jews are not really concerned whether all sins are forgiven. After all, not everyone can forgive you. What matters most is your heart. God sees the heart. -
Part in red....how u noe?Originally posted by Icemoon:I think Christians, especially Protestants, are famous for not seeking reconciliation with other people. They only know how to pray for God's forgiveness and hope God, by proxy, forgive your sins commited against another person.
The Jews are not really concerned whether all sins are forgiven. After all, not everyone can forgive you. What matters most is your heart. God sees the heart.
answer my question can? or i will bug u in every post -
A valid criticism of Christians... but I don't think such a thing was ever meant to be even a part of any kind of mere Christianity. But I suspect it's one of the scandals and abuses that would rise up from having such a Grace.
Reconcilation as far as possible is certainly important, if not required everytime we mess something up. Ignoring it is most likely another evil in itself. I do for that matter think it's important for Christians to reconcile as much as they can, but I hardly think such a common failing is an indication of a defect of this Grace... it seems to me more of an abuse from a defect and callous viewing of our salvation then an inherent flaw in the notion.
It seems to me to be an issue of having a lack of heartware to sustain the rigours that Grace demands of us. If I wanted to right a wrong I would certainly have to make it right with that person, but yet of course know that I still have the safety net of Grace to fall upon, and the the ultimate forgiveness is assured. Sad that we should view such an incredible thing as a reason to avoid the discomfort of living the lifestyle that Grace should make us live. Maybe many of us do take it for granted.
But yet in nowhere have we gotten near a proper criticism of the invalidity of Christian Grace. It is a scandal I admit, but no where near the scandal that the infinite should become as lowly as the finite and ignorant such as us in order just to demostrate some weird thing call Love that even the best of our saints have barely started to understand.
One might as well critique free will for allowing so many evils to happen -
Agree.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:This is certainly true... but then again it turns out that all sins against another person will end up being a sin against God... and I suspect the offence against God is larger in just about any sin we care to do to others.
I mentioned before, the 10 commandments can be divided into roughly two groups, those dealing with God and those dealing with fellow human beings. That is why Jesus can summarize all commandments into "love your God" and "love your neighbours".
I also mentioned before that the Jews have this rather interesting belief:
The Jews bo heed God and sinned against Him in the OT, as a result their nation/Temple was destroyed and they went into exile/diaspora. But this lasts for only 70 years. Fast forward to the time of Jesus Christ. Now the Jews were extremely pious (too pious like the pharisee, you'd say) but they were heartless to fellow human beings. There was even this suggestion the Sabbath was above human life. So extreme were they that the invading Romans once attacked them and the Jews, instead of taking up defence, continued their Sabbath observance! (guess what happened to them?)
And the results? The nation/Temple was destroyed .. for 2000 years!
Thus the Jews believe that the sin to fellow human is greater than the sin to God. But of course, if you sin against fellow human, God will also be angry, and it is fair to say that overall you have sinned against God. This is evident from the simple logic:
if you love me then follow my commandments => if you don't follow my commandments mean you don't love me!Can He forgive the personal offense against the victim? I suppose that's up to the very victim to forgive, but the victim might do well to realize that that God had forgiven the larger and more profound fault against Himself in this affair, not to mention also paid the price that all sins required of.
God paid the price? Did the victim receive any "compensation"? So God paid the price to who? -
This is so evident.Originally posted by laoda99:Part in red....how u noe?
Have you apologized to Heng for calling her names? -
Christ paid the full price of sin on behalf of mankind to God.Originally posted by Icemoon:God paid the price? Did the victim receive any "compensation"? So God paid the price to who?
But think ur devil advocate and logical side won't agree, becoz u are split personality. -
hmmm......I call her wat???Originally posted by Icemoon:This is so evident.
Have you apologized to Heng for calling her names?
u angry becoz i make fun of ur gf? -
You still have the cheek to ask "I call her wat"?Originally posted by laoda99:hmmm......I call her wat???
u angry becoz i make fun of ur gf?
not angry. just a little disappointed with you. still trying to siam .. just like PAP.
Do you need a press secretary to "clarify" for you?