Pastor Prince is a false prophet?
-
John,Originally posted by Repented John 2:Oh ok sorry. I was meaning that since he has plenty of church members, maybe God was appointing him as an apostle or prophet.
You mean apostleship not determined by size of church? Then how do you measure apostleship or prophetship?
if its going to be by the size of the church, then there are a few churches in Singapore much bigger in size then NCC, then their pastors how? and there are churches tens even hundreds of times bigger than NCC around the world, then how?
Like I say, these are appointments made by God, not men, the onus will be on God to confirm His approval/appointment.
God Bless...
-
Strange thing, going by the conversation, I would have thought RJ2 is the heretic, not Prince. Those who cast the stone must be sinless?
One of the things i noted recently in this forum is, how come the sudden general interests of few people, hopefully not clones
, to harp on the topic of heresy and NCC? -
When it comes to beliefs (not facts) everything is open to interpretation. There is no right or wrong.
I believe that in the system androantegeisy that are living aliens who all look like Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt...
Anyon who says that somebody else is interpretating the bible wrongly is just foolish... -
[quote]Originally posted by Repented John 2:
[b]I just feel that the style of Ps Prince is like a sales motivational speaker someone like Anthony Robbins. I agree speaking positive is necessary but it sounds so much like worldy motivational training courses from renowned speakers like Jim Rohn, Robbins, etc. I think people doing business will do very well in NCC. That's why Ps Prince said this year will be the year of acceleration for his people. But i don't totally agree with the business psyche. Businessmen usually con people, then to absolve their guilt they donate to church or charity. Or else how they become so rich?
So juz becoz Ps Prince's style of presentation is not to ur liking, you brand him a heretic? So all pastors are not supposed to be good speakers...they only have a set of "approved" manner of speaking, otherwise they are heretics?
Again u take Ps Prince message out of context with regards to the year of acceleration. It is not confined only to business. It applies to all aspects of our lives, including our family, our health, school, work, walk with God etc.
"Businessmen usually con people, then to absolve their guilt, they donate to church or charity" - sweeping statement isn't it? Thats like saying all rich people are con people coz they are ill gotten gains....
tsk tsk..... -
[quote]Originally posted by Repented John 2:
[b]I don't know all the verses but certain verses are very famous already. There's already a known interpretation but Ps Prince seems to twist them all somehow to suit his grace message. For eg, i once heard Ps Prince preach abt the parable of the vine. Yes, when we abide in Christ we are blessed but what happens when we don't? When he came to the part abt the pruning of the branches he skipped it without much explaining. I saw his face change a bit as if he tried to hide something. Well can he say God will prune us & make us suffer so we can grow? He can't right with all the prosperity & health & wealth message he is preaching? That's only one personal eg.
Do you understand the word 'abide"? So what about pruning? Theologians and pastors/elders differ on what are the actual meaning to this parable. But does it mean Ps Prince is wrong? not necessary so. Does God make us suffer? even tat pastors differ.
Prosperity/health/wealth - if u have a kid, dun u wan him to be in good health? or u prefer him to be sick all the time? dun u wan him to do well in his studies, career and prosper in not juz money but also in his family, in giving, in enjoying life? If u as an earthly father would want the best, then are u saying our Heavenly Father wants us to be sick, be poor, be in poverty and suffer? Funny rite?
Yes, God can work miracles despite our human failings but to desecrate the Holy Communion & still get healing is heresy. Where does the healing come from then? Could be the devil?
How has NCC's manner of taking the Holy Communion be a desecration to u?
Bcoz they believe tat taking the Holy Communion is in remembrance of Jesus, and for Him to suffer all that whipping and beatings on His body SO THAT BY HIS STRIPES WE ARE HEALED and by His death and shedding of His precious blood on the Cross we have forgiveness of sins? So this is desecration to u?
There is nothing wrong with Christians being well off but is it the main point of being a Christian ie. to be well off? I have bought books from NCC bookshop that subscribes to the WOF heresy, false prosperity message etc. One book says Money Cometh! I thot Christ cometh not money cometh! It was a book teaching abt tithing & offerings. Many books by heretical pastors like Kenneth Copeland etc are found in the bkshop of NCC. Do you Rhema is getting heretical as well in the US?
Others denominations have said that Billy Graham is heretic becoz he once seek audience with the pope. U believe? Nothing wrong with Kenneth Copeland. U are taking things out of context again. So being a Christian means u cannot be rich, or drive cars? only if u are poor and suffering, then u are holy?
Letz put it this way, Ps Prince is not wrong when he said God wants us to be rich. The bible is full of examples of God's servants who were blessed by Him. Ps Prince preached this many times - Dun use people to get money, but use money to bless people. If i am not a Christian, and i am in desperate and genuine financial need.....i go to a Christian for help - who would be more helpful to me? The Christian who says "I'll pray for u" and not give a single cent becoz he can't afford it or the Christian who says "here take this money and I'll pray for u too"?
Ok stop here. Thanks for your comments.[/b]
Stop here? If u wish to make sweeping statements, then u ought to be prepared to listen. Get ur facts rite first No malice intended. cheers. -
Like you say in your last statement, appts are made by God & onus is on God to confirm His approval/appt, so since Ps Prince is so successful in winning souls fo God judging by the size of his church, don't u think God has already confirmed him? I don't know how to judge whether apostle or not but since Ps Prince is so successful, i judge him a prophet or apostle. Apostle Paul also had many converts thru his many many churches, big & small. He like Ps Prince is known worldwide then.Originally posted by vince69:John,
if its going to be by the size of the church, then there are a few churches in Singapore much bigger in size then NCC, then their pastors how? and there are churches tens even hundreds of times bigger than NCC around the world, then how?
Like I say, these are appointments made by God, not men, the onus will be on God to confirm His approval/appointment.
God Bless...
U said many churches bigger than NCC but which one? I thot NCC already no 2 in size. Why not put it this way? Maybe the pastor of CHC also an apostle of God like Ps Prince? Maybe the big churches also apostles? -
Originally posted by Repented John 2:Like you say in your last statement, appts are made by God & onus is on God to confirm His approval/appt, so since Ps Prince is so successful in winning souls fo God judging by the size of his church, don't u think God has already confirmed him? I don't know how to judge whether apostle or not but since Ps Prince is so successful, i judge him a prophet or apostle. Apostle Paul also had many converts thru his many many churches, big & small. He like Ps Prince is known worldwide then.
U said many churches bigger than NCC but which one? I thot NCC already no 2 in size. Why not put it this way? Maybe the pastor of CHC also an apostle of God like Ps Prince? Maybe the big churches also apostles?
KSM!! -
Originally posted by Give Thanks:
I never said i don't like his style. I did mention i like it in the beginning. Pls read my earliest post. I brand him a heretic not bcos of his style but the message he preaches. All prosperity & health, just like some motivational speakers & teachers, who are worldly men.
[b
So juz becoz Ps Prince's style of presentation is not to ur liking, you brand him a heretic? So all pastors are not supposed to be good speakers...they only have a set of "approved" manner of speaking, otherwise they are heretics?
Again u take Ps Prince message out of context with regards to the year of acceleration. It is not confined only to business. It applies to all aspects of our lives, including our family, our health, school, work, walk with God etc.
"Businessmen usually con people, then to absolve their guilt, they donate to church or charity" - sweeping statement isn't it? Thats like saying all rich people are con people coz they are ill gotten gains....
tsk tsk.....
[/b]
I didnt take out of context. Like what u said, it meant business also. I think in its context it will still mean prosperity & health bcos how can family, school, work, walk etc accelerate if not grow wealthy & healthy?
I know businesspeople. I have come across them. They don't need education to grow rich. Why leh? I ask you lah! There is no equal sum game. 80% of the wealth goes to 20% of the people. It's a fact. It's the 80/20 pareto rule. How did all these wealth get to the minority if not by conning? How did all the money get sucked to these people? You mean God rain the money on them & neglected the poor people below? Then i must say God is a really unfair God who favours the rich. But is He like this? -
Size and "success" were never the factors, from what I can see from Scripture.Originally posted by Repented John 2:Like you say in your last statement, appts are made by God & onus is on God to confirm His approval/appt, so since Ps Prince is so successful in winning souls fo God judging by the size of his church, don't u think God has already confirmed him? I don't know how to judge whether apostle or not but since Ps Prince is so successful, i judge him a prophet or apostle. Apostle Paul also had many converts thru his many many churches, big & small. He like Ps Prince is known worldwide then.
U said many churches bigger than NCC but which one? I thot NCC already no 2 in size. Why not put it this way? Maybe the pastor of CHC also an apostle of God like Ps Prince? Maybe the big churches also apostles?
When the prophets of old talked, most Jews bochup.
The apostles of new were more successful, but there were also other people who were successful, like Simon Magnus the magician. The Church declared certain theologies to be heretical, the leaders of those also quite successful.
Furthermore, how you defind success? I think Pastor Prince's message like leave many people confused, you yourself seem to be one good example. -
Originally posted by Icemoon:Size and "success" were never the factors, from what I can see from Scripture.
When the prophets of old talked, most Jews bochup.
The apostles of new were more successful, but there were also other people who were successful, like Simon Magnus the magician. The Church declared certain theologies to be heretical, the leaders of those also quite successful.
Furthermore, how you defind success? I think Pastor Prince's message like leave many people confused, you yourself seem to be one good example. 
huh....
Vince69 trying very hard to act blurr -
Originally posted by Give Thanks:
I am no theologian so i can't give theological arguments. Abide means to remain in Christ w/c i suppose is to seek His help in all that we do & we can do nothing without Him. Pruning as we know is like cutting away the lousy parts so that the good parts can grow? So doesnt this involve a bit of suffering & pain? Perhaps u can enlighten me on what the other theologians said.
Do you understand the word 'abide"? So what about pruning? Theologians and pastors/elders differ on what are the actual meaning to this parable. But does it mean Ps Prince is wrong? not necessary so. Does God make us suffer? even tat pastors differ.
Prosperity/health/wealth - if u have a kid, dun u wan him to be in good health? or u prefer him to be sick all the time? dun u wan him to do well in his studies, career and prosper in not juz money but also in his family, in giving, in enjoying life? If u as an earthly father would want the best, then are u saying our Heavenly Father wants us to be sick, be poor, be in poverty and suffer? Funny rite?
How has NCC's manner of taking the Holy Communion be a desecration to u?
Bcoz they believe tat taking the Holy Communion is in remembrance of Jesus, and for Him to suffer all that whipping and beatings on His body SO THAT BY HIS STRIPES WE ARE HEALED and by His death and shedding of His precious blood on the Cross we have forgiveness of sins? So this is desecration to u?
Others denominations have said that Billy Graham is heretic becoz he once seek audience with the pope. U believe? Nothing wrong with Kenneth Copeland. U are taking things out of context again. So being a Christian means u cannot be rich, or drive cars? only if u are poor and suffering, then u are holy?
Letz put it this way, Ps Prince is not wrong when he said God wants us to be rich. The bible is full of examples of God's servants who were blessed by Him. Ps Prince preached this many times - Dun use people to get money, but use money to bless people. If i am not a Christian, and i am in desperate and genuine financial need.....i go to a Christian for help - who would be more helpful to me? The Christian who says "I'll pray for u" and not give a single cent becoz he can't afford it or the Christian who says "here take this money and I'll pray for u too"?
Ok stop here. Thanks for your comments.
Stop here? If u wish to make sweeping statements, then u ought to be prepared to listen. Get ur facts rite first No malice intended. cheers.
[/b]
I never said God wants us to be sick, poor, etc but did God promise ripe cherries will fall into our laps when we become Christians? Yes, as a father i want my children to be happy & blessed but does it always involve money or will my children always be healthy? What happens if they fall sick due to viruses etc? We live in a sinful world so we also fall sick, become poor etc. & what if God doesnt want to give the wealth or health we ask for? Or what if some believer dies of poor health, or suffers poor health or is poor? U mean God is unkind to that believer? So many people's faith are wrecked bcos Prince & others preach health & wealth but when they are poor & sick they feel rejected by God.
The Holy Communion was desecrated when it wasnt done properly, like not using the proper materials etc. The message behind it wasnt wrong as by His stripes we are healed, but even theologians differ on what this means. Does it mean even sickness can be healed or just our sins healed?
People has already been criticisizing Billy Graham, Kenneth Copeland etc for a long time. Search the web & Christians are saying Billy Graham actually works for the devil in wanting an ecumenical church under the catholics etc. Copeland again is a prosperity preacher & some things he did wasnt really truthful. Again i never said Christians cannot be rich, healthy etc. I said if Christians are rich & healthy, then God approves of them but not those who are poor & sick?
Not just Christians have been charitable btw just to tell u. I have met charitable people from other religions or no religion. So are you saying the Christian who has no money but sincerely prays for the person is of lower grade or status than a Christian who is very rich & gives money & prays at the same time? See what i mean. That was my pt all along! -
not you, don't worry.Originally posted by vince69: huh.... Vince69 trying very hard to act blurr -
Correct precisely. But real apostles usually have big churches bcos many people listen to them & converts. Even Jesus had a huge following. But when Jesus was under trail how many were with Him? Why did the whole city changed all of a sudden from everyone shouting Hallelujah to Him into crucify Him? Where are all the people? So i am confused like u said.Originally posted by Icemoon:Size and "success" were never the factors, from what I can see from Scripture.
When the prophets of old talked, most Jews bochup.
The apostles of new were more successful, but there were also other people who were successful, like Simon Magnus the magician. The Church declared certain theologies to be heretical, the leaders of those also quite successful.
Furthermore, how you defind success? I think Pastor Prince's message like leave many people confused, you yourself seem to be one good example. -
I ask you Repented John 2, what is your purpose in posting this thread? To warn others of NCC and of Pst. Prince? Do remember your statements amount to slandering. I question your purpose in this thread.
-
I don't believe that there is any slander in Johnnie-boy's comment. He is just giving his opinions on the theological stands of Joe Prince. I think he is, at least entitled to that.Originally posted by pwnz0r:I ask you Repented John 2, what is your purpose in posting this thread? To warn others of NCC and of Pst. Prince? Do remember your statements amount to slandering. I question your purpose in this thread.
For starters, the appropriate word is NOT slander but libel, adjective is LIBELOUS.
Popular religious leaders are always under constant scrutiny of their lifestyles and theology. Joe Prince should not expect anything less than that.
There is also a large schism pertaining to whether health/wealth gospel is Biblical or not. This being so, Christians are responsible to themselves to gauge, basing on their understand of scripture to come to a conclusion on such matters.
This is not to say that I agree with John's original thread. -
what is the diff ah?Originally posted by Chin Eng:For starters, the appropriate word is NOT slander but libel, adjective is LIBELOUS.
which one is fei3 bang4?
-
Slander is spoken, libel is written. I don't think the mandarin term makes this distinction.Originally posted by Icemoon:what is the diff ah?
which one is fei3 bang4?
I might be splitting hairs here, but I think we can all learn something each day. -
I dont understand. How did i slander or libel? I was stating some pts that i observed i his church or his teaching. I didnt say he was a "corrupt immoral man" or anything like this.Originally posted by pwnz0r:I ask you Repented John 2, what is your purpose in posting this thread? To warn others of NCC and of Pst. Prince? Do remember your statements amount to slandering. I question your purpose in this thread. -
1. You called him a prophet when he never agreed to the label. Even magician Khong need to agree on his title of apostle.Originally posted by Repented John 2:I dont understand. How did i slander or libel? I was stating some pts that i observed i his church or his teaching. I didnt say he was a "corrupt immoral man" or anything like this.
2. Prophet might be a compliment .. but not when you prefix it with 'false'. -
They are only getting treasures here on earth..........Originally posted by Repented John 2:Ps Prince has the stature of an Apostle & Prophet considering the size of his church & his controversial message.
But then again are present day Apostles suffering like what the past Apostles are suffering? NO. I see them driving big cars & having plenty of credit cards & living in big houses etc. -
For once, for a long time, I agree with you.Originally posted by Repented John 2:I dont understand. How did i slander or libel? I was stating some pts that i observed i his church or his teaching. I didnt say he was a "corrupt immoral man" or anything like this.
For point 1, it is not libel.... just like folks around you calling you "boss"Originally posted by Icemoon:1. You called him a prophet when he never agreed to the label. Even magician Khong need to agree on his title of apostle.
2. Prophet might be a compliment .. but not when you prefix it with 'false'. but I agree that Prince did not give himself this title.
For point 2, he's asking a question: is he a false prophet?
Technically, I can sue anyone calling me boss, because it is libel.