Gnosticism
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explain.Originally posted by M©+square:Hmm....Not so Calvinist verse don't you think so?
btw Calvisnist r bible-believing too.
St Augustine was also a Calvinist. -
x 2. Idiots can be smart....but they refused.Originally posted by vince69:Pls note,
autistic people are simply mentally challenged in relating to the world around them, they can learn and be good at what they do also, you may be surprised that some of them may have very high IQ also.
idiots on the other hand are normally refered to those who are simply ignorant and fool hardly.
so, its not fair to put them together.
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That verse is focused on the THEYsOriginally posted by NT2:explain.
btw Calvisnist r bible-believing too.
St Augustine was also a Calvinist.
Total Inablility (Total Depravity)
They do not have the ablility to hear or see, speak or read UNLESS they are regenerated.
If so, the regenerated disqualifies themselves?
So that verse refers to a choice. Or that verse refers to non elect AND the elected as well?
Irresistable Grace
THEYs in that verse refers to? Contect reading refers to Christians right?
Are these people in the first place saved? Are these people the non elected?
First, God decides and everything is in place.
Then this verse appeared, seems to tell me that now men; decides.
So now Men have Free will?
I wish to be enlightened by a true blue Calvinist.
p.s I know St Augustine is a Calvinist. So? -
One word of concious, everything you see on TV (and on the internet as well as all other medium) must be taken with a pinch of salt.Originally posted by nightzip:Well, its been telecast in Nat.Geographic. The early compilers for the new testament did not incorporate the gospels in because they do not have the aptitude to understand what is written in the Gnostic gospels. Ofcourse, we know that leaders of Christianity in that period are exceptionally narrow-minded (Bare in mind the inquisition and the witchcraft percecutions, etc)
Being shallow (maybe not a good word) or people who do not have high wisdom, they could not fathom that the "Gnostic" gospels are actually philosophical and methophorical. Also, ofcourse, they do not fit well with the easier accepted gospels as they were easier to understand.
Hmm...i was just thinking, if they had accepted these gospels (Gnostic), then Christianity would have evolves into something like Buddhism or Confuscianism, which are philosophical and ever-lasting. Then there wouldnt be such a "crisis" now for them.
Sorry, just my 2 cents worth. Dun flame me please.
these so call Gnostic gospel are if simply put, came about when someone feels that they have an 'extra special insider' knowledge about the things of the God, and this appeal especially to those who enjoy the so called 'conspiracy theory'.
The gospel of Judas is definitely not written by Judas Iscariot, mainly because he is probably dead (committed sucide) before its even penned, and most likely is not even an account from him as well, making this at best a speculation on what had transpired.
God bless.
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The following is pure speculation on my own on how this gospel came about, I have not done any research on this, do not take any of this too seriously.
" one day, a group of scholars came together and have a chat, they came to this discussion on the question "I wonder why would a disciple of the Lord, after seeing all the mircales and wonders, decided to betray him?, since the scriptures did not mention any reason for this, perhaps we should play detective and try to understand this Judas Iscariot character by putting ourselves in his shoes"....., hence the birth of the Gospel of Judas." -
Hi Vince, this is my interpretation of how the "subsequent" gospels came about.
Also, we have to bare in mind that the Gnostic gospels are by Mary, Judas etc. Do you think there is a chance for them to write what happened during that time or do you think the apostles have more time to write?
The Gnostic gospels could have been written much later, perhaps even at the dying stage of Mary or Judas or others, due to the percecution by the supposedly "right" christians? Or that the remaining followers for them, after reading the OT, thinks that it is not exactly correct, and therefore sets about writing the gospels to "right" the wrongs in the OT and NT? -
hai, can't even be bothered to argue about this sort of things anymore. just know that i have accepted christ into my life, and i'll continue to do good and obey the ten commandments.
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The Apostles for eg Paul did refer to extrabiblical books in their epistles. For eg, Paul mentioned the letter to the Laodiceans which is extrabiblical & not in the bible. Also Jude mentioned a verse from the book of Enoch.
Col. 4:16: "And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea."
Jude 1:14: "Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men: "See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones"" -
St Augustine is a Calvinist???
Yeah, he believed in predestination and stuff but his concept of these things was very different from the Calvinist's beliefs. -
Actually I wouldn't count any Christian other than those from BP, P and Reformed Tradition to be true blue Calvinist.Originally posted by M©+square:I wish to be enlightened by a true blue Calvinist. -
more speculations....Originally posted by nightzip:Hi Vince, this is my interpretation of how the "subsequent" gospels came about.
hey...
I also am speculating, right...
hahahahahahaha.... -
In one sense, yeah. At least they are consistent in their beliefs. But at the expense....Originally posted by Icemoon:Actually I wouldn't count any Christian other than those from BP, P and Reformed Tradition to be true blue Calvinist. -
Those BP people are also the most die hard young earth creationists.Originally posted by M©+square:In one sense, yeah. At least they are consistent in their beliefs. But at the expense.... -
Gnosticism is trying to veil God once again after He being unveiled in Christ.
What God reveals, Gnostics tries to make it hidden once more -
My contribution:
The Christian faith is really simple: it centres around Christ/GOD and anything that turns to the inner self and not to Christ is dangerous.
Saw the show on nat. geo and quite disturbed by Elaine Pagels' comments that the gnostic gospels is for advance learning.
Let's pray about the matter. -
Interesting that Elaine Pagels should say that. It must have been forgotten, how advanced the Bible is and modern science is still trying to catch up.Originally posted by laoda99:My contribution:
The Christian faith is really simple: it centres around Christ/GOD and anything that turns to the inner self and not to Christ is dangerous.
Saw the show on nat. geo and quite disturbed by Elaine Pagels' comments that the gnostic gospels is for advance learning.
Let's pray about the matter. -
For those who watched the documentary,
did they interview other academics? pple like Borg and Crossan. -
huh .. what you mean Bible is advanced?Originally posted by klydeer:Interesting that Elaine Pagels should say that. It must have been forgotten, how advanced the Bible is and modern science is still trying to catch up. -
an example will be the "uncountable" number of stars in the universe as described in Gen 22:17 and Jeremiah 33:22. today, scientists admit that they do not exactly know the total number of stars in the universe. there were earthly estimates of 10 (power of 21) which is interestingly, close to 10 (power of 25) - the estimates for the number of grains of sand on earth's seashores (as described in Jeremiah 33:22)Originally posted by Icemoon:huh .. what you mean Bible is advanced?
another would be Job 26:7 - suspension of earth in space.
Leviticus 17:11 - blood circulation helps remove waste material from body cells and as such - key to physical life (as discovered several thousand years later by William Harvey 1616)
many others.
Comment above is based on my faith in the written Words found in the Bible.
Blessings. -
Not convincing.Originally posted by klydeer:an example will be the "uncountable" number of stars in the universe as described in Gen 22:17 and Jeremiah 33:22. today, scientists admit that they do not exactly know the total number of stars in the universe. there were earthly estimates of 10 (power of 21) which is interestingly, close to 10 (power of 25) - the estimates for the number of grains of sand on earth's seashores (as described in Jeremiah 33:22)
On a clear night if you venture outside, there'll be many many stars until you're completely awed by their grandiosity and beauty. Any child can tell you in chinese all the xing1 xing1 shu1 ye2 shu1 bu4 qing1 -
Open mindedness brings new possibilities. In the past when people didn't have phones the truth was that you couldn't hear another person's voice real time unless he was near you. After the phone was invented, the truth is you could if you had a phone. So now the truth is both: you can hear another person's voice and you couldn't.Originally posted by NT2:This is totally rubbish. If A is true, B and C are false.
Truth is absolute and is exclusive. Either A alone is true, B and C are false. Or all 3 are false. You cant have 2 or more contradictions and say all these are absolute truths.
1+1=2, but in binary 1+1=10. -
just couldn't help this... sorry, no offend intented...Originally posted by Cenarious:1+1=2, but in binary 1+1=10.
binary 01+01 = 10 convert back to numeric, binary 10 = 2(power 1) = numeric 2
so 1+ 1 stills = 2.
(on the sideline... I heard someone is trying to prove 1 + 1 = 1 for his PHD papers, that's 10years ago, not sure have he done it) -
Sure the value is still two, but numerically put, it can be said that 1+1=10. You have to convert them from binary to decimal and vice versa to see the change.Originally posted by vince69:just couldn't help this... sorry, no offend intented...
binary 01+01 = 10 convert back to numeric, binary 10 = 2(power 1) = numeric 2
so 1+ 1 stills = 2.
(on the sideline... I heard someone is trying to prove 1 + 1 = 1 for his PHD papers, that's 10years ago, not sure have he done it)
So the question is, how do you know you are looking at both equations in decimal and not one in binary in real life? -
You are missing the point. NT2 was referring to logical truth which is the same yesterday, today or tomorrow or even during Socrates' time when phone was not invented.Originally posted by Cenarious:Open mindedness brings new possibilities. In the past when people didn't have phones the truth was that you couldn't hear another person's voice real time unless he was near you. After the phone was invented, the truth is you could if you had a phone. So now the truth is both: you can hear another person's voice and you couldn't. -
no problem. didnt say want to convince you anyways.Originally posted by Icemoon:Not convincing.
On a clear night if you venture outside, there'll be many many stars until you're completely awed by their grandiosity and beauty. Any child can tell you in chinese all the xing1 xing1 shu1 ye2 shu1 bu4 qing1
u ask me why, i answered my belief to you. that's all. -
If logic can lead one to believe that humans can never fly or even touch the moon, how reliable can logic be? Be flexible.Originally posted by Icemoon:You are missing the point. NT2 was referring to logical truth which is the same yesterday, today or tomorrow or even during Socrates' time when phone was not invented.