Gnosticism
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The post modern mindset is creeping into the society we live in today.Originally posted by nightzip:yup, i agree too...i mean why would anyone want to incorporate contradicting texts into a bible....it's like analogous to teaching maths in pri2, saying that 2x4=8 and then say actually 2x4 is also =10. right?
But, we MUST know that human beings have their individual minds and is always subjective. And human beings do not have perfect knowledge.
So by eliminating these other gospels, actually makes the bible an incomplete text. And because it contradicts the average knowledge does not mean it is wrong too...bare in mind the inquisition, the earth is flat, witchcraft etc.
Another 2 cents?
Subjective truths, compromising beliefs and so on sounds appealing and not a bad idea afterall. It sort of bring peace on earth. You embrace your beliefs, i embrace mine. Homosexuality is acceptable to you, but to me it is abnormal. but let's just stay at that. You are right, i am correct too.
This is totally rubbish. If A is true, B and C are false.
Truth is absolute and is exclusive. Either A alone is true, B and C are false. Or all 3 are false. You cant have 2 or more contradictions and say all these are absolute truths.
Gnosticism calls for Christians to decide for themselves once and for all. They are either Bible-believing, non-gnostics or they are not Christians at all.
There isnt gnostic Christians to begin with. -
Ambitious is your pastor.Originally posted by stellazio:man my pastor was just preaching about this topic today..together with the topic on the da vinci code..hmmm..
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Knowledge is Salvation tends to marginalise people of inferior capabilities.
That's why NT2 does not agree with that statement.
Dun misunderstand his meaning folks. -
nope. thats not my concern.Originally posted by dotaro:Knowledge is Salvation tends to marginalise people of inferior capabilities.
That's why NT2 does not agree with that statement.
Dun misunderstand his meaning folks.
i suscribe to Calvinism
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yup, you are right. But i am actually highlighting on the point that those gospels that surface later, could be due to reasons like percecution from the "norm" christians, or that they could be fleeing from the country etc.Originally posted by NT2:by the way the Canonical Gospels says that Judas committed suicide...how can a dead man write...
Also, their followers could, after reading what the compiled text were, felt that it is NOT exactly correct, and intends to bring to light certain issues which could be distorted by the compilers of the OT or NT.
Anyway, i just felt that the immediate stance by the high echeleons of Christianity to immediately dismiss these gospels are being very narrow-minded.
Well, it could well turn out that the gnostic gospels are THRASH or rubbish, but before that is ascertained, they should at least keep a moderate stance just in case something like the "inquisition" or the "earth is flat" thing comes again....by then the Christians will feel like "what a fool i am".
I mean, dont they learn from the lesson of the "earth is flat"? -
the bible infact mentioned that the earth is round. The people of those days were the ones thinking that the earth is flat.Originally posted by nightzip:yup, you are right. But i am actually highlighting on the point that those gospels that surface later, could be due to reasons like percecution from the "norm" christians, or that they could be fleeing from the country etc.
Also, their followers could, after reading what the compiled text were, felt that it is NOT exactly correct, and intends to bring to light certain issues which could be distorted by the compilers of the OT or NT.
Anyway, i just felt that the immediate stance by the high echeleons of Christianity to immediately dismiss these gospels are being very narrow-minded.
Well, it could well turn out that the gnostic gospels are THRASH or rubbish, but before that is ascertained, they should at least keep a moderate stance just in case something like the "inquisition" or the "earth is flat" thing comes again....by then the Christians will feel like "what a fool i am".
I mean, dont they learn from the lesson of the "earth is flat"?
Open-mindedness is what causes the world to be in mess today. Gnostic gospels that contradict the Bible has no room for open-mindedness. You might as well say that the early church Fathers removed the Diamond Sutra of Buddhism from the OT? -
hmm...if you see it in better sight. Knowledge is salvation actually pushes (spurs) people on to gain more knowledge.Originally posted by dotaro:Knowledge is Salvation tends to marginalise people of inferior capabilities.
That's why NT2 does not agree with that statement.
Dun misunderstand his meaning folks.
Those inferior would be spurred to learn more right.
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I always feel that churches have their own interests to protect, so it very hard to them to be neutral and thus they have to take a side and cast the gnostic gospels aside. I dont think the gnostic gospels are wrong or deviant. They are just different. Could be a different approach to christianity or a different view of christianity.
I know the fundamental idea of christianity is the acceptance that jesus died for the sins of mankind so that we can be saved. But guess what... ppl are always going to want to learn more than just that. Anyway gospels or doctrines, gnostics or not are always going to arouse interest. We are always going to want to learn more about God, about Christ. If these gnostic gospels provide an avenue to that, I'm not going to cast it aside, I want to learn what is written and what I can take home from it. -
Hmmm....heavy handed statement.Originally posted by NT2:the bible infact mentioned that the earth is round. The people of those days were the ones thinking that the earth is flat.
Open-mindedness is what causes the world to be in mess today. Gnostic gospels that contradict the Bible has no room for open-mindedness. You might as well say that the early church Fathers removed the Diamond Sutra of Buddhism from the OT? -
Gnosticism says that it is impossible to know the true God who is hidden and mystical. The so-called Creator God of the Bible is actually a demiurge.Originally posted by leddy:I always feel that churches have their own interests to protect, so it very hard to them to be neutral and thus they have to take a side and cast the gnostic gospels aside. I dont think the gnostic gospels are wrong or deviant. They are just different. Could be a different approach to christianity or a different view of christianity.
I know the fundamental idea of christianity is the acceptance that jesus died for the sins of mankind so that we can be saved. But guess what... ppl are always going to want to learn more than just that. Anyway gospels or doctrines, gnostics or not are always going to arouse interest. We are always going to want to learn more about God, about Christ. If these gnostic gospels provide an avenue to that, I'm not going to cast it aside, I want to learn what is written and what I can take home from it.
Tell me...such knowledge to know God? -
but not the kind of knowlege like the gnosis .. 'cos even the early church authorities cannot fanthom .. hahaOriginally posted by nightzip:Idiots can learn too right? Are you saying that those autistic people cannot learn to take care of themselves?
As long as people learn, sooner or later they could gain knowledge.
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Sunday Times today. page 33Originally posted by M©+square:Hmmm....heavy handed statement.
Bishop John Chew speaks abt the open-mindedness in parts of the world that brings abt alternaitve lifestyles...acceptable to most. But to him is not. -
Yup, i agree too. But to see in philosophically, then how do you know that those in NT are truths and those not inside are not? (This is purely hypothetical and spurs you to think philosophically).Originally posted by NT2:The post modern mindset is creeping into the society we live in today.
Subjective truths, compromising beliefs and so on sounds appealing and not a bad idea afterall. It sort of bring peace on earth. You embrace your beliefs, i embrace mine. Homosexuality is acceptable to you, but to me it is abnormal. but let's just stay at that. You are right, i am correct too.
This is totally rubbish. If A is true, B and C are false.
Truth is absolute and is exclusive. Either A alone is true, B and C are false. Or all 3 are false. You cant have 2 or more contradictions and say all these are absolute truths.
Gnosticism calls for Christians to decide for themselves once and for all. They are either Bible-believing, non-gnostics or they are not Christians at all.
There isnt gnostic Christians to begin with.
It could well turn out that those not in the NT are truths and those inside are not right? Can you prove that whatever is inside the NT are ((complete)) truths?
Oh yah...non truths may not be evil, it just will not bring you to salvation. So, let's again hypothetically say the NT is untruth, so it still makes you a good person, you do not do evil, BUT it will not bring salvation.??? -
i suggest u do a research on the origins of the Christian Bible and its historical evidences.Originally posted by nightzip:Yup, i agree too. But to see in philosophically, then how do you know that those in NT are truths and those not inside are not? (This is purely hypothetical and spurs you to think philosophically).
It could well turn out that those not in the NT are truths and those inside are not right? Can you prove that whatever is inside the NT are ((complete)) truths?
Oh yah...non truths may not be evil, it just will not bring you to salvation. So, let's again hypothetically say the NT is untruth, so it still makes you a good person, you do not do evil, BUT it will not bring salvation.??? -
ok, thank you all for an interesting discussion.
Going to sleep liao, tomorrow got to work.
tata, -
you are right!!Originally posted by nightzip:Yup, i agree too. But to see in philosophically, then how do you know that those in NT are truths and those not inside are not? (This is purely hypothetical and spurs you to think philosophically).
It could well turn out that those not in the NT are truths and those inside are not right? Can you prove that whatever is inside the NT are ((complete)) truths?
Oh yah...non truths may not be evil, it just will not bring you to salvation. So, let's again hypothetically say the NT is untruth, so it still makes you a good person, you do not do evil, BUT it will not bring salvation.???
Being a good person do not bring you salvation. this is from the canonical gospels and epistles.
Salvation is neither through Gnosis or Good works. It is by Grace alone. Through Faith alone. -
nite. Though i have not contributed anything....thanks anywayOriginally posted by nightzip:ok, thank you all for an interesting discussion.
Going to sleep liao, tomorrow got to work.
tata, -
most welcomed.Originally posted by nightzip:ok, thank you all for an interesting discussion.
Going to sleep liao, tomorrow got to work.
tata, -
I am open minded... I'm open minded about gay marriages, I'm open minded about sex b4 marriage, or contraceptive sex... I'm open minded about polygramy. but it does not mean that I approve of them or that I'm okay practicing it.Originally posted by NT2:Sunday Times today. page 33
Bishop John Chew speaks abt the open-mindedness in parts of the world that brings abt alternaitve lifestyles...acceptable to most. But to him is not.
I am just accepting the different ideas and opinions that ppl have and the way they choose to live their lives, but it does mean I have to follow them. if we are not open minded about differences of ppl, the world will be a dull, oppressed, and unfullfiling place to live in.
Open mindedness is about accepting. The world will be an even more chaotic place to live in if we are not openminded. -
AUTISTIC PEOPLE ARE NOT IDIOTS!!Originally posted by nightzip:Idiots can learn too right? Are you saying that those autistic people cannot learn to take care of themselves?
As long as people learn, sooner or later they could gain knowledge. 
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Good for your open mindedness. But i was wondering how can gay marriages, sex b4 marriage & polygamy make this world a better place to live in? Have you considered the many problems & evil that arise bcos of these practices? Hasnt the world become more chaotic bcos of these things happening?Originally posted by leddy:I am open minded... I'm open minded about gay marriages, I'm open minded about sex b4 marriage, or contraceptive sex... I'm open minded about polygramy. but it does not mean that I approve of them or that I'm okay practicing it.
I am just accepting the different ideas and opinions that ppl have and the way they choose to live their lives, but it does mean I have to follow them. if we are not open minded about differences of ppl, the world will be a dull, oppressed, and unfullfiling place to live in.
Open mindedness is about accepting. The world will be an even more chaotic place to live in if we are not openminded.
Take gay relationships for eg. I dont see the point here. Marriage is to have children to me or else don't get married. Might as well cohabit.
Sex b4 marriage has ruined many young girls' lives like unwanted pregnancy, abortion, vd etc. Polygamy ruins families. I have heard of many families broken by two or more relationships. It's the children who suffer. -
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Originally posted by NT2:
the bible infact mentioned that the earth is round. The people of those days were the ones thinking that the earth is flat.
Open-mindedness is what causes the world to be in mess today. Gnostic gospels that contradict the Bible has no room for open-mindedness. You might as well say that the early church Fathers removed the Diamond Sutra of Buddhism from the OT?
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I think NT2 is too quick with his words. It is actually close mindedness that causes the world to be in a mess today. People are closed to the gospel of Jesus Christ, persecuting Christians & beheading some in certain countries. People don't want to listen to the bible. You call that openmindedness?Originally posted by M©+square:Hmmm....heavy handed statement.
Why Christians are labelled close minded when others are closed to the gospel themselves? -
For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
2 Timothy 4:3-4 -
Hmm....Not so Calvinist verse don't you think so?Originally posted by NT2:For the time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.
2 Timothy 4:3-4 -
Pls note,Originally posted by nightzip:Idiots can learn too right? Are you saying that those autistic people cannot learn to take care of themselves?
As long as people learn, sooner or later they could gain knowledge.
autistic people are simply mentally challenged in relating to the world around them, they can learn and be good at what they do also, you may be surprised that some of them may have very high IQ also.
idiots on the other hand are normally refered to those who are simply ignorant and fool hardly.
so, its not fair to put them together.