Gnosticism
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Mr CK even suggested to me he might be a baptized Christian, I think.Originally posted by klydeer:i was saying that i having strange feeling Mr CK does not want to answer CE's question because he does believe in the supernatural.
Now he's not picking on me liao.
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but how to "proof" he is baptized one leh ? observable ? replicable ?Originally posted by Icemoon:Mr CK even suggested to me he might be a baptized Christian, I think.
Now he's not picking on me liao. 
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Now I am beginning to understand why even educated people gamble and join religious organisations. I used to think that they don't really suscribe to the nonsense but join for the fun of it or to become respectable members of society or they like some parts of it but not the other nonsense parts....Originally posted by klydeer: wei....no angry...i got read lar....now i start to wonder how to proof that to you. Oh yes ! ask my eyes !
So a whale to you is a whale because it is observable and replicable independently ya ? hrmm....but killer whales are also called by Mikah indian tribes to be sea wolves - how ar ? which is which ? Believe who ? You are wiser and the indians are delusional ?
Rather, a whale is known to us as a whale because Man name it to be so. Do you as an infant, shout "whale !" when u see one ? So you know that big thing that swims and sprouts water - as "whale" because your teacher says so or you read it from a book ? Based on your empirical judgement - isnt that as delusional ? How would you know its name is really "whale" ? What are your established principles ?
Do you simply believe based on what you see ? Is that your established principle ? Seems to me it is.
Then it is easy. Sign up for a trip to countries / or homes which house people less fortunate with accompanying brothers and sisters in Christ. Witness how they care for the people as their friends and for each other. Witness how they sacrifice their time to care for strangers they do not know. Have a chat with missionaries, why they rather spend their time in a desolate place singing to a group of children who can only afford 1 meal a day.
i also sincerely, invite you to have a talk with me over a home cook meal or a cup of coffee. And when you are more comfortable, chat with some of my pals in a small group setting, attend church together, do ministry together, pray together. Do the things we do. I can show you who is God.
Now, you surely can do it right ? - since that is your established principle for truth even if you do not believe ?
Then you make your post and I realise that even educated people can don 't get it!
I said evidence must conform to established accepted forms and you ask "seeing is believeing issit?"
I said that the evidence for the existence of whales must be replcable and observable independently and you say the whale must be observable and replicable independently...
Whether Indians or Chinese if they claim that there is a creature that is such and such and show evidence that can be independently observed or replicated then so what if it is called whale or sea-wolves?
The problem lies when one side calls it Allah and another side Jehovah and it is suppose to be the same but both sides do not provide the said evidence and yet go to war to claim that each other is right.
That is what happens when you imagine things and then insist that it must be right without even producing any evidence that is observable and replicable.
You take going on a trip with Christians as proof that God exists? Do you want me to go on a trip with Buddhists who sacrifice themselves to care for the less fortunate and these same Buddhists insist that there is no God?
Have a meal with Christians and chit chat and that will prove who God is?
All that will prove is that I had a meal and a chit chat with people who call themselves Christians....
You seem like a nice person... naive and happy in your delusions... I feel bad trying to bring you to your senses. Maybe it is better that you continue to live with your beliefs. Do not try to debate with people like me. Just keep your faith and do whatever it is that you do... after all who am I to tell you what is right when you are happily immersed in your own world?
Yet I fell so bad that you are probably making stupid decisions after stupid decisions based on imagination and delusions... so if you are happy, just continue but if you are not happy, just remember me and try to find out for yourself what constitute "good" and "acceptable" evidence when people come to you and make claims of one kind or another. -
ok ok....u must be very highly educated cos i dont really get what you are trying to say.....Originally posted by casino_king:Now I am beginning to understand why even educated people gamble and join religious organisations. I used to think that they don't really suscribe to the nonsense but join for the fun of it or to become respectable members of society or they like some parts of it but not the other nonsense parts....
Then you make your post and I realise that even educated people can don 't get it!
I said evidence must conform to established accepted forms and you ask "seeing is believeing issit?"
I said that the evidence for the existence of whales must be replcable and observable independently and you say the whale must be observable and replicable independently...
Whether Indians or Chinese if they claim that there is a creature that is such and such and show evidence that can be independently observed or replicated then so what if it is called whale or sea-wolves?
The problem lies when one side calls it Allah and another side Jehovah and it is suppose to be the same but both sides do not provide the said evidence and yet go to war to claim that each other is right.
That is what happens when you imagine things and then insist that it must be right without even producing any evidence that is observable and replicable.
You take going on a trip with Christians as proof that God exists? Do you want me to go on a trip with Buddhists who sacrifice themselves to care for the less fortunate and these same Buddhists insist that there is no God?
Have a meal with Christians and chit chat and that will prove who God is?
All that will prove is that I had a meal and a chit chat with people who call themselves Christians....
You seem like a nice person... naive and happy in your delusions... I feel bad trying to bring you to your senses. Maybe it is better that you continue to live with your beliefs. Do not try to debate with people like me. Just keep your faith and do whatever it is that you do... after all who am I to tell you what is right when you are happily immersed in your own world?
Yet I fell so bad that you are probably making stupid decisions after stupid decisions based on imagination and delusions... so if you are happy, just continue but if you are not happy, just remember me and try to find out for yourself what constitute "good" and "acceptable" evidence when people come to you and make claims of one kind or another.
me low education one. sorlee ar...
One thing you need to try to do is not to put words into other's mouth.
And stop contradicting yourself. cos that isnt healthy and i am quite worried for you.
if you dont even subscribe to what you said earlier - how would you expect others to take you seriously ?
of course i will remember you. Our conversation here is a great witness in itself of things to come and for small group discussion. It only serve to raise an affirmation of God's words.
really. thank you CK !
have a good night sleep !
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Like you said, you don't understand, that is why you think I contracdicted myself. If I was of any help no need for thanks, no problem, any time...Originally posted by klydeer:ok ok....u must be very highly educated cos i dont really get what you are trying to say.....
me low education one. sorlee ar...
One thing you need to try to do is not to put words into other's mouth.
And stop contradicting yourself. cos that isnt healthy and i am quite worried for you.
if you dont even subscribe to what you said earlier - how would you expect others to take you seriously ?
of course i will remember you. Our conversation here is a great witness in itself of things to come and for small group discussion. It only serve to raise an affirmation of God's words.
really. thank you CK !
have a good night sleep ! -
I'll be thankful to casino_king if we win the Buddhist forum next month.
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Is there some sort of competition I do not know about?Originally posted by Icemoon:I'll be thankful to casino_king if we win the Buddhist forum next month. -
there is no competition.Originally posted by casino_king:Is there some sort of competition I do not know about?
but you are already a pawn in the game by the CRO. -
Ya and I thanked him for helping the Buddhist forum 'win' the Christian forum this monthOriginally posted by Icemoon:I'll be thankful to casino_king if we win the Buddhist forum next month. -
so it was him!!Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Ya and I thanked him for helping the Buddhist forum 'win' the Christian forum this month 
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Ya of cosOriginally posted by Icemoon:so it was him!!
What will happen to people who don't believe in Buddhism? [page: 1, 2, 3,... 13, 14, 15]
Replies: 369
Views: 6805
Lets see if this thread can beat that -
Icemoon is angry liao.....Originally posted by Icemoon:so it was him!! -
not really.Originally posted by vince69:Icemoon is angry liao.....
He is an asset to us now.
Let's not kill the goose that lays the golden egg .. haha -
very slyOriginally posted by Icemoon:not really.
He is an asset to us now.
Let's not kill the goose that lays the golden egg .. haha -
not enough, can add some more comments - we are actually still on the topic of Gnosticism....
but i am done.
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Originally posted by casino_king:Just because Discovery channel have some programs about some scepticisms; means you have the license to indulge in delusion? Whatever claims people make, ask youself if there is evidence for it and not simply believe blindly. Read up on the well established and accepted ways to determine whether the claims are true or false...
Just as I thought you'd reply. Christians believe in God - delusional. Scientific folks have program on supernatural activitiy - delusional.....
There is evidence that there is supernatural. Well established and accepted ways are not able to determine why there is supernatural, only that it exists.
..... having said that... thanks, Eternal hope sure beat the Buddhist thread. -
Which part did i say that when people believe in the supernatural it equals delusional?Originally posted by Chin Eng:
Just as I thought you'd reply. Christians believe in God - delusional. Scientific folks have program on supernatural activitiy - delusional.....
There is evidence that there is supernatural. Well established and accepted ways are not able to determine why there is supernatural, only that it exists.
..... having said that... thanks, Eternal hope sure beat the Buddhist thread.
I am simply stating that Christians are delusional because they believe in unsubstantiated claims with no evidence. At least not the kind of evidence that can be accepted. The kind of evidence people give when they make a claim that whales exist. The kind of evidence that is observable by independent 3rd parties and repeatable.
Not the kind of my grandfather said this and my grandfather said that kind of evidence. -
Originally posted by casino_king:
err... if you actually can follow your own train of thought, you say we Christians believe in the supernatural and you claim that we are delusional. Therefore, by extrapolation, people who believe in the supernatural are delusional, because you cannot distinguish one kind of supernatural from another right?
[b]
Which part did i say that when people believe in the supernatural it equals delusional?
I am simply stating that Christians are delusional because they believe in unsubstantiated claims with no evidence. [b]
Actually from reading the various posts here, we have substantiated our claims as to why we believe, its just you who does not accept them. -
Simply put: supernatural CANNOT be substantiated or proven. Supernatural can only be experienced. No one can explain why some things happen. Some people conclude that people experiencing the supernatural is psychotic. Others subscribe to the belief that there is a realm beyond what we see.Originally posted by casino_king:Which part did i say that when people believe in the supernatural it equals delusional?
I am simply stating that Christians are delusional because they believe in unsubstantiated claims with no evidence. At least not the kind of evidence that can be accepted. The kind of evidence people give when they make a claim that whales exist. The kind of evidence that is observable by independent 3rd parties and repeatable.
Not the kind of my grandfather said this and my grandfather said that kind of evidence.
From a totally objective standpoint, people believing in religion (read God) believes in the supernatural. Therefore basing on your first statement, the conclusion is people who believe in the supernatural does not equates being delusional, people who believe in God is also not delusional.
From your reply, it can be concluded that your argument is totally inconsistent. So no need to discuss already lah.... since your entire trend of argument here (as well as in the Buddhist forum) is religion bashing. -
Are you saying that supernatural events can only be believed and that there is no way to produce the evidence for it?Originally posted by breytonhartge:err... if you actually can follow your own train of thought, you say we Christians believe in the supernatural and you claim that we are delusional. Therefore, by extrapolation, people who believe in the supernatural are delusional, because you cannot distinguish one kind of supernatural from another right?
Actually from reading the various posts here, we have substantiated our claims as to why we believe, its just you who does not accept them.
Take it any way you want, when there is no evidence for something I will definitley not accept it.
I will think that people who accept claims without evidence and then go on and say that they have "proven" it for themselves but fail to produce one iota of good evidence that others can verify is delusional.
An example. Prayer works. There was never any evidence that prayer works; at least not the kind that is acceptable and based on internationadl standards.
Then a believer comes along and say: "I have tried it for myself and I can confirm that prayer works."
So you ask him: "How did you come to that conclusion and tell us what experiment you did to verify that prayer works so we can conduct the same experiment to verify your results."
By simple logic we know he cannot because otherwise, it would have become universally accepted that prayer works.
Considering that there is no evidence for the power of prayer and yet people pray day after day... delusional. -
I am suddenly so interested in religion; christian and buddhist and whatever because I realise that gamblers do the same thing.... act without sound evidence.
They tell you stuff like... "you want me to stop, but can you guarantee that I will not win? Can you guarantee that the next time I go to the casino and when I walk out I will not be a winner?"
This is exactly what I face when I talk to religious people. They ask me: "can you guarantee that praying will not help?"
Idiots, gamblers and religious people.
You go by evidence and make decisions based on good evidence not based on speculation and delusions and then ask people to prove that your delusions are not delusions. -
I am not saying anything, just refuting a point you made in your comment. Like CE says, your arguments are totally inconsistent, so no point debating any further...Originally posted by casino_king:Are you saying that supernatural events can only be believed and that there is no way to produce the evidence for it?
Take it any way you want, when there is no evidence for something I will definitley not accept it.
I will think that people who accept claims without evidence and then go on and say that they have "proven" it for themselves but fail to produce one iota of good evidence that others can verify is delusional.
An example. Prayer works. There was never any evidence that prayer works; at least not the kind that is acceptable and based on internationadl standards.
Then a believer comes along and say: "I have tried it for myself and I can confirm that prayer works."
So you ask him: "How did you come to that conclusion and tell us what experiment you did to verify that prayer works so we can conduct the same experiment to verify your results."
By simple logic we know he cannot because otherwise, it would have become universally accepted that prayer works.
Considering that there is no evidence for the power of prayer and yet people pray day after day... delusional.
...opps... icemoon may get upset. -
You have hit the nail on the head! Congratulations!Originally posted by casino_king:You go by evidence and make decisions based on good evidence not based on speculation and delusions and then ask people to prove that your delusions are not delusions.
I believe the evidence that God is real.
My decision to believe is based on this good evidence, not speculation otherwise I would not be so committed.
People have already proven that my delusions are not delusions.
But the point here is not about us. It is about you.
The issues you have to consider are:
1. Do you believe the evidence put before you?
2. If you do believe the evidence put before you, then is it considered good evidence by you?
3. If you say yes to points one and two, then there is no need to prove any delusions or speculations, because it is already good evidence.
However if you do not believe the evidence before you and you still believe, then you are speculating.... so what is the point? -
Like what Tom Cruise in the movie said: "Show me the money."Originally posted by breytonhartge:I am not saying anything, just refuting a point you made in your comment. Like CE says, your arguments are totally inconsistent, so no point debating any further...
...opps... icemoon may get upset.
I say to you: "Show me the evidence."
It is right that you do not debate any further because without the evidence.... it will be pointless. If somehow you can come up with good evidence... nah forget it, after a couple of thousand years and still nothing... I doubt it. -
so why do you still persist? Are you hoping to find something?Originally posted by casino_king:Like what Tom Cruise in the movie said: "Show me the money."
I say to you: "Show me the evidence."
It is right that you do not debate any further because without the evidence.... it will be pointless. If somehow you can come up with good evidence... nah forget it, after a couple of thousand years and still nothing... I doubt it.
Like i said earlier, it is not about us, it is about you.