WHERE IS GOD?
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letting out steam is important.Originally posted by Chin Eng:So, in the first place, why bother to even write?
you'd want a friend to talk to when you're low and down, but they might not solve your problems. -
You be more realistic. Where and when did you read family can come back alive and wealth get restored back beside the bible?Originally posted by askxyz:Be realistic... bye
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Would you juz listen to them, or would you be sarcastic so that the steam cannot even let out but you let in more steam?Originally posted by Icemoon:letting out steam is important.
you'd want a friend to talk to when you're low and down, but they might not solve your problems.
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Originally posted by Icemoon:You be more realistic. Where and when did you read family can come back alive and wealth get restored back beside the bible?
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SO WHAT IF GOD IS GOD? IT ONLY GOES TO SHOW HOW TYRANNICAL HE IS! YES, HE CAN DO ANYTHING INCLUDING KILLING THE GODLESS BUT WHY ISNT HE DOING IT? WHY SOME PEOPLE GET A BETTER DEAL & SOME DONT? WHY SO UNFAIR & UNJUST? YOU SAY HE PUNISHES SIN BUT I SEE GREATER SINNERS THAN ME LIVING TO 80 Y.O HAPPILIY & RICH. WHY GOD SO BIASED CHOOSING TO PUNISH ONLY SOME UNLUCKY ONES & NOT ALL SINNERS?! IN FACT GODLESS PEOPLE ARE LIVING BETTER THAN GOD LOVING PEOPLE!Originally posted by breytonhartge:ICHO,
First and foremost lets get one thing straight. GOD is GOD. He does not or ever will need your permission to do anything. If there is suffering out there, it only serves to amplify the Godless society that we live in today. The suffering out there is caused by man not GOD. We all have free choice and we are all accountable for our actions, also the bible says that the Lord will visit the sin of the fathers to the fourth generation... while we are not responsible for what our ancestors have done, the effects of what they have done will be felt. God does say many times in the bible that the penalty for sin is death and suffering. What part of that did you not understand? We live in a sinful society, so therefore, we will see the punishment for sin. God is not just a God of love, but of justice and righteousness. He cannot stand sin, that is why Yahshua had to die for us, so that when God saw us, He saw the righteousness of Yahshua Hamashia!
What makes you more special than so many people who have gone before you? You most certainly do not have the market on suffering. Whilst GOD does love you, may be He is allowing you to go through trial and tribulation to teach and train you. GOD is not so much concerned with our tranquility than our STABILITY in Him. Sometimes GOD will permit in His wisdom what He could have prevented in His power.
Look at Job, can you honestly say that you have gone through more than Him? God allowed Job to go through all that just because hasatan asked. Have you lost all your family in one go? All your material wealth? All your friends? Even his body was covered in boils and sores.. of the worst kind! Yet even though his wife said to him, curse God and die, Job did not. All he said was "the LORD giveth and the Lord taketh away, blessed be the name of the LORD." And Job also went on to say in chapter 13, "though He slay me, yet I will still praise HIM." Now here is a man of faith in God.
There was recently a story of a man who was rendered a quadraplegic because of an incurable disease to his limbs, they had to amputate all of his limbs to save his life, yet he fought on, he now has learnt to walk with artificial legs and he uses artificial limbs to help him do things. I would say this guy had it pretty hard don't you?
The bible also tells us, God works for the good of those who love Him, but it is HIS way and not our way. I think you just have to BE STILL AND KNOW THAT YAHWEH IS YAHWEH!
YOU YOURSELF MENTIONED JOB. DO U KNOW JOB'S FRIENDS USED SIN TO HIT HIM & HOW GOD REBUKED THOSE FRIENDS INSTEAD OF JOB? SOME SUFFERINGS ARE NOT CAUSED BY SIN. MAY GOD NOT REBUKE YOU!
OF COURSE I DONT HAVE THE MARKET ON SUFFERING BUT DO YOU HAVE THE MARKET ON GOD? YOU DONT ALSO! DO YOU REPRESENT GOD? YOU DONT.
I FIND IT POINTLESS FOR THE MAN TO BECOME QUADRIPLEGIC. HE COULD HAVE BEEN A BETTER MAN WITH GOOD LIMBS. THIS GUY HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO FIGHT. HOW DO YOU KNOW I AM NOT FIGHTING? HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT I DONT HAVE A GREAT SUFFERING ALSO? HOW CAN YOU COMPARE SUFFERING? DOES LOSING 4 LIMBS = GREATER SUFFERING? -
YEAH EASY FOR YOU TO SAY AS YOU ARE NOT THE CLAY HE IS MOULDING NOW WITH GREAT PAIN!Originally posted by askxyz:If you can see what God is doing, you are equivalent to God? If you can understand what God is doing, are you as holy and as righteous as God? Can the clay know what the potter is thinking? Can the clay understand what the potter is trying to do?
I think you should read the book "Disappointment with God" by Philip Yancey. -
OK SO THIS IS ONE WAY GOD OR THE CHURCH SEEKS TO DESTROY ALL OPPOSITION. HUMBLE MYSELF & OBEY OR GOD FRIES ME TO BITS & PIECES & CHARCOAL!Originally posted by breytonhartge:ICOH,
In Proverbs 9:10, it says,"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And knowledge of the Holy One is understanding."
Meditate on this.
Also go and read the book of Job chapters 38 to the end.
God has this to say of man:
Job 38:2, "Who is this who darkens counsel by words without knowledge?"
Were you there when God laid the foundations of the earth? Were you there when He determined its measurements? Of when God made the seas, the clouds and the skies? Have you commanded the morning since your days began and caused the dawn to know its place? Have you comprehended the breath of the earth or searched its depts? have the gates of death been revealed to you? Were you there when God set the stars in their courses, when He directs the path of a lightning bolt or sends the rains upon the earth? Can you control all of this? Does the Hawk fly by your wisdom? or the Eagle by your command?
In chapter 40 of the book of Job,
God said this to Job:
"Shall the one who contends with the Almighty correct Him? He who rebukes God, let him answer it"
God also said to Job:
"Would you annul my judgment? Would you condemn Me that you may be justified? Have you an arm like God? Or can you thunder with a voice like His? Then adorn yourself with majesty and splendor, And array yourself with glory and beauty. Disperse the rage of your warth; Look on everyone who is proud, and humble him. Look on everyone who is proud and bring him low; Tread down the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together, Bind their faces in hidden drakness. Then I will also confess to you That your own right hand can save you."
In the end, all Job had to say was that "I know You can do everything, and no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You... Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know....I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, But now my eye sees You. Therefore I abhor myself, And repent in dust and ashes."
This is what God had to say of Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar:
"My wrath is aroused against your and your two friends for you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has.... My servant Job shall pray for you. For I will accept him, lest I deal with you according to you folly; because you have not speken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has."
Becareful what you say about God lest his wrath is aroused against you. Humble yourself before the ALMIGHTY God and be meek in His presence! -
NOT UNJUST MEH THEN WHAT IS IT? SOME GET MERCY & COMPASSION WHILE OTHER SUFFER LIKE HELL & GET HELL!Originally posted by askxyz:What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. (Romans 9:14-16)
To ICOH: PLEASE read Romans chapter 9. -
WHY NOT YOU GO THRU IT & SEE WHETHER YOU WILL STILL SAY THE SAME THING?Originally posted by breytonhartge:Then you go through it.
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I wouldn't have understood what you are going through now becos I'm not the one going through it. Perhaps if you tell us what you are going through right now, those who have gone through the same thing can help you out.Originally posted by ICanOnlyHope:YEAH EASY FOR YOU TO SAY AS YOU ARE NOT THE CLAY HE IS MOULDING NOW WITH GREAT PAIN!
What else can I do for you? Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn? -
WHY NOT YOU ALSO GO THRU IT FIRST & SEE WHETHER YOU WILL CURSE GOD OR LOVE GOD?Originally posted by askxyz:Yeah... icemoon should go through it first, then talk big...
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HE's in youOriginally posted by ICanOnlyHope:CAN ANYONE TELL ME WHERE IS GOD? I KNOW THERE'S A GOD BCOS I BELIEVE IN ONE BUT WHERE IS HE? ATHEISTS & AGNOSTICS NEED NOT ANSWER. AAAARRRRGGGHHH! 
u dont trust in him be HE trusts you -
NEITHER ARE YOU!Originally posted by askxyz:Who are you? Are you God? -
ARGH I DON'T KNOW! IS IT THAT IT IS GOD IS NOT THERE OR IS IT THAT I NEVER BOTHERED TO LISTEN TO HIM, MORE WILLING TO LISTEN AND WANTING TO SEE ONLY WHAT I WANT TO SEE OF HIM? AND ALSO BECAUSE I LOVE TO IRRATING OTHER PEOPLE MORE THEN ASKING SERIOUS QUESTIONS? ARGHHHH! I DUNNO!!!!
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1. God is not tyrannical. You just have no clue about God.Originally posted by ICanOnlyHope:SO WHAT IF GOD IS GOD? IT ONLY GOES TO SHOW HOW TYRANNICAL HE IS! YES, HE CAN DO ANYTHING INCLUDING KILLING THE GODLESS BUT WHY ISNT HE DOING IT? WHY SOME PEOPLE GET A BETTER DEAL & SOME DONT? WHY SO UNFAIR & UNJUST? YOU SAY HE PUNISHES SIN BUT I SEE GREATER SINNERS THAN ME LIVING TO 80 Y.O HAPPILIY & RICH. WHY GOD SO BIASED CHOOSING TO PUNISH ONLY SOME UNLUCKY ONES & NOT ALL SINNERS?! IN FACT GODLESS PEOPLE ARE LIVING BETTER THAN GOD LOVING PEOPLE!
YOU YOURSELF MENTIONED JOB. DO U KNOW JOB'S FRIENDS USED SIN TO HIT HIM & HOW GOD REBUKED THOSE FRIENDS INSTEAD OF JOB? SOME SUFFERINGS ARE NOT CAUSED BY SIN. MAY GOD NOT REBUKE YOU!
OF COURSE I DONT HAVE THE MARKET ON SUFFERING BUT DO YOU HAVE THE MARKET ON GOD? YOU DONT ALSO! DO YOU REPRESENT GOD? YOU DONT.
I FIND IT POINTLESS FOR THE MAN TO BECOME QUADRIPLEGIC. HE COULD HAVE BEEN A BETTER MAN WITH GOOD LIMBS. THIS GUY HAD NO CHOICE BUT TO FIGHT. HOW DO YOU KNOW I AM NOT FIGHTING? HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT I DONT HAVE A GREAT SUFFERING ALSO? HOW CAN YOU COMPARE SUFFERING? DOES LOSING 4 LIMBS = GREATER SUFFERING?
2. How and who and why God chooses to deal with you is between you and Him. There may be greater sinners than you out there, but then when we look, we can always find someone worse off than we are in terms of sin. The important point here is God is dealing with you NOW. He may or may not deal with the other "sinners", but He is dealing with you. Whether you let Him or not, is up to you.
3. It may seem that the Godless people have it better, but we as believers have a far better hope. Not that I say that I have a bad life, I have a blessed life which includes all the trials that I have had to go through. I think you have to learn to be content where you are in life, like the apostle Paul who said that he has learned to be content whether he abounds or is abaised. Sure the godless prosper, but you know what? In Proverbs 13, it says, "but the wealth of the sinner is stored up for the righteous."
4. Yes some suffering is not caused by sin, but by our own stupid mistakes and arrogance!
5. You miss the point about the quadraplegic, the moral of the story is not about him losing his limbs, it is about HIS ATTITUDE TO LIFE! Currently, yours sucks. You are one of those chicken littles that run around all day and say the sky is falling... the point is many of us go through trials and suffering, none of us are exempt. How you treat each trial and suffering determines whether you move on in life and grow stronger or you get stuck going round the same mountain again and again because you refuse to learn the lesson that God wants to teach you. Stop being so me focused and go help someone else, this may give you a differnt focus. -
OF COURSE YOU ARE A SINGAPORE TYRANNOSAURUS! YOU WILL GO ABOUT ROARING & DEVOURING PREY INSTEAD OF LISTENING TO GOD.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:ARGH I DON'T KNOW! IS IT THAT IT IS GOD IS NOT THERE OR IS IT THAT I NEVER BOTHERED TO LISTEN TO HIM, MORE WILLING TO LISTEN AND WANTING TO SEE ONLY WHAT I WANT TO SEE OF HIM? AND ALSO BECAUSE I LOVE TO IRRATING OTHER PEOPLE MORE THEN ASKING SERIOUS QUESTIONS? ARGHHHH! I DUNNO!!!! -
Honestly, I would not know. I would want to love God but I would not know if I have the faith and strength not to curse if I go through all these.Originally posted by ICanOnlyHope:WHY NOT YOU ALSO GO THRU IT FIRST & SEE WHETHER YOU WILL CURSE GOD OR LOVE GOD?
I understand why you are so mad with God cos you want to know the meaning to all these sufferings. But despair is suffering without meaning. Like your nick says, I can only hope. Hope means simply the belief that something good lies ahead. So it is a "hope" not a guarantee that you will escape any pain and sufferings. Realistic hope permits a suffering person to confront reality, but that hope also gives sthregth to go on living. Eventually, everyone dies. We share a common destiny: death!
Faith in God may not get you our of suffering but it is enough to see you through each day. -
Of course I am not.Originally posted by ICanOnlyHope:NEITHER ARE YOU! -
well said!Originally posted by askxyz:Honestly, I would not know. I would want to love God but I would not know if I have the faith and strength not to curse if I go through all these.
I understand why you are so mad with God cos I want to know the meaning to all these sufferings. But despair is suffering without meaning. Like your nick says, I can only hope. Hope means simply the belief that something good lies ahead. So it is a "hope" not a guarantee that you will escape any pain and sufferings. Realistic hope permits a suffering person to confront reality, but that hope also gives sthregth to go on living.
Faith in God may not get you our of suffering but it is enough to see you through each day. -
Icemoon,Originally posted by Icemoon:letting out steam is important.
you'd want a friend to talk to when you're low and down, but they might not solve your problems.
for once, I agree with you, so lets all refrain from fighting/challenging with each other and let ICOH talk.
God bless. -
I seriously hope/pray that none of us will need to go thorugh these.Originally posted by Icemoon:You go through the scenario I described then you say I talk big.
Note that:
1. Your family will be massacred (machiam like Huo Yuanjia).
2. Your unborn baby will be killed together with the mother (the latter also raped)
3. Your children will be stabbed.
4. Your wealth will be stripped overnight (machiam like those ancient chinese drama where you can be demoted from prince to prisoner just from one imperial edict)
5. No one will talk to you, for fear of incurring the emperor's wrath. Or rather, no one can reach you 'cos you are living in a 4x3 prison cell with no windows everyday.
6. They happy happy put you through the 10 chinese torture methods.
7. The dead cannot be revived.
Oh, maybe they pull out your tongue so you can't even curse the emperor or god.
God bless -
there is a reason why the threadstarter said "ATHEISTS & AGNOSTICS NEED NOT ANSWER".Originally posted by ICanOnlyHope:SIGH. IF GOD IS IN MY HEART, THEN IT SEEMS POINTLESS TO ASK FOR HELP SINCE HE IS JUST THERE LIMITED TO MY HEART & IMAGINATION. I CAN PSYCHO MYSELF PERHAPS OR DELUDE MYSELF MAYBE. THAT'S ALL I CAN DO WITH A GOD IN MY HEART. I CAN ONLY CHANGE MYSELF & NOT MY CIRCUMSTANCES OR OTHER PEOPLE. EVEN IF I AM SUFFERING GREATLY NOW, I HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO GO THRU. IF THERE ARE DIFFERENT GODS, THEN GOD IS FALSE OR GOD IS JUST A FIGMENT OF IMAGINATION & WILDEST DREAMS TO KEEP ONE GOING BCOS THERE JUST CAN'T BE SO MANY GODS IN THE FIRST PLACE.
LOVE & FREEDOM MEAN DIFFERENT THINGS TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE. I AM JUST WONDERING IS GOD MEANING DIFF THINGS TO DIFF PEOPLE? IF SO, THEN HE MUST BE A VERY INCONSISTENT GOD. HE COULD JUST BE A PROJECTION OF WHAT WE WANT OR WHO WE THINK IS GOD. SO HE IS JUST MADE UP TO SATISFY WHAT WE CAN'T UNDERSTAND.
also, what's ur point? that there is or isn't a god?
perception is one of the knower's way of knowing. EVERYTHING has a unique meaning to each person. love, freedom, god, table, tv, car, be it the tangible or the intangible, everyone ascribes different meanings to everything. even with something as simple as a pen, a person who receives it on his/her birthday would perceive it differently from a person who buys it. what is inconsistent here is OUR perception of god. it is not god who is inconsistent.
i said different people believe in different gods; i didn't say there are different gods. more inclined towards the teachings of christianity myself (though still an atheist), i believe that there is only ONE god, and that all other so-called gods are made up by humans. however, to a buddhist or a hindu, they believe that there are more than one god. which is right? there is no definite right or wrong. to a christian, their one and only god is real. to a buddist/other religions, their gods are the real ones. to an atheist, both are right or wrong.
of course, you can be skeptical and say there is no god. who can't be skeptical? but skepticism can bring u no where in an academical inquiry. u can deny this, that, everything. u are not wrong. but where does skepticism lead us to?
nowhere. -
ooops. sorry i didn't realise u are the threadstarter, though i did notice the capitalised text. blonde moments lol.. xP
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I think ICOH bluff one. His CAPS ARE MAKING ME IRRITATED.
If he is sincere, please use the screen keyboard to type his replies. Come on, if he can login using screen keyboard, why not do that for replies. -
Sounds heck lot like JTB, but then, JTB could well be another person's cloneOriginally posted by Icemoon:I think ICOH bluff one. His CAPS ARE MAKING ME IRRITATED.
If he is sincere, please use the screen keyboard to type his replies. Come on, if he can login using screen keyboard, why not do that for replies.
It seems very funny, there are two groups of christians i have always met
One group (most of the time) are calm and could just talk to you about god as if its the most natural thing in the world
The second group, i first saw it during my stint in ACJC, were tad overzealous to the point of madness, that you dont know its god they are passionate about or its just plain madness
But, I know somebody gonna come up and say its allright..right?