WHERE IS GOD?
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I DONT BLAME YOU ALL FOR NO ANSWERS BCOS REALLY NO ANSWERS FROM GOD SINCE HE IS SO MYSTERIOUS. WHY DID GOD LET YOU HAVE THE INCURABLE DISEASE IN THE FIRST PLACE?Originally posted by Chin Eng:Realistically, the folks at 9/11, Bali, or even Banda Aceh has nothing to do with whatever you are going through.....
In the first place, apparently no one here at Eternal Hope knows what you are going through, or what kind of "suffering" you're undergoing.
So any respond to all questions will only be stock answers. Unless you can specifically talked about what your problem is, there is very little advice or answers anyone can give.
Suffering? It all depends on what you'd consider suffering. Myself and at least one other regular EH regular is suffering from some kind of incurable disease. Note that I use the word "incurable" and not fatal. Is that suffering.... well, if I don't take care of my health, I'd die.
Unless you can share (even through Private Messages) no one can help you, and all your frustrated banging on your caps locked keyboard isn't going to do you any good.... and for that matter, neither is waking up at 5 am (which really is no big deal, I walk up at 5.40 am every morning).....
I FEEL A CLOSE AFFINITY WITH THOSE AT 9/11, BALI ETC, BCOS NEEDLESS SUFFERINGS & SENSELESS VIOLENCE & CARNAGE & DEATHS! SO MANY THINGS ARE STUPID & SENSELESS. HAS GOD GONE MAD OR SENSELESS? PEOPLE HAVE DIED & GONE TO HELL UNLESS GOD RENEGES ON HIS VERY WORDS! -
HOW CAN PEOPLE DON'T BELIEVE WHEN IT'S TRUTH IN THE FACE? YOU MEAN THEY GONE NUTS OR WHAT? THEY CHOOSE TO GO TO HELL OR WHAT? THEY NOT AFRAID OF HELL?Originally posted by dumbdumb!:christ is real, and there are many ppl who believe. =)
but there are many ppl who choose not to believe. there's a difference.
not believing because it is untrue, and choosing not to believe despite the truth in the face
I DON'T CARE HOW MANY BELIEVE BCOS NOT ALL BELIEVE. & IF REALITY DEPENDS ON BELIEF, THEN IT'S NOT REALITY. IT'S JUST AN ILLUSION OR PSYCHOLOGICAL DELUSION. -
where is god? god is in ur heart. ever wondered why different people believing in different gods? because god can't be seen. it is ur belief. he is in ur heart. can u see love? can u see freedom? similarly, god is something that u can't see but will always be there, no matter if u believe in him or not.
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SIGH. IF GOD IS IN MY HEART, THEN IT SEEMS POINTLESS TO ASK FOR HELP SINCE HE IS JUST THERE LIMITED TO MY HEART & IMAGINATION. I CAN PSYCHO MYSELF PERHAPS OR DELUDE MYSELF MAYBE. THAT'S ALL I CAN DO WITH A GOD IN MY HEART. I CAN ONLY CHANGE MYSELF & NOT MY CIRCUMSTANCES OR OTHER PEOPLE. EVEN IF I AM SUFFERING GREATLY NOW, I HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO GO THRU. IF THERE ARE DIFFERENT GODS, THEN GOD IS FALSE OR GOD IS JUST A FIGMENT OF IMAGINATION & WILDEST DREAMS TO KEEP ONE GOING BCOS THERE JUST CAN'T BE SO MANY GODS IN THE FIRST PLACE.Originally posted by jenn_y:where is god? god is in ur heart. ever wondered why different people believing in different gods? because god can't be seen. it is ur belief. he is in ur heart. can u see love? can u see freedom? similarly, god is something that u can't see but will always be there, no matter if u believe in him or not.
LOVE & FREEDOM MEAN DIFFERENT THINGS TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE. I AM JUST WONDERING IS GOD MEANING DIFF THINGS TO DIFF PEOPLE? IF SO, THEN HE MUST BE A VERY INCONSISTENT GOD. HE COULD JUST BE A PROJECTION OF WHAT WE WANT OR WHO WE THINK IS GOD. SO HE IS JUST MADE UP TO SATISFY WHAT WE CAN'T UNDERSTAND. -
No lah. Ok you just tell us one thing: WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM GOD? Just say out.
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ICHO,
First and foremost lets get one thing straight. GOD is GOD. He does not or ever will need your permission to do anything. If there is suffering out there, it only serves to amplify the Godless society that we live in today. The suffering out there is caused by man not GOD. We all have free choice and we are all accountable for our actions, also the bible says that the Lord will visit the sin of the fathers to the fourth generation... while we are not responsible for what our ancestors have done, the effects of what they have done will be felt. God does say many times in the bible that the penalty for sin is death and suffering. What part of that did you not understand? We live in a sinful society, so therefore, we will see the punishment for sin. God is not just a God of love, but of justice and righteousness. He cannot stand sin, that is why Yahshua had to die for us, so that when God saw us, He saw the righteousness of Yahshua Hamashia!
What makes you more special than so many people who have gone before you? You most certainly do not have the market on suffering. Whilst GOD does love you, may be He is allowing you to go through trial and tribulation to teach and train you. GOD is not so much concerned with our tranquility than our STABILITY in Him. Sometimes GOD will permit in His wisdom what He could have prevented in His power.
Look at Job, can you honestly say that you have gone through more than Him? God allowed Job to go through all that just because hasatan asked. Have you lost all your family in one go? All your material wealth? All your friends? Even his body was covered in boils and sores.. of the worst kind! Yet even though his wife said to him, curse God and die, Job did not. All he said was "the LORD giveth and the Lord taketh away, blessed be the name of the LORD." And Job also went on to say in chapter 13, "though He slay me, yet I will still praise HIM." Now here is a man of faith in God.
There was recently a story of a man who was rendered a quadraplegic because of an incurable disease to his limbs, they had to amputate all of his limbs to save his life, yet he fought on, he now has learnt to walk with artificial legs and he uses artificial limbs to help him do things. I would say this guy had it pretty hard don't you?
The bible also tells us, God works for the good of those who love Him, but it is HIS way and not our way. I think you just have to BE STILL AND KNOW THAT YAHWEH IS YAHWEH! -
....a classic case of self-pity..... nothing anyone else can do or say.....
and after all the postulating... there is still not a single hint as to what suffering he's going through.... which I am very sure has nothing to do with 9/11 or Bali.... which incidentally had recovered from whatever ordeal that had taken place. -
If you can see what God is doing, you are equivalent to God? If you can understand what God is doing, are you as holy and as righteous as God? Can the clay know what the potter is thinking? Can the clay understand what the potter is trying to do?Originally posted by ICanOnlyHope:SO WHEN WE CANNOT ANSWER CERTAIN THINGS, WE ATTRIBUTE IT ALL TO GOD'S MYSTERY & GOOD PLAN FOR US. THIS IS AVOIDING THE ISSUE & IT SEEMS THAT GOD IS NOT BEING FORTHRIGHT ABT IT. IS GOD REAL THEN? IS THAT WHY SOME PEOPLE BELIEVE IN GOD BCOS WE CAN ATTRIBUTE ALL UNKNOWN THINGS TO HIM?
DO YOU KNOW WHY I BELIEVE IN A GOD? BCOS SO MANY THINGS CANT EXPLAIN. SO MANY SUFFERINGS CANT HEAL. SO MANY DEAD PEOPLE CANNOT BE BROUGHT BACK TO LIFE. SO MANY PAIN CANNOT BE TAKEN AWAY. SO MANY BAD MEMORIES CANNOT BE ERASED. THAT'S WHY BELIEVE IN GOD. EVERYTHING CANNOT EXPLAIN EITHER TRUST GOD OR BLAME GOD. WHAT ELSE CAN ONE DO?
WHEN SOME THINGS ARE BEYOND MY CONTROL, SOME PAIN WHICH ALWAYS BUG ME, HEALTH PROBLEMS THAT I CANNOT SOLVE ETC ETC, WHERE TO TURN BUT GOD? WHO TO BLAME BUT GOD? PEOPLE LIVE IN DELUSION BCOS THEY HAVE NOWHERE TO TURN ANYWAY SO THEY BELIEVE IN CHRIST OR GOD.
I DONT SEE THE MANY GOOD COMING OUT OF ALL THE PEOPLE DYING IN AFRICA & ELSEWHERE. I DONT SEE THE MANY GOOD COMING FROM THE NEEDLESS SUFFERING OF THE POOR OTHER THAN TO SATISFY THE EGO OF THE RICH BY ALLOWING THEM TO DONATE & HEREBYE "CLEANSE" THEIR CONSCIENCE. I DONT SEE THE MANY GOOD THINGS COMING OUT OF UNFAIRNESS & INJUSTICE. I DONT SEE THE MANY GOOD COMING OUT OF OPPRESSIVE GOVTS & REGIMES. PEOPLE JUST TRY TO EASE THEIR SUFFERING BY BELIEVING IN A GOD OR CHRIST WHICH ALLOW THEM TO LIVE EASIER UNDER THESE TRYING CIRCUMSTANCES, THINKING THAT THERE IS AN ETERNAL LIFE SOMEWHERE IN HEAVEN WHERE THEY WILL ENJOY LATER SINCE THEY CAN'T ENJOY THEIR LIVES NOW. THIS GIVES THEM HOPE BUT THIS DOES NOTHING TO CHANGE WHAT IS BOTHERING THEM OR TORTURING THEM. THEY JUST LOOK FWD TO THE TIME WHEN THEY DIE TO BE FREE IN HEAVEN. HOW PITIFUL & USELESS & SAD!
I think you should read the book "Disappointment with God" by Philip Yancey. -
ICOH,
In Proverbs 9:10, it says,"The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom, And knowledge of the Holy One is understanding."
Meditate on this.
Also go and read the book of Job chapters 38 to the end.
God has this to say of man:
Job 38:2, "Who is this who darkens counsel by words without knowledge?"
Were you there when God laid the foundations of the earth? Were you there when He determined its measurements? Of when God made the seas, the clouds and the skies? Have you commanded the morning since your days began and caused the dawn to know its place? Have you comprehended the breath of the earth or searched its depts? have the gates of death been revealed to you? Were you there when God set the stars in their courses, when He directs the path of a lightning bolt or sends the rains upon the earth? Can you control all of this? Does the Hawk fly by your wisdom? or the Eagle by your command?
In chapter 40 of the book of Job,
God said this to Job:
"Shall the one who contends with the Almighty correct Him? He who rebukes God, let him answer it"
God also said to Job:
"Would you annul my judgment? Would you condemn Me that you may be justified? Have you an arm like God? Or can you thunder with a voice like His? Then adorn yourself with majesty and splendor, And array yourself with glory and beauty. Disperse the rage of your warth; Look on everyone who is proud, and humble him. Look on everyone who is proud and bring him low; Tread down the wicked in their place. Hide them in the dust together, Bind their faces in hidden drakness. Then I will also confess to you That your own right hand can save you."
In the end, all Job had to say was that "I know You can do everything, and no purpose of Yours can be withheld from You... Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know....I have heard of You by the hearing of the ear, But now my eye sees You. Therefore I abhor myself, And repent in dust and ashes."
This is what God had to say of Eliphaz, Bildad and Zophar:
"My wrath is aroused against your and your two friends for you have not spoken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has.... My servant Job shall pray for you. For I will accept him, lest I deal with you according to you folly; because you have not speken of Me what is right, as My servant Job has."
Becareful what you say about God lest his wrath is aroused against you. Humble yourself before the ALMIGHTY God and be meek in His presence! -
Come to think of it, what Job went through was no big deal, really.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Look at Job, can you honestly say that you have gone through more than Him? God allowed Job to go through all that just because hasatan asked. Have you lost all your family in one go? All your material wealth? All your friends? Even his body was covered in boils and sores.. of the worst kind! Yet even though his wife said to him, curse God and die, Job did not. All he said was "the LORD giveth and the Lord taketh away, blessed be the name of the LORD." And Job also went on to say in chapter 13, "though He slay me, yet I will still praise HIM." Now here is a man of faith in God.
During war and natural disasters, people also lost their home and family. You get stripped of your wealth overnight, get hauled to prison and tortured 24/7. At least Job had his friends to talk to, those people had to face their interrogators everyday, in addition to living in a small, dark prison cell. Your wife and children either got raped or stabbed to death. I'm not surprised some of these people were Christians.
Whereas God returned Job his fortune and family in the end, those poor people in history never. So who is worse?
By the way, Job didn't lose his friends 'cos they still talked to him.
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I think he should read Jonanthan Edwards "Sinners in the hands on an angry God".Originally posted by askxyz:If you can see what God is doing, you are equivalent to God? If you can understand what God is doing, are you as holy and as righteous as God? Can the clay know what the potter is thinking? Can the clay understand what the potter is trying to do?
I think you should read the book "Disappointment with God" by Philip Yancey.
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What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. (Romans 9:14-16)
To ICOH: PLEASE read Romans chapter 9. -
Then you go through it.Originally posted by Icemoon:Come to think of it, what Job went through was no big deal, really.
During war and natural disasters, people also lost their home and family. You get stripped of your wealth overnight, get hauled to prison and tortured 24/7. At least Job had his friends to talk to, those people had to face their interrogators everyday, in addition to living in a small, dark prison cell. Your wife and children either got raped or stabbed to death. I'm not surprised some of these people were Christians.
Whereas God returned Job his fortune and family in the end, those poor people in history never. So who is worse?
By the way, Job didn't lose his friends 'cos they still talked to him. 
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Amen!Originally posted by askxyz:What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! For he says to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. (Romans 9:14-16)
To ICOH: PLEASE read Romans chapter 9. -
Yeah... icemoon should go through it first, then talk big...Originally posted by breytonhartge:Then you go through it. 
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Ok. Then I counter-challenge you to go through the scenario I described .. with knowledge that the dead cannot be revived.Originally posted by breytonhartge:Then you go through it. 
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You go through the scenario I described then you say I talk big.Originally posted by askxyz:Yeah... icemoon should go through it first, then talk big...
Note that:
1. Your family will be massacred (machiam like Huo Yuanjia).
2. Your unborn baby will be killed together with the mother (the latter also raped)
3. Your children will be stabbed.
4. Your wealth will be stripped overnight (machiam like those ancient chinese drama where you can be demoted from prince to prisoner just from one imperial edict)
5. No one will talk to you, for fear of incurring the emperor's wrath. Or rather, no one can reach you 'cos you are living in a 4x3 prison cell with no windows everyday.
6. They happy happy put you through the 10 chinese torture methods.
7. The dead cannot be revived.
Oh, maybe they pull out your tongue so you can't even curse the emperor or god. -
SO MANY THINGS I WANT FROM GOD & NOT ONE IS FULFILLED. EVEN IF I TELL YOU ALL, WOULD IT HELP? EVEN IF I SAY OUT, WOULD IT HELP?Originally posted by gasband:No lah. Ok you just tell us one thing: WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM GOD? Just say out. -
Who are you? Are you God?Originally posted by Icemoon:You go through the scenario I described then you say I talk big.
Note that:
1. Your family will be massacred (machiam like Huo Yuanjia).
2. Your unborn baby will be killed together with the mother (the latter also raped)
3. Your children will be stabbed.
4. Your wealth will be stripped overnight (machiam like those ancient chinese drama where you can be demoted from prince to prisoner just from one imperial edict)
5. No one will talk to you, for fear of incurring the emperor's wrath. Or rather, no one can reach you 'cos you are living in a 4x3 prison cell with no windows everyday.
6. They happy happy put you through the 10 chinese torture methods.
7. The dead cannot be revived.
Oh, maybe they pull out your tongue so you can't even curse the emperor or god. -
Even if you wrote with caps on, does it help? Even if you come here to argue with us, does it help? I believe you only want to hear the answer you want to hear.Originally posted by ICanOnlyHope:SO MANY THINGS I WANT FROM GOD & NOT ONE IS FULFILLED. EVEN IF I TELL YOU ALL, WOULD IT HELP? EVEN IF I SAY OUT, WOULD IT HELP? -
No need God.Originally posted by askxyz:Who are you? Are you God?
An emperor issuing an imperial edict can do the same things. -
Come on.. In Singapore, there is no emperor. Mr president.Originally posted by Icemoon:No need God.
An emperor issuing an imperial edict can do the same things. -
So, in the first place, why bother to even write?Originally posted by ICanOnlyHope:SO MANY THINGS I WANT FROM GOD & NOT ONE IS FULFILLED. EVEN IF I TELL YOU ALL, WOULD IT HELP? EVEN IF I SAY OUT, WOULD IT HELP? -
Why restrict yourself to Singapore? Is Singapore the whole world?Originally posted by askxyz:Come on.. In Singapore, there is no emperor. Mr president.
I think Saddam Hussein last time could also do the same things .. haha -
Be realistic... byeOriginally posted by Icemoon:Why restrict yourself to Singapore? Is Singapore the whole world?
I think Saddam Hussein last time could also do the same things .. haha