Is smoking a sin?
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well, we do not deny that the Church has committed many sins.Originally posted by Raptured:The catholic church has been guilty of a lot of crimes against humanity & true bible believing Christians. I think you don't know the background or true story. -
The Church is infallible but unfortunately her servants are not.
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The devil cannot take lives and preserve them. That doesnt point a finger to say that: "Oh ! God did it !" Dont forget, men themselves have power over their own lives and they are just as capable to either want to take good care or destroy. If a person commit suicide - do we say that it is God who cause it ?Originally posted by Raptured:So you mean it's God who takes lives & gives disease? Then why pray against the disease? Then why are the charismatics & other Christians praying against the devil when they get serious diseases? Can i say satan has no power over the lives of Christians but has some power over the lives of non believers instead?
What you are asking is perhaps if God can take lives and give disease - the simple answer is YES. Just look at the Bible - so many instances. But other than that - what then ? You might wish to also study the Bible and see why God did what He did. In much more instances, God seeks to preserve what He created.
Praying against a disease - nothing wrong with that - on the basis of mercy from God and intercession from fellow Christian friends.
Praying against the devil - again nothing wrong - on the basis that you will not fall into its lies and against temptations put forth by it.
For me, i prefer to pray in the will of God, not mine. i might not know at that point in time, what is the will of God for a particular issue. But i pray that i am able to obey - whatever is to come. And in a very personal manner, that is my faith.
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What kind of power are you thinking about over the lives of pre-believers?Originally posted by Raptured:Good. The Holy Spirit has been speaking to you. Thank God. I feel honoured. Hehehe...
Well, but i heard a lot of preachers say that the devil has power over the lives of non believers. Is that correct bcos they are children of wrath or sinners without the saving blood of Christ?
More often than not, it is men who is causing all the trouble and try to push the blame on supernatural beings (or even things that dont exist). And well, i believe that is also one of the lies the devil used - so that repentence is away from the heart and men are left wondering about forgiveness and humility. Worse, the sinning continues.
For example - a man divorced his wife due to meeting of another woman. He says it is the devil who brought this woman to him, none of his fault. Well, he can always reject advances right ? But you might ask - How? Where to find strength ?
Answer: Turn your eyes upon Jesus. All things fade and dim. -
The devil is not just a liar. He is also called the destroyer, tempter, accuser, enemy etc.Originally posted by vince69:Let me speak from a christmastics who had went through both deliverance services as well as training to in deliverance (all these are in the past now). This is one area that I feel is debatable.
Jesus promised that God will send the Holy Spirit to the believers, and the Holy Spirit will reside in the believers as comforter and consellor. God also says that he will never leave you nor forsake you.
What then has Satan over the things of God, and in this case the people of God.
However the devil can still decieve a believer into believing his lies and hence falls into his (the devil's trap).
What defense, a believer have in this case since the devil is such a good liar, the answer is in Jesus, keep being reminded of Christ, His suffering, death and resurrection, why He have to go through all these? That we may be make whole, our body healed and we are reconciled back to God (Isaiah53).
Keep your eyes upon Jesus.
Look full in His wonderful face.
And things of this earth will grow strangely dim
in the light of His glory and grace
God bless.
Will God still protect His children if they turn away from Him? Look at the OT. See what happened? So the devil has every power in this case to hurt Christians who turned away. Even more so on non believers.
Salvation is not the issue here. Yes, we can still be saved despite turning away into sins. But there is a powerful enemy around who can attack the believer & give disease & death. -
I don't think so. They have just grown more subtle.Originally posted by casino_king:Looks to me like they have repented and are now more reasonable and intelligent... -
Originally posted by klydeer:
I never said commit suicide. Even so, who caused that person to commit suicide? Will any sane, happy man commit suicide? Who gives madness or depression? Not God but the devil right? So the devil indirectly caused the person's death. Don't u think that is some form of power? As i said, unless u say God takes lives or who takes it then, if not the devil?
The devil cannot take lives and preserve them. That doesnt point a finger to say that: "Oh ! God did it !" Dont forget, men themselves have power over their own lives and they are just as capable to either want to take good care or destroy. If a person commit suicide - do we say that it is God who cause it ?
What you are asking is perhaps if God can take lives and give disease - the simple answer is YES. Just look at the Bible - so many instances. But other than that - what then ? You might wish to also study the Bible and see why God did what He did. In much more instances, God seeks to preserve what He created.
Praying against a disease - nothing wrong with that - on the basis of mercy from God and intercession from fellow Christian friends.
Praying against the devil - again nothing wrong - on the basis that you will not fall into its lies and against temptations put forth by it.
For me, i prefer to pray in the will of God, not mine. i might not know at that point in time, what is the will of God for a particular issue. But i pray that i am able to obey - whatever is to come. And in a very personal manner, that is my faith.
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I agree that God can take lives. Look at the Flood! But those were non believers. Noah was saved, so were Enoch etc. God killed many many evil people like King Ahab, his wife etc. But this was done thru a demon, for eg. the angel of death in the last plague of Egypt. The Jews were protected from this demon by the blood of the passover lamb or they would have died also.
I am not saying it's wrong to pray against the devil or disease, but why? If the devil didnt give the disease but God did, so there is really no point praying about it or against it bcos who can fight against the will of God? -
But that adulterous man doesnt have Jesus since he is a pre or unbeliever. So how to turn his eyes upon Jesus?Originally posted by klydeer:What kind of power are you thinking about over the lives of pre-believers?
More often than not, it is men who is causing all the trouble and try to push the blame on supernatural beings (or even things that dont exist). And well, i believe that is also one of the lies the devil used - so that repentence is away from the heart and men are left wondering about forgiveness and humility. Worse, the sinning continues.
For example - a man divorced his wife due to meeting of another woman. He says it is the devil who brought this woman to him, none of his fault. Well, he can always reject advances right ? But you might ask - How? Where to find strength ?
Answer: Turn your eyes upon Jesus. All things fade and dim. He can only see the devil since he is a child of the devil. So he is partially correct when he says the devil made him do it. 
Jesus spoke of the priests & pharisees as children of the devil not Abraham. So they are just like the devil who opposes God & Christ. They lie, they spit, they hit, they crucify etc. They also don't repent. So in a sense, the devil made them do it. You know what Jesus said before He died, He said, "Forgive them for they do not know what they are doing." So how come they don't know, bcos they really didnt know! So the devil has great power over the lives of the non believers. -
Hi Raptured,
Let me just summarise my response in this post to your comments in 2 postings.
i raised a suicide subject to make a point, didnt say u said it.
There is no deny from me, that the devil can do something to make men fall. What i am basically saying, is that men has also a part to play. My worry, is that if we always push all the blame to the devil, we are in danger of denying the purpose of our will and the ability to flee from sin. We are also in the danger of not realising our own mistakes - like pride, selfishness - these are intrinsic in men, which the devil can use to trick and tempt.
Let us talk about this "power" that you mentioned. What kind of power ? Yes, the power is great in terms of influences - because relatively, men are weak. The devil's "power" however, cannot control men and is nothing comparable to God's. Refer to 1 Tim 4:1
Whether we are believers or not, we all are vulnerable to the lies and attacks of the devil. What we are saying here is that the devil cannot own the power of God - unless God allow it to be so - as in Job. But we are also created in God's image and with the power to resist.
Are you really sure, that the man who committed adultery is not a believer ? i didnt say so. Do you know how many believers commited adultery? Plenty ! And it is just not realistic to play ostrich to this fact. Look at ourselves - are you a believer ? Are you vulnerable to sin ? I would very much believe that the answer is yes. That is why, God cautioned us to flee in 2 Timothy 22. If God didnt know that we have the means to do so, he would not have asked Timothy to do so.
For a pre-believer, i am not so quick to jump into a conclusion, that the devil has great power over them. There are laws and ethics instituted through the hearts of men, to provide directions. Good men dont always come through the believers pool - look at the Samaritans in the Bible. That is why for believers, discipleship is important. It is ultimately, the choice of men to do what is right and in our case, as believers to follow God's righteousness. -
Ok. I understand.Originally posted by klydeer:Hi Raptured,
Let me just summarise my response in this post to your comments in 2 postings.
i raised a suicide subject to make a point, didnt say u said it.
There is no deny from me, that the devil can do something to make men fall. What i am basically saying, is that men has also a part to play. My worry, is that if we always push all the blame to the devil, we are in danger of denying the purpose of our will and the ability to flee from sin. We are also in the danger of not realising our own mistakes - like pride, selfishness - these are intrinsic in men, which the devil can use to trick and tempt.
Let us talk about this "power" that you mentioned. What kind of power ? Yes, the power is great in terms of influences - because relatively, men are weak. The devil's "power" however, cannot control men and is nothing comparable to God's. Refer to 1 Tim 4:1
Whether we are believers or not, we all are vulnerable to the lies and attacks of the devil. What we are saying here is that the devil cannot own the power of God - unless God allow it to be so - as in Job. But we are also created in God's image and with the power to resist.
Are you really sure, that the man who committed adultery is not a believer ? i didnt say so. Do you know how many believers commited adultery? Plenty ! And it is just not realistic to play ostrich to this fact. Look at ourselves - are you a believer ? Are you vulnerable to sin ? I would very much believe that the answer is yes. That is why, God cautioned us to flee in 2 Timothy 22. If God didnt know that we have the means to do so, he would not have asked Timothy to do so.
For a pre-believer, i am not so quick to jump into a conclusion, that the devil has great power over them. There are laws and ethics instituted through the hearts of men, to provide directions. Good men dont always come through the believers pool - look at the Samaritans in the Bible. That is why for believers, discipleship is important. It is ultimately, the choice of men to do what is right and in our case, as believers to follow God's righteousness.
Well, i agree that we have a part to play. But i was talking abt Job who didnt sin or was considered righteous by God Himself. How come satan can still hurt him? If satan could hurt Job already, how much more the non believer or sinning Christian? I wasnt talking abt the responsibility of our sins but the power of the devil. Sin or no sin, he can still attack & hurt.
I only agree to your second pt partially. Bcos the devil really has some power in controlling men, more so the non believer. Sometimes the devil will manifest very powerfully as in physical form etc. Sometimes even possess someone. How can the non believer without the protection & indwelling of the Holy Spirit overcome the devil & his demons if they really wanted to possess him?
I think u place too much abilities in man to fight the devil bcos we cannot! Without God, we are nothing! This is a heresy being preached by some preachers. We become like God w/c we aren't. We are lower than the angels bcos of our fall. So how can we fight the devil in our own strength? How can we resist the devil on our own?
Ok, fine. A Christian can still commit adultery. But i NEVER SAID a Christian cannot commit sin. I was saying when the eg u brought up is a non Christian man, he has nobody to turn to but the devil or himself & he is under great oppression by satan. Bcos even Christian can yield to the devil in this case. How much more the non Christian?
Again in your last para, i feel u place too much importance in man & his ethical teachings. If what u say is correct, then by obeying other religious teachings is good enuf, why become a Christian in the 1st place? -
Dear Raptured,Originally posted by Raptured:Ok. I understand.
Well, i agree that we have a part to play. But i was talking abt Job who didnt sin or was considered righteous by God Himself. How come satan can still hurt him? If satan could hurt Job already, how much more the non believer or sinning Christian? I wasnt talking abt the responsibility of our sins but the power of the devil. Sin or no sin, he can still attack & hurt.
I only agree to your second pt partially. Bcos the devil really has some power in controlling men, more so the non believer. Sometimes the devil will manifest very powerfully as in physical form etc. Sometimes even possess someone. How can the non believer without the protection & indwelling of the Holy Spirit overcome the devil & his demons if they really wanted to possess him?
I think u place too much abilities in man to fight the devil bcos we cannot! Without God, we are nothing! This is a heresy being preached by some preachers. We become like God w/c we aren't. We are lower than the angels bcos of our fall. So how can we fight the devil in our own strength? How can we resist the devil on our own?
Ok, fine. A Christian can still commit adultery. But i NEVER SAID a Christian cannot commit sin. I was saying when the eg u brought up is a non Christian man, he has nobody to turn to but the devil or himself & he is under great oppression by satan. Bcos even Christian can yield to the devil in this case. How much more the non Christian?
Again in your last para, i feel u place too much importance in man & his ethical teachings. If what u say is correct, then by obeying other religious teachings is good enuf, why become a Christian in the 1st place?
Please state your comments to mine in its true form, i find that you like to stretch them to an extreme.
Read Job again. It is stated very clearly, that the devil is able to hurt Job because God ALLOW the devil to do so. And what do you mean "could hurt Job already....how much more non believer or sinning Christian?" Please elaborate further.
For your reference, the responsibility of our sin - AND that being our relationship with our Lord is directly connected to the influence that the devil has as stronghold in your life. I dont agree that you can talk about the power of the devil without a direct link to who we are and our God given responsibilities. Yes, you raised a great point ! - Without God we are nothing ! But that realisation, my friend is not "inherited" - but often through a journey with Christ. And that journey is more often than not, filled with spiritual warfare between the Christian and demonic influences.
Demon possession - this is an area which i wouldnt give such clear conclusions for i have not experienced of it nor have i am given Word for it. But i do remember a sermon on the Demoniac (where a Legion of demons possessed a man) - it gives me the impression that a legion (during the Roman Empire - this means 4,000 soldiers? ) couldnt even take the life of the man - who went insane. Where men refused to care for this man, Jesus came and ordered the Legion to go into a horde of pigs, in the authority of the Father. I prefer to read this passage of the power of Christ, the selfishness of men, and the limited influences of the devil.
You said that i placed too much importance in the ethics of men. I beg to differ. it is not the importance, but the echo of my faith that men (no matter Christians or not) does inherit God like traits since we are ALL created in the image of God. Salvation therefore brings forth a journey of discovering more of such good traits and knowing who we really are, and what our relationship with God is. Such, is what i meant by discipleship and placing ourselves under the authority of the Bible.
Again, i didnt imply, that knowing other religions is good enough. Again, what is good or bad ? What i mentioned about the Good Samaritan is directly quoted from the Bible. Check it - Luke 10:25 - 37
Raptured, based on Luke 10:25 - 37 why did Jesus tells the parable of the Good Samaritan ? Perhaps we want to talk about it further as it has some bearing of what we have been discussing so far. Perhaps we want to do this through PM since we have strayed much out of topic.
Thank you. Blessings. -
somehow i feel very comforted after reading what u wroteOriginally posted by klydeer:
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Well, u see Job belongs to God as so do the Christians. But what abt unbelievers then? They belong to the devil. So he doesnt need God's permission to hurt them or kill them. So the devil can play havoc with them. U see what i mean?Originally posted by klydeer:Dear Raptured,
Please state your comments to mine in its true form, i find that you like to stretch them to an extreme.
Read Job again. It is stated very clearly, that the devil is able to hurt Job because God ALLOW the devil to do so. And what do you mean "could hurt Job already....how much more non believer or sinning Christian?" Please elaborate further.
For your reference, the responsibility of our sin - AND that being our relationship with our Lord is directly connected to the influence that the devil has as stronghold in your life. I dont agree that you can talk about the power of the devil without a direct link to who we are and our God given responsibilities. Yes, you raised a great point ! - Without God we are nothing ! But that realisation, my friend is not "inherited" - but often through a journey with Christ. And that journey is more often than not, filled with spiritual warfare between the Christian and demonic influences.
Demon possession - this is an area which i wouldnt give such clear conclusions for i have not experienced of it nor have i am given Word for it. But i do remember a sermon on the Demoniac (where a Legion of demons possessed a man) - it gives me the impression that a legion (during the Roman Empire - this means 4,000 soldiers? ) couldnt even take the life of the man - who went insane. Where men refused to care for this man, Jesus came and ordered the Legion to go into a horde of pigs, in the authority of the Father. I prefer to read this passage of the power of Christ, the selfishness of men, and the limited influences of the devil.
You said that i placed too much importance in the ethics of men. I beg to differ. it is not the importance, but the echo of my faith that men (no matter Christians or not) does inherit God like traits since we are ALL created in the image of God. Salvation therefore brings forth a journey of discovering more of such good traits and knowing who we really are, and what our relationship with God is. Such, is what i meant by discipleship and placing ourselves under the authority of the Bible.
Again, i didnt imply, that knowing other religions is good enough. Again, what is good or bad ? What i mentioned about the Good Samaritan is directly quoted from the Bible. Check it - Luke 10:25 - 37
Raptured, based on Luke 10:25 - 37 why did Jesus tells the parable of the Good Samaritan ? Perhaps we want to talk about it further as it has some bearing of what we have been discussing so far. Perhaps we want to do this through PM since we have strayed much out of topic.
Thank you. Blessings.
Yes i agree to your 2nd para but can what we do really affect our standing with God or help to protect us from the devil? Can our works help in our fight against the devil? Cannot right? Only Jesus' work on the cross right? Arent our sins forgiven also when we confess? Thanks for your comment that i am right that w/o God we are nothing, w/c serves to emphasize that we can do nothing to help in the spiritual battle except to pray etc.
So the devil has some power right over unbelievers' lives? Even if it's to cause madness or possession etc. We need Christ to deliver us. Only Jesus can set us free. We cant set ourselves free.
Yes, i agree we r all created in the image of God but don't forget man has fallen from this image. He has fallen from his place since Adam's time until Christ Jesus came to die for us & heal us by His blood & wash us clean. Sinful man is covered with sin. They cannot be like God anymore.
Good or bad makes no diff bcos we are all under the devil once. Once one becomes a Christian, he has a new identity & no longer under the devil but in Christ Jesus. So no matter how good one is, he cannot be saved.
I think Jesus told the parable of the Good Samaritan to tell the people who our neighbours are in response to a self righteous pharisee's question. Arh, don't need PM lah. What u raised is good also, so i think all should read & come to their own conclusions. -
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Joke aside..have to be serious about talking smoking..
Me a smoker..let admit..but no a chain type
After talking with those elderies, I am more clear my stand of what I am for and against smoking.
Never ban smoking in singapore. Banning of smoking can be good for the environment only.
Why good for environment yet we don't ban..cause by having a too clean environment, we naturally will lost our imune system against smoke. We will be defenceless when we go oversea for business or even leisure (lesser). Business is likely to explore to second hand smoke..this is especially other countries does not banned smoking in all public places.. Chinese business used the word "smoke and liquiod" every common. Hence we will collapse in China if we banned smoking totally.
Go for 200% increase in retail place..Hence only those diehard or rich can smoke while the rest will still have their immune system trained to defence any smoke..
Don't ban smoking..
and never -
Singapore is not a theocracy like Iran, but a democracy. So we cannot ban smoking unless the govt & majority of the people say so.Originally posted by king108: Joke aside..have to be serious about talking smoking..
Me a smoker..let admit..but no a chain type
After talking with those elderies, I am more clear my stand of what I am for and against smoking.
Never ban smoking in singapore. Banning of smoking can be good for the environment only.
Why good for environment yet we don't ban..cause by having a too clean environment, we naturally will lost our imune system against smoke. We will be defenceless when we go oversea for business or even leisure (lesser). Business is likely to explore to second hand smoke..this is especially other countries does not banned smoking in all public places.. Chinese business used the word "smoke and liquiod" every common. Hence we will collapse in China if we banned smoking totally.
Go for 200% increase in retail place..Hence only those diehard or rich can smoke while the rest will still have their immune system trained to defence any smoke..
Don't ban smoking.. and never -
Originally posted by Raptured:Well, u see Job belongs to God as so do the Christians. But what abt unbelievers then? They belong to the devil. So he doesnt need God's permission to hurt them or kill them. So the devil can play havoc with them. U see what i mean?
No. i dont see what you mean. Everyone, Everything belongs to God. Not just believers. If the devil own you, how do you think you can get to know God...at all?
Yes i agree to your 2nd para but can what we do really affect our standing with God or help to protect us from the devil? Can our works help in our fight against the devil? Cannot right? Only Jesus' work on the cross right? Arent our sins forgiven also when we confess? Thanks for your comment that i am right that w/o God we are nothing, w/c serves to emphasize that we can do nothing to help in the spiritual battle except to pray etc.
Isnt praying the most powerful weapon against the evil one? Aren't u doing something ? What we are talking about now, is resisting the devil - not on the topic of salvation. Christ died on the Cross to wash away our sins and those who believe in Him, gets eternal life. But God never says in the earthly life of Christians - we are invulnerable to the devil's attacks ! So you still need to keep a close relationship with the Lord - through what ? praying, obedience, listening, knowing, walk with Him, serve Him.
So the devil has some power right over unbelievers' lives? Even if it's to cause madness or possession etc. We need Christ to deliver us. Only Jesus can set us free. We cant set ourselves free.
Yes, i agree we r all created in the image of God but don't forget man has fallen from this image. He has fallen from his place since Adam's time until Christ Jesus came to die for us & heal us by His blood & wash us clean. Sinful man is covered with sin. They cannot be like God anymore.
Good or bad makes no diff bcos we are all under the devil once. Once one becomes a Christian, he has a new identity & no longer under the devil but in Christ Jesus. So no matter how good one is, he cannot be saved.
Raptured, let me just ask one simple question. What is Discipleship to you ? What is meant by taking up the Cross ? What do you mean when u say "in Christ Jesus" ? How do you live out your life in Christ Jesus ?
I think Jesus told the parable of the Good Samaritan to tell the people who our neighbours are in response to a self righteous pharisee's question. Arh, don't need PM lah. What u raised is good also, so i think all should read & come to their own conclusions.
Well, you got some points going. Let us talk a bit more about self-righteousness. What makes a person self righteous ? I believe (for Christians) self righteousness usually arise when we missed the heart of God's teaching. The teaching that God always emphasize througout the entire Bible - the special and distinct relationship between God and man. -
If you ask me I as a Christian am not really interested in a law that bans smoking as well... I am more interested in a day where people of their own volition and conviction, give up smoking.Originally posted by Raptured:Singapore is not a theocracy like Iran, but a democracy. So we cannot ban smoking unless the govt & majority of the people say so.
And perhaps even better when all volitions are seperately themselves, but given over and aligned towards the Maker of all volition itself.
Right now it is a different story. -
Agreed. i do know of a few colleagues, whose obedience to the Lord is greater than their own desires. One of which, smoked for 20 plus years. Went for many cessation programs, didnt work.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:If you ask me I as a Christian am not really interested in a law that bans smoking as well... I am more interested in a day where people of their own volition and conviction, give up smoking.
And perhaps even better when all volitions are seperately themselves, but given over and aligned towards the Maker of all volition itself.
Right now it is a different story.
God ask him to quit one morning. He did it by the next day, didnt return to it ever since. In many ways, i have a lot to learn from this fellow. -
Originally posted by klydeer:No. i dont see what you mean. Everyone, Everything belongs to God. Not just believers. If the devil own you, how do you think you can get to know God...at all?
Can i say God bought us with a price? The death of Jesus on the Cross?
Isnt praying the most powerful weapon against the evil one? Aren't u doing something ? What we are talking about now, is resisting the devil - not on the topic of salvation. Christ died on the Cross to wash away our sins and those who believe in Him, gets eternal life. But God never says in the earthly life of Christians - we are invulnerable to the devil's attacks ! So you still need to keep a close relationship with the Lord - through what ? praying, obedience, listening, knowing, walk with Him, serve Him.
Yes, but if someone is not praying in Jesus name, his prayer is useless. Btw, can prayer be considered work or not? I thot when we pray we are just talking to God or asking Him for things etc, so how can it be work? Are u a charismatic who believes he needs to pray in tongues until he feel release so that God has answered? I thot God does the work. We just relax & pray?
Raptured, let me just ask one simple question. What is Discipleship to you ? What is meant by taking up the Cross ? What do you mean when u say "in Christ Jesus" ? How do you live out your life in Christ Jesus ?
Well, you got some points going. Let us talk a bit more about self-righteousness. What makes a person self righteous ? I believe (for Christians) self righteousness usually arise when we missed the heart of God's teaching. The teaching that God always emphasize througout the entire Bible - the special and distinct relationship between God and man.
That relationship was broken when Adam sinned. It was until Christ came that the relationship was restored but it was not automatic. One has to receive Jesus for the relationship to start again.
Yup, that's right abt self righteousness for Christians but what abt non Christians? They dont even study the bible so where got God's teaching? -
No. I am not advocating we ban smoking for even democracies take care of the minorities views. Or else it's just majority bully the minority.Originally posted by SingaporeTyrannosaur:If you ask me I as a Christian am not really interested in a law that bans smoking as well... I am more interested in a day where people of their own volition and conviction, give up smoking.
And perhaps even better when all volitions are seperately themselves, but given over and aligned towards the Maker of all volition itself.
Right now it is a different story. -
Originally posted by Raptured:
Can i say God bought us with a price? The death of Jesus on the Cross?
Yes, of course. So how does that relate to what we are saying here ?
Yes, but if someone is not praying in Jesus name, his prayer is useless. Btw, can prayer be considered work or not? I thot when we pray we are just talking to God or asking Him for things etc, so how can it be work? Are u a charismatic who believes he needs to pray in tongues until he feel release so that God has answered? I thot God does the work. We just relax & pray?
Raptured, please answer questions to the point, dont add to it. Did i query if one should pray in Jesus name or not ? Nope.
No, prayer is not works, and i didnt say that. Works dont earn us His gift of salvation. Works in context of the bible refer to the things people do after believers received salvation. "Faith without works is dead" - do you know why ?
Just relax and pray ?. I wonder how we would understand some issues close to God's heart, if we just relax... may i know what do u mean by relax ?
Raptured, let me just ask one simple question. What is Discipleship to you ? What is meant by taking up the Cross ? What do you mean when u say "in Christ Jesus" ? How do you live out your life in Christ Jesus ?
Missed this set of questions?
Well, you got some points going. Let us talk a bit more about self-righteousness. What makes a person self righteous ? I believe (for Christians) self righteousness usually arise when we missed the heart of God's teaching. The teaching that God always emphasize througout the entire Bible - the special and distinct relationship between God and man.
That relationship was broken when Adam sinned. It was until Christ came that the relationship was restored but it was not automatic. One has to receive Jesus for the relationship to start again.
Yup, that's right abt self righteousness for Christians but what abt non Christians? They dont even study the bible so where got God's teaching?
OK. Then, how about yourself ? How did u come to know God? I am sure we all started as 'non-Christians' -
Hmm how did we come to know God?
I don't think we actually came to know Him any more then He came to make Himself understood by us. It would be an unstatement to say that it is quite impossible to understand God in any possible way via our own finite minds and physical senses.
I suspect it involves being humble a lot, for it is only through being humble can be comprehend or trust many things that we might reject outright as rubbish when we try to weight the pros and cons. Why does He do it this way? I suspect it has something to do with wooing us, and with free will.