Will you "sign up" for your salvation?
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Just this sudden thought, don't know where to post, so decided to start a new thread.
With the recent Progress Package being sent out, will there be people who refuse/forget to submit their claim? (remember those CPF tops up that many people missed out)
Why am I posting it here, It dawn on me that there maybe people who refuse to believe in this and refuse to sign up.
Is the money allocated for them? Yes
Will they receive this money if they refused to sign up? No (cause the package says, "You must sign up to receive your progress package")
Similarly, It is to the salvation plan of God, Christ had paid the price for our salvation, His body was broken that we may be made whole, whipped that we may be healed (Isa 53:4-5), He paid the penalty for our sins (Roman 3:21-26) and all we need to is to believe (John 3:14-15).
The question is, do you believe and is willing to accept and claim what He had paid for on your behalf? will you "sign up" to receive salvation, given by the grace of God through Christ Jesus our Lord?
Peace and God Bless...
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God's gift of salvation is indeed free and there is nothing we can do to obtain it.
To say that we can sign up for God's salvation is a tricky one...the very urge/conviction that causes us to 'sign up' is of the Holy Spirit and not from us. Just to make things clearer.
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wanna add somemore "liao"
there's nothing free in this world, even the progress package is everybody's hard work.
Except the free gift of eternal life, which God had given us through His Son, Jesus.
No sins can be forgiven without the shedding of blood. Jesus who is the Lamb of God, the Perfect Sacrifice, blemish and without sin obeyed God to lay down His life for us.
so that we can be recounciled back to our Father in Heaven, whom created us in His image. -
where do the money from progress package came from?
from our pockets. -
Thanks,Originally posted by NT2:God's gift of salvation is indeed free and there is nothing we can do to obtain it.
To say that we can sign up for God's salvation is a tricky one...the very urge/conviction that causes us to 'sign up' is of the Holy Spirit and not from us. Just to make things clearer.
that why "sign up" is in quotes.. -
What happens after one signs up for the progress package? Does one take all the money out of the bank & spend it all leaving nothing behind?
Similarly, what happens after one "signs up" for salvation? Does one "spend" away the gift of salvation & live like the devil? Can salvation be actually "spent" like money from the progress package leaving no more salvation "dollars"? So when God asks us to account for our talents, we have none left? What will happen then? Does one go to hell after "bankrupting" spiritually?
Any comments or objections anyone? -
Hi,Originally posted by Raptured:What happens after one signs up for the progress package? Does one take all the money out of the bank & spend it all leaving nothing behind?
Similarly, what happens after one "signs up" for salvation? Does one "spend" away the gift of salvation & live like the devil? Can salvation be actually "spent" like money from the progress package leaving no more salvation "dollars"? So when God asks us to account for our talents, we have none left? What will happen then? Does one go to hell after "bankrupting" spiritually?
Any comments or objections anyone?
the purpose of my post is in regards to accepting Christ and receiving His Salvation.
First of all, in regards to 'spending one salvation away', the question then is if a person truly know how precious this gift is, will he want to 'squander' it away?
I am putting them in quotes because you can't really spent it nor squander it (at least not the way we understand it),
But there is a way one can abandon it, that is by going back to works, meaning after one received salvation through grace in Christ, this person now wants to justify himself through works, then he had just abandon Christ.
In regards to talents, If one is in Christ, then the Holy Spirit is in you, can one really 'bankrupt' the Holy Spirit?
2Gal 5:2-5 (NIV)
Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope.
peace and God Bless -
One thing i always pray that will not happen to me is the one thing i always dread the most. And that is, if the time will come when i will start to trust in my own works for salvation.
When i will start to trust in Christ plus my good works for salvation. May this never happen to me. May it be Christ alone from first to last.
I hope by the grace of God that in my dying days I will be able to say to God:
"Lord, i have lived out your commandments, i have followed you Lord, but my trust and confidence of reaching heaven is not in them, it is in Christ, in what He did on the cross alone nothing and no one else. You know my heart that He has been my lone confidence ever since i understood His work of salvation.. Now, bless your servant as he departs, i have fought the good fight......i have kept the faith." -
Yes, His salvation is free. But how come people don't want it? I thot Singaporeans will go for anything free & line up even if it's for Hello Kitty toys? I did a lot of thinking recently & i am very much less involved in Christianity & prayer, bible reading, church going etc. I am feeling somehow i got cheated bcos i was vulnerable at that time.Originally posted by vince69:Hi,
the purpose of my post is in regards to accepting Christ and receiving His Salvation.
First of all, in regards to 'spending one salvation away', the question then is if a person truly know how precious this gift is, will he want to 'squander' it away?
I am putting them in quotes because you can't really spent it nor squander it (at least not the way we understand it),
But there is a way one can abandon it, that is by going back to works, meaning after one received salvation through grace in Christ, this person now wants to justify himself through works, then he had just abandon Christ.
If a gift is free & mind you gifts are free, will anyone still consider it precious after receiving the gift? Why won't he be like a typical Singaporean who abandons his/her pet dog which is given as a gift to him/her by someone on b'day when the novelty wears off? Then we have a stray dog problem causing huge headache to SPCA. Are some Christians like this? Do they fall away when the novelty of salvation wears off? Or bcos they don't pay a single cent for it?
If by going back to works one can lose his/her salvation goes to show that salvation can be lost! Unless i understand from your words that there is a third state of man, which is a carnal Christian who has abandoned Christ but still keeps his salvation or fire insurance.
Yes, we can't "bankcrupt" the Holy Spirit but will the Holy Spirit still live in a "bankcrupt" body & soul? Can He stand the filth & sins of the bankcrupted Christian? Can the blood still atone for what a Christian wants to do deliberately when he knows that it's wrong to do?Originally posted by vince69:In regards to talents, If one is in Christ, then the Holy Spirit is in you, can one really 'bankrupt' the Holy Spirit?
peace and God Bless -
God bless you to have such noble thots. But i am beginning to find it illogical. Do we sit somewhere under the coconut tree by the beach & wait for heaven to come on earth in the mean time? I would really like to do this spiritually, mentally & physically if i could but i can't bcos of so many reasons & obstacles.Originally posted by Ironside:One thing i always pray that will not happen to me is the one thing i always dread the most. And that is, if the time will come when i will start to trust in my own works for salvation.
When i will start to trust in Christ plus my good works for salvation. May this never happen to me. May it be Christ alone from first to last.
I hope by the grace of God that in my dying days I will be able to say to God:
"Lord, i have lived out your commandments, i have followed you Lord, but my trust and confidence of reaching heaven is not in them, it is in Christ, in what He did on the cross alone nothing and no one else. You know my heart that He has been my lone confidence ever since i understood His work of salvation.. Now, bless your servant as he departs, i have fought the good fight......i have kept the faith." -
Hey Rapture,Originally posted by Raptured:If by going back to works one can lose his/her salvation goes to show that salvation can be lost! Unless i understand from your words that there is a third state of man, which is a carnal Christian who has abandoned Christ but still keeps his salvation or fire insurance.
Yes, we can't "bankcrupt" the Holy Spirit but will the Holy Spirit still live in a "bankcrupt" body & soul? Can He stand the filth & sins of the bankcrupted Christian? Can the blood still atone for what a Christian wants to do deliberately when he knows that it's wrong to do?
Let me explain this to you slowly..
Lets begin from the start,
1) Christ had fully, completely and perfectly fulfills all that is required by the law.
2) The fallen men cannot and will not be able to do this through his own works.
3) So when we decided to put our faith in Christ and not our works, we received salvation through grace in Christ.
4) so having received this salvation through grace in Christ, and not our works but by the works of Christ, what can we say? can we or should we boost the its our works that brought us this gift? absolately not!
5) By saying that we need to work to keep this salvation, is a mockery on Christ, its equalvent to saying Christ's work is not good enough or complete enough so we must do something about it.
6) will the Holy Spirit leave a Christian for any reason? absoluately not!, why am I so confident about this, cause God promised in His word that He will never leave you nor forsake you, and God never goes back on His words.
God Bless. -
We have a lot to do my friend. 1)We are mandated by Christ to spread His free salvation to the world. 2) WE are to minister to our fellow believers for their edification. 3) WE are to pursue holiness. 4) give our bodies a living sacrifice to God 5) grow in the grace and knowledge of our Savior Jesus Christ and etc................all these in an attitude of anticipating the Lord's any moment return [Rapture].Originally posted by Raptured:God bless you to have such noble thots. But i am beginning to find it illogical. Do we sit somewhere under the coconut tree by the beach & wait for heaven to come on earth in the mean time? I would really like to do this spiritually, mentally & physically if i could but i can't bcos of so many reasons & obstacles.
Saving grace does not teach you to be complacent. It teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, teaches us to live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age.
Have you trusted in Christ alone for salvation my friend? Salvation is free, complete and permanent. In order for a saved person to be unsaved, one must undo what Christ Jesus has done for him.
so if salvation cannot be lost, am i free to sin? Absolutely not. Christians are not saved TO sin they are saved FROM sin. penalty, POWER and presence [this one {presense} is future].
Is it possible for a Christian, a saved person to TEMPORARILY stray from Christ? Yes, if one is not vigilant and prayerful and neglects the other means of grace. If one constantly not walk in the Spirit.
What happens at this point?
a) First whether the backsliding Christian knows it or not, he has an Advocate.
if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. This gurantees his salvation. He has a lawyer yet to be defeated in God's court.
b) God uses means to call back his straying son or daughter. other Christians, sermons he or she may hear, memory verses and etc.
c) If he or she refuses to return, God as father uses the rod of discipline on him or her. Hebrews 12. 5-11. 1 Corinthians 5: 3-5.
Will the Holy Spirit depart from the saved person if he or she backslides [in this dispensation]?
Joh 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever
What happens if a Christian backslides? the Holy Spirit will be grieved.
What are the eternal consequences of the backsliding one?
He will lose his or her rewards that were meant for faithful Christias in the Judgement Seat of Christ. Salvation is free. Rewards are not. They must be earned.
How will you earn your reward? Be faithful. Witness to others. Bring back a backslding one. Do Christ commands and a whole lot of other things.
Who is the one maintaining my salvation? Is it me or God?
1Pe 1:5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
How can God do this? Keep a saved person saved eventhough he or she sins?
a) Christ death is once and for all. In God's eyes the history of the world from beginning to end is finished. It is like us watching a movie for a second time. We know the movie already from start to finish. Who will falter, who will fall who will succeed.
God provided an atonement for all of the sins from Adam to the last man in the last day.
b) it is based on his pre creation plan. That all the elect will attain to the glory of His salvation. His keeeping grace makes this plan a certainty.
1Pe 1:5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
c) His preserving grace does a work in the heart of a Christian to keep the saved from falling away completely and finally.
Jer 32:39 'then I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me forever, for the good of them and their children after them.
40 'And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me.
So why did Peter depart?
His preserving grace does a work in the heart of a Christian to keep the saved from falling away completely and finally
Peter returned, Judas did not. The difference are those verses above.
When the Lord said that Peter's faith should not fail. He meant COMPLETELY fail.
Lu 22:32 "But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren."
Why is it that a Christian still backslides if he or she is now saved? Can God make a saved sinner not sin anymore completely and perfectly?
As to the second question: God in His wisdom did not choose that plan. Absolutely. God can make a saved sinner be able to not sin anymore in this lifetime if He wants to. But again God in His wisdom did not choose this plan.
First question: a christian still backslides because of the presence of the sinful nature in him. The saved person has two natures: sinful and regenerate.
[some of our Reformed Covenant friends would disagree with this, they believe in one nature of a Christian only {regenerate nature only no sinful nature} but this is a weak position to prove biblically and even in our daily experience. will tackel that some other time]
eventhough a person is saved [has a regenerate nature in him], he cannot beat sin in his life if he or she will not walk in the Spirit. The Bible says it is through the Spirit that we are able to put to death the works of the sinful nature.
Romans 7: 14-25 is a picture of this. I believe this was when Paul was still in Arabia during his first days of being saved.
Romans 7:14-25 is a picture of a regenerate man. He already has a genuine desire to obey [unregenerate or unsaved persons do not have a genuine desire to obey] and yet still fails in practice. He ask the question in the end:
"O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death [it is a body of death because, though saved and regenerate, the members of his body still practice sin]?"
Romans 8 gives the answer: It is through relying and walking in the Spirit. -
where've you been vince? -
Hi ironsideOriginally posted by Ironside:where've you been vince?
was at the other quieter christian forumfor a while, anyway, two days of low period, then back to busy work schedule again.
God Bless -
Thanks for your reply. I believe you subscribe to the OSAS or once saved always saved theology. I hope you are right cos Christians still sin in the flesh. That's why a lot of non Christians dont want to become Christians, seeing some Christians sinning like a hypocrite. Also, some Christians also backslide or stop going to church bcos of what certain Christians did to them or others. Sigh.Originally posted by vince69:Hey Rapture,
Let me explain this to you slowly..
Lets begin from the start,
1) Christ had fully, completely and perfectly fulfills all that is required by the law.
2) The fallen men cannot and will not be able to do this through his own works.
3) So when we decided to put our faith in Christ and not our works, we received salvation through grace in Christ.
4) so having received this salvation through grace in Christ, and not our works but by the works of Christ, what can we say? can we or should we boost the its our works that brought us this gift? absolately not!
5) By saying that we need to work to keep this salvation, is a mockery on Christ, its equalvent to saying Christ's work is not good enough or complete enough so we must do something about it.
6) will the Holy Spirit leave a Christian for any reason? absoluately not!, why am I so confident about this, cause God promised in His word that He will never leave you nor forsake you, and God never goes back on His words.
God Bless. -
Originally posted by Ironside:
Thanks for your comments. But we can only do what God tells us to do or allow us to do. Christ also can do only what the Father is doing. He sees God doing it in heaven then He does it on earth. If God doesnt do it, He also cannot do it bcos the Holy Spirit will not do it.
We have a lot to do my friend. 1)We are mandated by Christ to spread His free salvation to the world. 2) WE are to minister to our fellow believers for their edification. 3) WE are to pursue holiness. 4) give our bodies a living sacrifice to God 5) grow in the grace and knowledge of our Savior Jesus Christ and etc................all these in an attitude of anticipating the Lord's any moment return [Rapture].
Saving grace does not teach you to be complacent. It teaches us to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts, teaches us to live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age.
Have you trusted in Christ alone for salvation my friend? Salvation is free, complete and permanent. In order for a saved person to be unsaved, one must undo what Christ Jesus has done for him.
[b]so if salvation cannot be lost, am i free to sin? Absolutely not. Christians are not saved TO sin they are saved FROM sin. penalty, POWER and presence [this one {presense} is future].
Is it possible for a Christian, a saved person to TEMPORARILY stray from Christ? Yes, if one is not vigilant and prayerful and neglects the other means of grace. If one constantly not walk in the Spirit.
What happens at this point?
a) First whether the backsliding Christian knows it or not, he has an Advocate.
if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. This gurantees his salvation. He has a lawyer yet to be defeated in God's court.
b) God uses means to call back his straying son or daughter. other Christians, sermons he or she may hear, memory verses and etc.
c) If he or she refuses to return, God as father uses the rod of discipline on him or her. Hebrews 12. 5-11. 1 Corinthians 5: 3-5.
Will the Holy Spirit depart from the saved person if he or she backslides [in this dispensation]?
Joh 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever
What happens if a Christian backslides? the Holy Spirit will be grieved.
What are the eternal consequences of the backsliding one?
He will lose his or her rewards that were meant for faithful Christias in the Judgement Seat of Christ. Salvation is free. Rewards are not. They must be earned.
How will you earn your reward? Be faithful. Witness to others. Bring back a backslding one. Do Christ commands and a whole lot of other things.
Who is the one maintaining my salvation? Is it me or God?
1Pe 1:5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
How can God do this? Keep a saved person saved eventhough he or she sins?
a) Christ death is once and for all. In God's eyes the history of the world from beginning to end is finished. It is like us watching a movie for a second time. We know the movie already from start to finish. Who will falter, who will fall who will succeed.
God provided an atonement for all of the sins from Adam to the last man in the last day.
b) it is based on his pre creation plan. That all the elect will attain to the glory of His salvation. His keeeping grace makes this plan a certainty.
1Pe 1:5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
c) His preserving grace does a work in the heart of a Christian to keep the saved from falling away completely and finally.
Jer 32:39 'then I will give them one heart and one way, that they may fear Me forever, for the good of them and their children after them.
40 'And I will make an everlasting covenant with them, that I will not turn away from doing them good; but I will put My fear in their hearts so that they will not depart from Me.
So why did Peter depart?
His preserving grace does a work in the heart of a Christian to keep the saved from falling away completely and finally
Peter returned, Judas did not. The difference are those verses above.
When the Lord said that Peter's faith should not fail. He meant COMPLETELY fail.
Lu 22:32 "But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren."
Why is it that a Christian still backslides if he or she is now saved? Can God make a saved sinner not sin anymore completely and perfectly?
As to the second question: God in His wisdom did not choose that plan. Absolutely. God can make a saved sinner be able to not sin anymore in this lifetime if He wants to. But again God in His wisdom did not choose this plan.
First question: a christian still backslides because of the presence of the sinful nature in him. The saved person has two natures: sinful and regenerate.
[some of our Reformed Covenant friends would disagree with this, they believe in one nature of a Christian only {regenerate nature only no sinful nature} but this is a weak position to prove biblically and even in our daily experience. will tackel that some other time]
eventhough a person is saved [has a regenerate nature in him], he cannot beat sin in his life if he or she will not walk in the Spirit. The Bible says it is through the Spirit that we are able to put to death the works of the sinful nature.
Romans 7: 14-25 is a picture of this. I believe this was when Paul was still in Arabia during his first days of being saved.
Romans 7:14-25 is a picture of a regenerate man. He already has a genuine desire to obey [unregenerate or unsaved persons do not have a genuine desire to obey] and yet still fails in practice. He ask the question in the end:
"O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death [it is a body of death because, though saved and regenerate, the members of his body still practice sin]?"
Romans 8 gives the answer: It is through relying and walking in the Spirit.
[/b]
Similarly, what we do for God is not our will. It's all God's will. Bcos if one were to believe in OSAS, that means one is more leaning twds Calvinism where one has limited free will to speak of. Everything being determined by God. So if we cannot do certain things, is that our fault? Similarly, if we are not allowed to do certain things for God, so how can God reward justly?
I feel God is a bit unfair to some people. God hasnt given them a lot of talents. God hasnt allowed them to have many friends to spread gospel to. God hasnt given them anyone to save in their entire lives. God hasnt given them much money to donate t church. God hasnt given them much time to use for God. God hasnt willed them to do certain things but to suffer. So how can God be just in His rewards? How to measure one's rewards? Is it the number of converts? Is it the quality of the converts? Is it the no of hrs put in for God? Is it the degree of faithfulness & holiness one has for God? Is it the no of hrs put in for church work? Etc. etc.
So how can God be just in rewarding His saints? Bcos not what we will but what our Father wills. I want to do a lot of things for God but everything went haywire. Similarly, someone might do a lot of things for God but in the end not get rewarded. So how to judge? Can God be fair still?
Since God is not fair regarding salvation, He similarly cannot be fair regarding rewards. Bcos up to Him to give what! Remember the parable of the workers. Some work whole day. Some work half a day. Some work only one hr! So when the earliest worker came, they expected to receive a lot but they got the same amt of money as those who work only one hr! There are many who are called but few are chosen. There are many who are first shall be last & last first. -
I subscribe to the word of God in the Bible. I believe that when God made a promise, He will be faithful to keep them.Originally posted by Raptured:Thanks for your reply. I believe you subscribe to the OSAS or once saved always saved theology. I hope you are right cos Christians still sin in the flesh. That's why a lot of non Christians dont want to become Christians, seeing some Christians sinning like a hypocrite. Also, some Christians also backslide or stop going to church bcos of what certain Christians did to them or others. Sigh.
God Bless.