Lets talk about Jesus.
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urm, two thingsOriginally posted by despondent:to laurence82
thanx for bringing tat up...according to geologians, there 1 day missing from the historical calendar...n they cun explain y...the bible stated tat it was due to God stopping time for 1 day(read bk of job)...well, we may nt be able to prove tat actually happened...but it offers an explanation
What historical calendar? The Gregorian, the Julian, the Chinese lunar calendar..or?
and, what missing day? you got any article or source so that we all can at least read, coz at this point in time, i am confused about the missing day. -
gregorian...dun have any articles...perhaps the other christians can help u?
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Duh .. I just realized I fell for their red herring.
When did argument progress to the accuracy of dates? Ascertaining whether Napoleon existed is different from ascertaining whether Independance happened in 1776. -
Not just astronomical method..how about carbon dating?Originally posted by Icemoon:Birth of Jesus also can be determined via astronomical methods. Too bad we have no idea what was the phenomena recorded in the bible.
Don't even know real or fake in the first place.
A good example is the Turin Shroud issue.
And icemoon, remember the time i debated with you about Noah's Ark? I think you said that if this artifact is dug up and carbon dated and coincide with the events written in the Bible, wont that at the very least prove that part of the Bible right? -
He talk cock one lah .. I see how he going to pull it off.Originally posted by laurence82:urm, two things
What historical calendar? The Gregorian, the Julian, the Chinese lunar calendar..or?
and, what missing day? you got any article or source so that we all can at least read, coz at this point in time, i am confused about the missing day. -
I thought the Turin Shroud is more or less a fraud liao? Anyway I don't think they dated that to 1st century Palestine. Some even dated it to after the 10th century of something?Originally posted by laurence82:Not just astronomical method..how about carbon dating?
A good example is the Turin Shroud issue.
And icemoon, remember the time i debated with you about Noah's Ark? I think you said that if this artifact is dug up and carbon dated and coincide with the events written in the Bible, wont that at the very least prove that part of the Bible right? -
Precisely why carbon dating is a good technique for calculating dates of events, or to support or disprove historical records and artifacts.Originally posted by Icemoon:I thought the Turin Shroud is more or less a fraud liao? Anyway I don't think they dated that to 1st century Palestine. Some even dated it to after the 10th century of something? -
haha .. reminds me actually lawyers and certain xtians use the same tactic in arguing.Originally posted by laurence82:Precisely why carbon dating is a good technique for calculating dates of events, or to support or disprove historical records and artifacts.
When A wants to sue B on infringement of patent, B's lawyers will go to court and argue patent isn't valid in the first place.
Similarly .. one tactic is to argue why carbon dating is inaccurate. -
huh?Originally posted by Icemoon:haha .. reminds me actually lawyers and certain xtians use the same tactic in arguing.
When A wants to sue B on infringement of patent, B's lawyers will go to court and argue patent isn't valid in the first place.
Similarly .. one tactic is to argue why carbon dating is inaccurate. -
You can play it both ways.Originally posted by laurence82:huh?
If carbon dating supports your claims, well and good. If not, you can always argue carbon dating is inaccurate 'cos of sudden change in earth conditions.
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Then the Turin Shroud how?Originally posted by Icemoon:You can play it both ways.
If carbon dating supports your claims, well and good. If not, you can always argue carbon dating is inaccurate 'cos of sudden change in earth conditions. -
dunno. it is not something Christians use to argue for Jesus.Originally posted by laurence82:Then the Turin Shroud how?
When did you last read someone using the shroud as evidence of Jesus? -
Actually I didnt mean that way.Originally posted by Icemoon:dunno. it is not something Christians use to argue for Jesus.
When did you last read someone using the shroud as evidence of Jesus?
It was more of, carbon dating, in this case, can partly prove whether or not the Shroud belongs to Jesus -
ok I understand.Originally posted by laurence82:Actually I didnt mean that way.
It was more of, carbon dating, in this case, can partly prove whether or not the Shroud belongs to Jesus
It relates to verifiability of an issue. Making a claim that can be verified is one hallmark of science, physical or social. -
wait long long ..Originally posted by despondent:gregorian...dun have any articles...perhaps the other christians can help u?
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Matthew 12:38-40:
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." 39 But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Matthew 16:1-4:
1 Then the Pharisees and Sadducees came, and testing Him asked that He would show them a sign from heaven. 2 He answered and said to them, "When it is evening you say, 'It will be fair weather, for the sky is red'; 3 and in the morning, 'It will be foul weather today, for the sky is red and threatening.' Hypocrites! You know how to discern the face of the sky, but you cannot discern the signs of the times. 4 A wicked and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign shall be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah." And He left them and departed.
Luke 11:29-30:
29 And while the crowds were thickly gathered together, He began to say, "This is an evil generation. It seeks a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of Jonah the prophet. For as Jonah became a sign to the Ninevites, so also the Son of Man will be to this generation. -
OK I will look at it but in the mean time; please explain to me how anybody can be "the only begotten Son of God" when God does not exists?Originally posted by vince69:The book I refer to you earlier contains comprehensive research done on the answers you seek, and you had dismissed it without even looking at it, just because I refuse to type out the thousands of pages here for you (don't think I ever want to do this), anyway, I managed to find a more concise online version of it for you.
"The Case For Christ - Examine The Evidence"
http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/the-case-for-christ.htm
The Case for Christ - The Hearing
Is there a case for Christ? If there were to be an arbitrary legal hearing - a court case to determine whether or not Jesus Christ is in fact the only begotten Son of God - would He be vindicated by the evidence, or exposed as a fraud?
If there is any evidence that God exists we will not have so many different types of religion that contradicts each other.
Have you watched superman the movie? Have you watched Chow Yun Fatt in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon?
Why do you instinctively dismiss it as fantasy because - people cannot fly around like that but when it comes to Jesus; you do not dismiss the stories as fiction when you read about Jesus walking on water?
I know of somebody who insists that in China thousands of years ago, people can really do what the chinese kung fu movies show. Only in recent times did people "lose" the ability.
Why do you insists on good evidence when it comes to Buddhists claims but accept hearsay evidence when it comes to Christianity? -
KSM??Originally posted by casino_king:OK I will look at it but in the mean time; please explain to me how anybody can be "the only begotten Son of God" when God does not exists?
If there is any evidence that God exists we will not have so many different types of religion that contradicts each other.
You might as well ask how anybody can be son of Dongfang Bu Bai when the latter doesn't exist. Wonder why you ask the question in the first place ..
Your second paragraph .. on the contrary many different religions exist 'cos there are evidence that God exists. You heard of wu2 feng1 bu4 qi3 lang4? Contradict then contradict .. some UFO victims said aliens look like this .. some said they look like that .. but surely there are many evidence of UFO.
Of course .. maybe UFO doesn't exist after all .. but don't say no evidence and form your conclusion so fast right?Have you watched superman the movie? Have you watched Chow Yun Fatt in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon?
Why do you instinctively dismiss it as fantasy because - people cannot fly around like that but when it comes to Jesus; you do not dismiss the stories as fiction when you read about Jesus walking on water?I know of somebody who insists that in China thousands of years ago, people can really do what the chinese kung fu movies show. Only in recent times did people "lose" the ability.
This belief in itself has no effect on us. But belief in the faith comes in a package; the belief affects you.
I not known anyone who believes in ancient qing gong (the flying version like you said) and affected him so much he cried and life change for better and better still miracles happen.
In the past .. I heard the famous Jiu Yang Sheng Gong can heal internal injuries. But Christian miracles record the removal of cancer cells instantly (after a prayer).Why do you insists on good evidence when it comes to Buddhists claims but accept hearsay evidence when it comes to Christianity?
Buddhism don't base their claim on evidence. Their true/false don't rest on a historical fact.
If Christ had not risen, the faith of the Christians will be in vain.
If Buddha had not sat under the Bodhi tree he is still Buddha. -
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called 'Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace'. Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end. (Is 9:6-7).
This is supposed to be a prophecy foretelling the birth of Jesus. But does it? Other than being born no event mentioned here happened to Jesus. The government was not on his shoulders, he was never called nor did he call himself by the titles mentioned here and there has been no more peace since he was born than there was before. This is a fairly good example of the 'amazing prophecies' upon which Christianity is based. Before Jesus' birth an angel is supposed to have prophesied that
The Lord God will make him a king, as his ancestor David was, and he will be the king of the descendants of Jacob forever (Lk 1:32-33). -
When I say evidence, I mean good verifiable evidence and not some baseless claims by some people somewhere.Originally posted by Icemoon:Buddhism don't base their claim on evidence. Their true/false don't rest on a historical fact.
If Christ had not risen, the faith of the Christians will be in vain.
If Buddha had not sat under the Bodhi tree he is still Buddha.
If what you say is true that people can be cured of cancer with a prayer why don't you do everybody a favour and go to the hospitals and pray everyday?
I am now starting to think that the reason you have imaginary friends because you accept anything as evidence. -
Conveniently they will tell you that it will happen sometime in the future and or it is symbolical and or it refers to the heavenly kingdom.... when you are willing to accept dribble as evidence, you can interpret away all the internal incoherences that for any reasonable person shows how unbelieveble the whole enterprise is.Originally posted by neutral_onliner:For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called 'Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace'. Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end. (Is 9:6-7).
This is supposed to be a prophecy foretelling the birth of Jesus. But does it? Other than being born no event mentioned here happened to Jesus. The government was not on his shoulders, he was never called nor did he call himself by the titles mentioned here and there has been no more peace since he was born than there was before. This is a fairly good example of the 'amazing prophecies' upon which Christianity is based. Before Jesus' birth an angel is supposed to have prophesied that
The Lord God will make him a king, as his ancestor David was, and he will be the king of the descendants of Jacob forever (Lk 1:32-33).
But they do find meaning and comfort in believing imaginary stuff. Maybe religion is the opiate of the masses after all. -
See the other thread:
sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=173838&page=4
The Buddhist seems to have given up. The Christians give up too? -
Luke 17:20-21:Originally posted by neutral_onliner:For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called 'Wonderful Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace'. Of the increase of his government and of peace there will be no end. (Is 9:6-7).
This is supposed to be a prophecy foretelling the birth of Jesus. But does it? Other than being born no event mentioned here happened to Jesus. The government was not on his shoulders, he was never called nor did he call himself by the titles mentioned here and there has been no more peace since he was born than there was before. This is a fairly good example of the 'amazing prophecies' upon which Christianity is based. Before Jesus' birth an angel is supposed to have prophesied that
The Lord God will make him a king, as his ancestor David was, and he will be the king of the descendants of Jacob forever (Lk 1:32-33).
20 Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God does not come with observation; 21 nor will they say, 'See here!' or 'See there!' For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you."
John 3:1-3:
1 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews. 2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, "Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him." 3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
1 Pet 2:9:
9 But you are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, His own special people, that you may proclaim the praises of Him who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light;
Revelation 1:4-6:
4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed F1 us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
The Kingdom of God can be a spiritual one. It will have a future fulfillment as a physical one. -
Well, for the Buddhists, I dare say they are not entirely concerned that you dont believe them. After all, the statues at Afghanistan were blown up and they dont go on a rampage.Originally posted by casino_king:See the other thread:
sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=173838&page=4
The Buddhist seems to have given up. The Christians give up too?
For the less extreme Christians, they wouldnt force you if you dont believe. The late Pope has been shot but he forgave anyway.
I hope you had all your fun already. -
Nobody can force you to believe. You have to choose yourself. God also won't force you.Originally posted by casino_king:See the other thread:
sgforums.com/?action=thread_display&thread_id=173838&page=4
The Buddhist seems to have given up. The Christians give up too?