One question
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Hi there,
I was told during my bible class that Muslim recongise the Moses law and the old testament, So how come that they hate the Jew? -
Sorry, maybe i use the wrong term. it should be why there are dispute in the middle east between the muslim and jew? Just would like to know the history.
thanks -
The only recognise the Torah in its original form. The version we have today is corrupted, or so they claim.Originally posted by dazmario:Hi there,
I was told during my bible class that Muslim recongise the Moses law and the old testament, So how come that they hate the Jew?
The Koran is the last and final revelation from God. It is the only revelation they trust now. -
The Jews & Muslims have Abraham as their father. But the contention comes when the Jews said Isaac & Jacob is the rightful heir. But the muslims said Ishmael is the rightful heir. So the fight continues. They are half brothers but dont act like brothers at all. Ishmael was bullying Isaac before they split. Ishmael was the older half brother of Isaac, the son of Hagar & Abraham. Hagar was Sarah's maid. Sarah was Abraham's wife. Sarah bore Isaac in her old age after Hagar had Ishmael. So family trouble spread to become international trouble now. Headache. So pls dont commit polygamy. It will lead to headaches.
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Originally posted by Repented John 2:So pls dont commit polygamy. It will lead to headaches.
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do muslim agree that ishmael bullied isaac?Originally posted by Repented John 2:The Jews & Muslims have Abraham as their father. But the contention comes when the Jews said Isaac & Jacob is the rightful heir. But the muslims said Ishmael is the rightful heir. So the fight continues. They are half brothers but dont act like brothers at all. Ishmael was bullying Isaac before they split. Ishmael was the older half brother of Isaac, the son of Hagar & Abraham. Hagar was Sarah's maid. Sarah was Abraham's wife. Sarah bore Isaac in her old age after Hagar had Ishmael. So family trouble spread to become international trouble now. Headache. So pls dont commit polygamy. It will lead to headaches. -
The animosity between the Muslims and the Jews probably stems from the rivalry between Ishamel and Isaac.Originally posted by dazmario:Hi there,
I was told during my bible class that Muslim recongise the Moses law and the old testament, So how come that they hate the Jew?
Sorry, but i am too tired (rough day at work) to look for a reference at this point of time, but take some time to refer to Genesis on the story of how the two boys were born and the prophecies given to the offspring of Abraham. -
Muslims believe it was Ishmael whom Abraham wanted to sacrifice on the altar not Isaac & the covenant was with Ishmael. I dont know abt the bullying thing. Probably not.Originally posted by Ito_^:do muslim agree that ishmael bullied isaac? -
Right what! Headaches for the wives. Headaches for the inheritance. Headaches for the children. Etc. & in the case of Abraham, headaches for the Jews & Arabs. Headaches for the world. Headaches for God!Originally posted by breytonhartge: -
Panadol for the wives, Panadol for the inheritance. Panadol for the children. Panadol for Jews & Arabs . Panadol for the world. Panadol for God ! lolOriginally posted by Repented John 2:Right what! Headaches for the wives. Headaches for the inheritance. Headaches for the children. Etc. & in the case of Abraham, headaches for the Jews & Arabs. Headaches for the world. Headaches for God! -
I'm a little confused.Originally posted by Chin Eng:The animosity between the Muslims and the Jews probably stems from the rivalry between Ishamel and Isaac.
Sorry, but i am too tired (rough day at work) to look for a reference at this point of time, but take some time to refer to Genesis on the story of how the two boys were born and the prophecies given to the offspring of Abraham.
Since Ishmael is the eldest son, then isn't he supposed to get the birthright?
This Sarah siao2 gao4 one .. she gave her maid to her husband and specifically gave him permission to screw her. So this was never an adulterous affair.
But after that she chased the maid away!
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No because God said that the blessing would be through Issac and not Ishmael. Also Ishmael is not pure jew. The jews follow lineage through the mothers side.Originally posted by Icemoon:I'm a little confused.
Since Ishmael is the eldest son, then isn't he supposed to get the birthright?
This Sarah siao2 gao4 one .. she gave her maid to her husband and specifically gave him permission to screw her. So this was never an adulterous affair.
But after that she chased the maid away! -
Then if you don't marry a Jewish girl, means you have no [Jewish] descendant liao?Originally posted by breytonhartge:No because God said that the blessing would be through Issac and not Ishmael. Also Ishmael is not pure jew. The jews follow lineage through the mothers side.
Poor Moses! (he married Tzipporah) -
Brey,Originally posted by breytonhartge:No because God said that the blessing would be through Issac and not Ishmael. Also Ishmael is not pure jew. The jews follow lineage through the mothers side.
(I might be wrong on this), I thought Isreal (hence the Jews) does not exist until after Jacob (aka Isreal)?
so strictly speaking Abraham/Issac is not a Jew, though they may be forefathers of the Jewish people.
Yes, God's promised Abraham (as in the Bible) is that the blessing/covernant will be given through his child with Sarah.
Actually the father of the jewish people is Abraham, this is where it started from. The deviation occured when Abraham did not follow God's direction. And so indeed the promise made to Abraham was still fulfilled, that his seed would number more than the stars in the sky... -
Hmm .. since Isaac practised the birthright rule, then I suppose this rule applied to him and his half brother also.Originally posted by vince69:Brey,
(I might be wrong on this), I thought Isreal (hence the Jews) does not exist until after Jacob (aka Isreal)?
so strictly speaking Abraham/Issac is not a Jew, though they may be forefathers of the Jewish people.
Yes, God's promised Abraham (as in the Bible) is that the blessing/covernant will be given through his child with Sarah.
So Brey's jewish mother rule shouldn't be used at all. Rather God showed the world He is sovereign by setting the rules of the game. -
the bilbe tell the story of Issac. How about Ishmael? what happen to him? how he link to the muslim?
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Ishmael's seed became the arab nations as we know today.Originally posted by dazmario:the bilbe tell the story of Issac. How about Ishmael? what happen to him? how he link to the muslim? -
Regarding God's blessing upon Ishmael (for Abraham's sake) Gen17:20.Originally posted by dazmario:the bilbe tell the story of Issac. How about Ishmael? what happen to him? how he link to the muslim?
The descendants of Ishmael (the list) can be found in Gen25:12-18
some says these are the forefathers of the Arab people. -
Yes, Jesus the doctor will provide the panadols but dont you think it's too late after the big headaches are caused? I think God doesnt need panadols. I think He can solve whatever headaches men created.Originally posted by brown_obsession:Panadol for the wives, Panadol for the inheritance. Panadol for the children. Panadol for Jews & Arabs . Panadol for the world. Panadol for God ! lol -
Strictly speaking, the Jews are actually the people who lived in Judah while the Israelites were the ones living in the northern Kingdom during the two kingdom period.Originally posted by vince69:Brey,
(I might be wrong on this), I thought Isreal (hence the Jews) does not exist until after Jacob (aka Isreal)?
so strictly speaking Abraham/Issac is not a Jew, though they may be forefathers of the Jewish people.
Yes, God's promised Abraham (as in the Bible) is that the blessing/covernant will be given through his child with Sarah.
Actually the father of the jewish people is Abraham, this is where it started from. The deviation occured when Abraham did not follow God's direction. And so indeed the promise made to Abraham was still fulfilled, that his seed would number more than the stars in the sky...
As we look back in history, after Solomon's reign,when his son Rehoboam reigned, an insurrection and rebellion took place. The kingdom was split into two: a) the northern kingdom composed of ten tribes and the b) the southern kingdom composed of two tribes [Judah and Benjamin]
After 150 fifty years of separation the northern Kingdom was sacked and was taken captive by the Assyrians. From here they were scattered all over the face of the earth
Some 80 years after, Babylon took captive the southern KIngdom of Judah......after 70 years some of them were able to return to rebuild the temple, others were scatterd all over the world.
This was the remnant of the nation that constituted Israel during the Lord's time-the people of Judah- Jews they are called. -
Then the tribe of Benjamin leh?Originally posted by Ironside:This was the remnant of the nation that constituted Israel during the Lord's time-the people of Judah- Jews they are called.
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But i think there are remnants of other tribes like Simeon, Levi etc in the southern kingdom also. Must study commentaries.Originally posted by Ironside:Strictly speaking, the Jews are actually the people who lived in Judah while the Israelites were the ones living in the northern Kingdom during the two kingdom period.
As we look back in history, after Solomon's reign,when his son Rehoboam reigned, an insurrection and rebellion took place. The kingdom was split into two: a) the northern kingdom composed of ten tribes and the b) the southern kingdom composed of two tribes [Judah and Benjamin]
After 150 fifty years of separation the northern Kingdom was sacked and was taken captive by the Assyrians. From here they were scattered all over the face of the earth
Some 80 years after, Babylon took captive the southern KIngdom of Judah......after 70 years some of them were able to return to rebuild the temple, others were scatterd all over the world.
This was the remnant of the nation that constituted Israel during the Lord's time-the people of Judah- Jews they are called.