Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:
Indeed, John 10:9 is metaphoric, but the passage relating to the last supper is not.
". . . Whoever eats (Greek: trogon) me will live because of me. . . Also the one who feeds (trogon) on my flesh will have life . . ." (Jn 6 :48-5
The normal word in Greek for "eat" is Phagon but in this passage the author uses Trogon which literally means to crunch or gnaw. It is not just a metaphor. We literally eat Him.
"Very truly unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you." (Jn 6:53)
And we are commanded to!
Yea, Jesus is the Bread from Heaven, and he gave himself to the Apostles to eat in forms of bread and wine, and continues to do so to this day.
SingaporeMacross Statement
“The normal word in Greek for "eat" is Phagon but in this passage the author uses Trogon which literally means to crunch or gnaw. It is not just a metaphor. We literally eat Him.”I wonder what’s the Greek words has to do with this topic here. It is unnecessary.
Whatever the word was used whether the Lord used the word ‘phagon’, ‘trogon’ or ‘esthio’ [which is another word for eat in Greek], all of these in the original means eat.
Trogon means indeed to gnaw and to chew
Phago means to eat, devour, consume. It is used literally in Luke 8:55.
Esthio means to eat, devour and consume. It is used literally in Mark 2:16, Luke 12:45, 1 Cor. 9:7; 11:22; and etc.
The Greek doesn’t have a normal word for eat like what you said about ‘phagon’ as if to make it appear that something different is happening here in this verse.
Continuing:
And so the R.C. says : ‘aha so you agree that we literally devour the body of Christ here, since you agree that these things means in the literal sense!!!!”
Of course not!!!!! All we are saying is that the Lord spoke figuratively here. IsnÂ’t that the essence of figurative language at times? They use literal words to illustrate something else
For example the word ‘
esthioÂ’ in many New Testament passages means to eat, devour and consume physically. Does it mean then that every time the word appears in the Bible we have to interpret it literally ripping it of itÂ’s figurative sense which the author means to convey? Of course not.
Say for example this verse:
Heb 10:27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will
devour [
esthio meaning physically eat, physically consume and physically devour in many places in the New Testament] the adversaries.
The word ‘
devour’ in the Greek is the word ‘
esthien’ coming from the root word ‘
esthioÂ’ which means to physically eat and physically devour in other portions of Scripture. Are we to picture then of the fiery indignation of God as something that has literal teeth and literal pangs and literally munch the apostates of Christianity? Of course not. Context determines the meaning.
Perhaps you will say: “Ah the word used there is ‘esthio’ not ‘trogon’ in John 6, so it’s different.”
Okay letÂ’s see. The words trogon, phagon and esthio are used by the Lord in John 6, here:
Joh 6:50 "This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may
eat [
THE ROOT WORD IS ‘ESTHIO’] of it and not die.
Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you
eat [
AGAIN THE ROOT WORD USED IS ‘ESTHIO’] the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you.
Important rule in Biblical languages: DO NOT FORGET TO LOOK UP THE ROOT WORD OF A WORD IN EITHER HEBREW OR GREEK.
For the word ‘phago’:
Joh 6:51 "I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone
eats [
THE GREEK WORD USED IS ‘PHAGE’ WHICH COMES FROM ‘PHAGO’ WITH A ROOT WORD ‘ESTHIO’]of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world."
And then there’s the word ‘trogon’: Joh 6:54 "Whoever
eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
So what does this statement prove:
". . . Whoever eats (Greek: trogon) me will live because of me. . . Also the one who feeds (trogon) on my flesh will have life . . ." (Jn 6 :48-5
The normal word in Greek for "eat" is Phagon but in this passage the author uses Trogon which literally means to crunch or gnaw. It is not just a metaphor. We literally eat Him.”? Continuing:
what does the Lord Jesus mean with these words:
Joh 6:51 "I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world."
What He means of eating and drinking His blood is appropriating by faith His work on the cross to oneself. This words must not be understood literally but figuratively in a spiritual sense.
DID NOT THE LORD HIMSELF SAID THIS:AFTER MANY DISCIPLES WALKED AWAY FROM HIM BECAUSE OF THIS SEEMINGLY HARD TEACHING OF DRINKING AND EATING HIS FLESH AND BLOOD, HE EXPLAINS:
Joh 6:60
Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, "This is a hard saying; who can understand it?"
61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, "Does this offend you?
62 "What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before?
NOTICE VERSE 63 FOR THE EXPLANATION OF HIS WORDS OF EATING AND DRINKING HIS FLESH AN BLOOD:63 "
It is the Spirit who gives life;
the flesh profits nothing.
The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life.
EATING HIS FLESH PROFITS NOTHING IF THAT’S WHAT THEY UNDERSTOOD HIM TO MEAN. HIS WORD HE HAS JUST SPOKEN ABOUT EATING AND DRINKING HIS FLESH AND BLOOD WERE ‘SPIRIT’ MEANING THEY HAVE TO BE UNDERSTOOD SPIRITUALLY. IT IS THE SPIRIT WHOM HE WILL GIVE THAT WILL GIVE LIFE UPON THOSE WHO WILL BELIEVE IN HIM. LOOK UP JOHN 7:38-39 AND COMPARE IT TO ROMANS 8: 11.Even Saint Augustine whom the Catholic church considers as one of it’s doctors said:
Augustine said, “Believe and you have eaten.”Why? Because he understood that eating and drinking here is a picture of appropriation by faith in Christ.
IsnÂ’t this clear:
Joh 6:35 And Jesus said to them, "
I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.Then 'believe' is juxtapositioned alongside it:
36 "But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do
not believe.
Joh 6:47 "Most assuredly, I say to you,
he who believes in Me has everlasting life.Then bread is positioned after he said this:
48 "
I am the bread of life.
49 "Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead.
50 "This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die.
Look at verse 50, any one who eats of the bread from heaven-which we all know is the Lord Himself-will not die but will live forever verse 51.
IsnÂ’t it parallel with:
Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever
EATS HIS FLESH AND DRINKS HIS BLOOD SHALL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE.”OOPS I’M SORRY I GOT THE TEXT WRONG. IT SHOUD BE:Joh 3:16 "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever
BELIEVES in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Fun.
