A christian who tithes 10% and another who tithes 90%...
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My dear fellow believer breytonhartge so Jesus the Lord Himself said it, that Christians are to tithe..Wow another new scholarship: Yes indeed Jesus mention it but what kind of context, please elaborate further: Is it about "about believers under Grace giving tithes!" So it beat me too,
So sorry..but may I point out that there is a big difference between Giving under obligation and out of Love
In what you quote:In speaking to the scribes and Pharisees, who often made a self-righteous display of strictly keeping some of the smaller points of God's Law, Jesus said: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done [these weightier matters], without leaving the others [carefully tithing] undone" (Matthew 23:23).
From this verse as well as Luke 11: 42 Jesus said that spiritual qualities such as mercy and faith ought to be put ahead of carefully and strictly paying tithes on every little plant that might grow in your garden-especially when that strictness leads to self-righteousness. But Christ said "NOT to leave the other undone"-NOT to fail to pay your full tithes Jesus mentioned about tithes.. yes if you
but under Grace for tithes is out of context..there was never any teaching for the New testament believers to tithe under Grace. paying full tithes is in never in the spirit of Christ! It a rebuke to the pharisees!
as you underlined [carefully tithing] equals or refer to weightier matter/b]: So in actual fact- faith, mercy and justice are not the weightier matters! I think my friend it is a sad and sorry interpretation!
The full tithes intrepretation is quite new to me..i have not heard about it..taught in our churches..it's a first too! Thanks for the verse!
* When I go to heaven, maybe I will confirm with [b]Jesus we should close the subject..
Just to say my last word "a text taken out of context is a pretext"
and "When scriptures makes common sense don't make it nonsense!"
Bye... -
Originally posted by norey:
Then explain this, Jesus said that He came not to abolish the law, but to fulfil it. He lived the law perfectly so that we could have a perfect sacrifice. He also said that until heaven and earth pass away not an iota will be changed. What do you suppose that means. You think just because Jesus came, the OT is no longer relevant? Then how do you describe God? Where do you find out about Him? Even Jesus said, you shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve. What do you suppose that means? How do you serve God if you do not know what He is all about? How do we find out about what pleases God, what makes Him happy etc? If the OT was not relevant, then why would God include it in the bible? For bedtime stories? The whole of the bible is there to teach us about God and His character, God Himself says that He does not change. So if He does not change, why would God vary His requirements in the OT?
My dear fellow believer [b]breytonhartge so Jesus the Lord Himself said it, that Christians are to tithe..Wow another new scholarship: Yes indeed Jesus mention it but what kind of context, please elaborate further: Is it about "about believers under Grace giving tithes!" So it beat me too,
So sorry..but may I point out that there is a big difference between Giving under obligation and out of Love
In what you quote:In speaking to the scribes and Pharisees, who often made a self-righteous display of strictly keeping some of the smaller points of God's Law, Jesus said: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done [these weightier matters], without leaving the others [carefully tithing] undone" (Matthew 23:23).
From this verse as well as Luke 11: 42 Jesus said that spiritual qualities such as mercy and faith ought to be put ahead of carefully and strictly paying tithes on every little plant that might grow in your garden-especially when that strictness leads to self-righteousness. But Christ said "NOT to leave the other undone"-NOT to fail to pay your full tithes Jesus mentioned about tithes.. yes if you
but under Grace for tithes is out of context..there was never any teaching for the New testament believers to tithe under Grace. [/b]
Jesus was first and foremost God's son, He was also a JEW. God's chosen people were JEWS, what do you think then? That if the initial disciples were not exempt from the ways of the JEWs, how much more do we who are adopted sons and daughters have to fit into what God is about. When people get adopted into a family, they get adopted under house rules... not their own, so likewise, we are adopted on God's terms, not ours, true, we have the choice to refuse this adoption, but once adopted, we have to do it God's way not ours...
You have the context of grace totally wrong. The context for grace is grace for the gentiles for our salvation. Not grace to do away with all of the other requirements for living a Christian life. We have grace so that we do not have to work for our SALVATION, but Jesus Himself said, He came so that the law may be fulfilled. That is the reason why so many people out there have the concept of cheap grace.
The grace exists so that in our walk with the Lord AFTER our salvation, we still have the ability to come to Him in repentance because He does not judge our sins as they deserve under the law.
Eph 1:7 (amplified bible)
7In Him we have redemption (deliverance and salvation) through His blood, the remission (forgiveness) of our offenses (shortcomings and trespasses), in accordance with the riches and the generosity of His gracious favor,
Eph2:5 (amplified bible)
5Even when we were dead (slain) by [our own] shortcomings and trespasses, He made us alive together in fellowship and in union with Christ; [He gave us the very life of Christ Himself, the same new life with which He quickened Him, for] it is by grace (His favor and mercy which you did not deserve) that you are saved ([a]delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ's salvation).
It has always been said in the bible that by grace you have been saved, but please direct me to where in the bible it says by grace you can disregard all of God's commandments and ways? -
Originally posted by norey:
Can you even read properly????? Or is your understanding of english impaired? You have now misquoted the bible and warped the word of the Lord. Please read the verse again.
as you underlined [carefully tithing] equals or refer to weightier matter/b]: So in actual fact- faith, mercy and justice are not the weightier matters! I think my friend it is a sad and sorry interpretation!
The full tithes intrepretation is quite new to me..i have not heard about it..taught in our churches..it's a first too! Thanks for the verse!
* When I go to heaven, maybe I will confirm with [b]Jesus we should close the subject..
Just to say my last word "a text taken out of context is a pretext"
and "When scriptures makes common sense don't make it nonsense!"
Bye...
[/b]
Jesus said that the weighter matters were such like faith, mercy and justice but even so, we should not neglect the less weighter matters...
why do you suppose in Mark 4:9
9Then Jesus said, "He who has ears to hear, let him hear." -
Jude 1:4 (Amplified Bible)
4For certain men have crept in stealthily [[a]gaining entrance secretly by a side door]. Their doom was predicted long ago, ungodly (impious, profane) persons who pervert the grace (the spiritual blessing and favor) of our God into lawlessness and wantonness and immorality, and disown and deny our sole Master and Lord, Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).
Norey, then what do you suppose Jude meant when this prophecy was given? What sort of lawlessness do you think this refers to?
Having our redemption in Christ does not mean that the Laws of God do not still operate, it just means that we are exempt from the judgement should be fall in these areas.
God has placed many laws in place which still operate... take for example the law of gravity... you try by your grace to step out of a 10 storey window and lets see you by your grace float... -
My dear fellow believer breytonhartge[b]
I really think this will be a one way dialogue from now..
In the first place I did re-read your writings a few times. I also realise that you make clear interpretations upon different items listed.. but there is no single meaning being read without our bias..you have tithing I have another idea. To accuse me of warp and twisting [b]your words is okay but with God's Word, it is difficult to swallow..
I imagine we are both wrong in attitudes..I apologise first then when you are ready we can communicate...[/b] -
Originally posted by norey:
My dear fellow believer [b]breytonhartge[b]
I really think this will be a one way dialogue from now..
In the first place I did re-read your writings a few times. I also realise that you make clear interpretations upon different items listed.. but there is no single meaning being read without our bias..you have tithing I have another idea. To accuse me of warp and twisting [b]your words is okay but with God's Word, it is difficult to swallow..
I imagine we are both wrong in attitudes..I apologise first then when you are ready we can communicate...[/b][/b]
Matthew 23:23 (New Living Translation)
New Living Translation (NLT)
23"How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest part of your income,[a] but you ignore the important things of the law--justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but you should not leave undone the more important things.
I say you twist God's word because you say that tithing was made the more important weightier matter over mercy, faith and justice, which I did not say, and neither did the bible say... and for you information, I have quoted the verse again. -
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Brey and EH forumers are always ready....
Wait till you sought yourself out and ready to communicate with us.
Cheers -
I hate to keep you all waiting but just to say..thank you again for all the attentions!
I did busily took the time to look up in the Greek then I went to check internet to see the origin of the the tithing practice (wikipedia) and read my old KJV then I must say to my friends here among them a great student of God's word,, I hope he will understand that the KJV is still a version from the autograph And then the amplified a corruption with many funny interpretations?
Alright please understand I admit I did twisted his word to fit mine bias.. so?
I apologises ..is that enough? Sorry again...
Or do you want my poor ME to claim authoritively the Word of God in the New Testament explicitly and clearly erase the old Jewish custom of tithing until when the foolish English scholars translated their own from Old English
teogotha a "tenth" into the KJV and we made it into God's hollowed translated version as it is truly what Jesus said: "tithing is compulsory?obligatory?instituted? in the churches!"
Is that a premise acceptable for debate? -
Originally posted by norey:
Matthew 23:23 (King James Version)
I hate to keep you all waiting but just to say..thank you again for all the attentions!
I did busily took the time to look up in the Greek then I went to check internet to see the origin of the the tithing practice (wikipedia) and read my old KJV then I must say to my friends here among them a great student of God's word,, I hope he will understand that the KJV is still a version from the autograph And then the amplified a corruption with many funny interpretations?
[b]Alright please understand I admit I did twisted his word to fit mine bias.. so?
I apologises ..is that enough? Sorry again...
Or do you want my poor ME to claim authoritively the Word of God in the New Testament explicitly and clearly erase the old Jewish custom of tithing until when the foolish English scholars translated their own from Old English
teogotha a "tenth" into the KJV and we made it into God's hollowed translated version as it is truly what Jesus said: "tithing is compulsory?obligatory?instituted? in the churches!"
Is that a premise acceptable for debate?
[/b]
23Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
How is this version any different? -
Hey brey, i suggest don't go further. Let this topic rest on our end.
I couldn't catch the scholar's post liao.
It's super KSM...
Cheers
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OK lah... I agree with the super KSM... I will let it rest here...Originally posted by M©+square:Hey brey, i suggest don't go further. Let this topic rest on our end.
I couldn't catch the scholar's post liao.
It's super KSM...
Cheers
Hope you are well MC... -
Chicken and duck talk....buey tahan.Originally posted by breytonhartge:OK lah... I agree with the super KSM... I will let it rest here...
Hope you are well MC...
I'm well. Same to you.
Cheers -
See the Bible gateaway ..it says in the NIV New International version
23"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
I suppose you have the means to see that it is a kind of Jewish practice to tithe or contribute a tenth of spices - mint, dill and cummin...I used all of them before for cooking they give a tenth.
Would it be any difference you say? Why have not the disciples follow it thru when they specifically meet to initiate some rules for the Baby Jerusalem church? In Acts I means?
Yes,Jesus did said to not neglect the former! giving the tenth ie. Why didn't he said that it is as weightier but just without neglecting the former< giving the tenth? or really He refers to the weightier matters of the heart matters= the Laws at its core? righteousness(justice) Mercy(God's forgiveness and acceptance) faithfulness( or is it faith, a creed? or the faithfulness of God in keeping his promises to his people)
My own understanding of the context that the core of the Law plus the the ceremonial laws of washings, sacrifices, offerings etc are for teaching them to relate to the Holiness of a fearful but merciful and All-Powerful God > They were chosen to represent Him as a people but they failed even to accept the actual Reality of God in Person when Christ|Messiah came..John wrote they received him NOT.. or received him not but to them who received they became the children of God punishments. Tithing was to be given under the Law's obligations and never under Grace. Why did Jesus tell them Pharisee and scribes to give their obligations? the tenth of spices even? why? Simply to the Pharisee and the scribes.. U see? Not us <believers>
Thanks ...for attention? -
Sorry lah.. make you buey tahan...Originally posted by M©+square:Chicken and duck talk....buey tahan.
I'm well. Same to you.
Cheers
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hanks and goodnite.. I got to sleep too..
enjoy all you people gangling up to bully newbies hehehhehehe
The pleasure is also mine!Sorry lah.. make you buey tahan... 2 -
Originally posted by norey:
I think you should introduce yourself. And maybe write a statement of belief or something.
hanks and goodnite.. I got to sleep too..
enjoy all you people gangling up to bully newbies hehehhehehe
The pleasure is also mine!Sorry lah.. [b]make you buey tahan... 2
[/b] -
Dont bully NOrey leh.
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norey is the clone of alien2..... he is NOT a newbie!
I don't think we are ganging up on norey. just too much ksm in norey's thread that confuses the reader. -
Chin Eng our beautiful easy to follow gal.. I am guessing you are just a pretty sweet girl and a girl with a smile....see Eng is the girlie part of my name too... we are not newbies but someone suggest it that I was... period.. so I follow the thread ..call me a liar U smartie again?
hehehehhe!
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Originally posted by norey:
Chin Eng our beautiful easy to follow gal.. I am guessing you are just a pretty sweet girl and a girl with a smile....see [b]Eng is the girlie part of my name too... we are not newbies but someone suggest it that I was... period.. so I follow the thread ..call me a liar U smartie again?
hehehehhe! [/b]
cannot tahan...
I did not call you a liar because of the "newbie" thing, I called you a liar because you and alien2 are the same person.... hiding under another nick without stating it clearly makes you a fake.
Example NeonTetra is NT2..... John the Baptist is Repented John..... jnwk is Happy Harvest.....
These people were honest enough to admit to their change of nick.... not you, dude!
The girl thing? Up to you lah!!! The other folks here in EH know who I am... that's enough for me.
You know, you have a gift in taking things totally out of context. While I have profiled you spot-on, you have no idea who I am...... but that's not really important is it? -
Originally posted by norey:
almost fell off my chair,"Chin Eng our beautiful easy to follow gal"????
Chin Eng our beautiful easy to follow gal.. I am guessing you are just a pretty sweet girl and a girl with a smile....see [b]Eng is the girlie part of my name too... we are not newbies but someone suggest it that I was... period.. so I follow the thread ..call me a liar U smartie again?
hehehehhe! [/b] you are really very funny. -
buay tahan..? You wrote:
I did not call [b]you a liar because of the "newbie" thing, I called you a liar because you and alien2 are the same person.... hiding under another nick without stating it clearly makes you a fake.
Example NeonTetra is NT2..... John the Baptist is Repented John..... jnwk is Happy Harvest.....
These people were honest enough to admit to their change of nick.... not you, dude!
The girl thing? Up to you lah!!! The other folks here in EH know who I am... that's enough for me.
You know, you have a gift in taking things totally out of context. While I have profiled you spot-on, you have no idea who I am...... but that's not really important is it?[/b]
:::::.....
Actually I like to communicate with you.. you waht you are I don't care much..just talk..I don't hide my ID whether it's Alien2 or Norey or another a.k.a.. anyone with some sense could figure it out easily..
or just take a look at ME ugly pic and resume at
http://www.sgwiki.com/wiki/Alien_Own_User's_Page so U hide under a a.k.a. so.. it keep us guessing..LOr
But the point is..don't call people STUPID OR ....OR BEING A liar..it's a moral issue, understand? Please...we can living wi many a.k.a.s and some one wanna login with another there is no objection from Sgforum, or is there a limit? -
In your PM to me on 24 Jan timed at 8.40 pm, you wrote:
In the second para: two points:
Are u saying I am a liar? well just to tell you that I was never in position for any job other than a housewife, isn't that okay?
BTW I heard housewives or househusbands only work in the house, there is no pay working on being a homemaker, is there is taht so funny>hehehehe
You all are great but when U brunch up like this: I leave..since there is no place for newbie to caht up!
No offence, I understand U may a gentlelady or man, make no difference when I leave anyway!
Goto read about my story: I' ve alway been busy since my last job thirty five or 40 yrs ago..
http://www.sgwiki.com/wiki/Alien_Own_User's_Page
1. EH folks "brunch up" against you.....
2. There is no place for "newbie" to chat up....
In point 2, the implication is that EH is no place for a newbie like yourself to chat up.
You are obviously not a newbie, and under no circumstance did you state that you had another nick. Therefore you lied (perhaps unwittingly) about your status because you made no attempt to correct the misconception, leading the readers into thinking that you are truly a newbie.....
The synergy of a forum like this depends a lot on whom we are addressing to. Clones are typically condemned, not just here in EH but in each topic.
There are many good reasons why some forumites hold double identity:
1. Loss of password - Happy Harvest?
2. Change of mindset and refusal to be identified under the previus nick - Repented John
3. Left and return (and maybe forget password) - NT2
You don't have to like what I said, but it's the truth! -
I like what you tried to say it..but the truth is a subjective matters!
Tell me what is a newbie? a first timer? a new one un-used to IT chat or forum? or what let US clarify this point first! okay?
Can that be a junior member? Show me how long ago was me here?
Tell me if you did NEVER enjoy the fun poking at a junior member?
Is it obligatory that I can only login as "norey" and no other?
Hey, I can call you smartie, I hope it is okay or I sure have to apologises again and eat my humble pie ? wau lau ..feel like goto to go again..or I will p...off