A christian who tithes 10% and another who tithes 90%...
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M©+square sorry about my comments..it's written with the understanding
I understand U do need some refreshing and going back to bed
in the early mornings..
Bye..have to go now!
::doing my wife's orders
see U next time i 'll be no more newbie?
condescending.....bye.... -
Originally posted by norey:
its Corban instead,
correction : [b]korban
It's a Jewish custom of saying everything belong to him belong to God that's the best to cheat giving to hsi old parents= providing for their needs! an example![/b]
The different between Corban and Tithe, is that the former is something that is being set aside (still in the person's own procession) while the latter is given away (no longer in the person's procession).
(Easton Bible Dictionary)
Corban - a Hebrew word adopted into the Greek of the New Testament and left untranslated. It occurs only once (Mark_7:11). It means a gift or offering consecrated to God. Anything over which this word was once pronounced was irrevocably dedicated to the temple. Land, however, so dedicated might be redeemed before the year of jubilee (Lev_27:16-24). Our Lord condemns the Pharisees for their false doctrine, inasmuch as by their traditions they had destroyed the commandment which requires children to honour their father and mother, teaching them to find excuse from helping their parents by the device of pronouncing "Corban" over their goods, thus reserving them to their own selfish use.
Tithe - a tenth of the produce of the earth consecrated and set apart for special purposes. The dedication of a tenth to God was recognized as a duty before the time of Moses. Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek (Gen_14:20; Heb_7:6); and Jacob vowed unto the Lord and said, "Of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee."
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thought I am the only one awake, but at least I am better off, got to sleep around 3am (to be awoken at 7am)Originally posted by M©+square:Eh i steady hor...didn't sleep from last might till now.
Abit Tao Hong liao. haha
Cheers
have a good rest
cheers -
The latter is a covenant.
Former is could be done out of specific word/command from God or out of Love offering.
Good day!!! Time to koon.....really!!!! -
Originally posted by norey:
Suddenly brey become pastor.....
Moderator Pastor [b]breytonhartge..
Thanks.. how much revelation do I need about common sense and cheerful giving?
I never work for forty years, everything i have in my home is GIVEN by neighbours, friends and many well wishers who are not boasting about their giving.. just they give out of heart goodness, I received thankfully..my HDB was given by my father in law!
Giving is a blessing granted by Almighty to feel good about it
Receiving is better and I share too
God does not need money to survive!
[/b]
norey, I certainly hope you are not being sarcastic.....
God blesses each of us differently. The fact that you've been given all these things does not mean that each of us are blessed the way you are.
As I'd said earlier, give whatever you want, be happy with it. -
I think norey is getting to go shopping for his wife..he's getting older after seeing five doggie summers and winters here in hot Spore..He probably won't be around to see that moderator is no pastor..
But who say Christians must give,
* don't we all love to be kids and receive..
i rather receive too..
anytime! -
Originally posted by alien2:
your friend ah?
I think [b]norey is getting to go shopping for his wife..he's getting older after seeing five doggie summers and winters here in hot Spore..He probably won't be around to see that moderator is no pastor..
But who say Christians must give,
* don't we all love to be kids and receive..
i rather receive too.. anytime![/b] -
Originally posted by norey:
John 3:27
Moderator Pastor [b]breytonhartge..
Thanks.. how much revelation do I need about common sense and cheerful giving?
I never work for forty years, everything i have in my home is GIVEN by neighbours, friends and many well wishers who are not boasting about their giving.. just they give out of heart goodness, I received thankfully..my HDB was given by my father in law!
Giving is a blessing granted by Almighty to feel good about it
Receiving is better and I share too
God does not need money to survive!
[/b]
27 John answered and said, “A man can receive nothing unless it has been given to him from heaven.
1 Corinthians 10:26
26 for “the earth is the LORD’s, and all its fullness.”
Norey, guess what... everything you ever have or will have is owned by guess who? God. In giving the tithe back to God we are not giving of what we have but are simply returning to God what is already His.
You have never worked for 40 years? Unless you have a diability or something, don't even get started... and with pastors driving nice cars, so what, like vince said, if they can afford it, then so be it. How did you know that before they went into ministry that they did not have a good paying job? Just because pastors are pastors, are they meant to be poor? Can they not also have investments and etc... to generate other outside income? Don't be too quick to judge. Like what you said, everything that you have was given to you... so how do you know that the nice car was not given to a pastor?
PS don't patronize me... it's rude
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this! I agree!Originally posted by breytonhartge:PS don't patronize me... it's rude
yeah.... come to think of it.... why isn't he working for 40 yrs....??? -
Originally posted by alien2:
Luke 6:38
I think [b]norey is getting to go shopping for his wife..he's getting older after seeing five doggie summers and winters here in hot Spore..He probably won't be around to see that moderator is no pastor..
But who say Christians must give,
* don't we all love to be kids and receive..
i rather receive too.. anytime![/b]
Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."
Acts 20:35
In everything I did, I showed you that by this kind of hard work we must help the weak, remembering the words the Lord Jesus himself said: 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.' " -
Anyone recieved his Private Message?
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Who's PM?Originally posted by M©+square:Anyone recieved his Private Message? -
norey'sOriginally posted by breytonhartge:Who's PM? -
who was he supposed to PM?Originally posted by M©+square:norey's -
nopeOriginally posted by M©+square:Anyone recieved his Private Message?
I am guessing that you had -
Yup i did.
Weird! -
Thanks Alien2 You guess right..I bicycle to AMK to carry all the CNY groceries for my wife..
BTW all the wonderful people here.. I just came back for a moment and I miss so much here, wau lau, I'm not exactly a topic for conversation..
The topic is on giving, eh? In particualr giving to who? God He does not need money or anything to live on, to church yes tithing..I hardly give any money to church as tithes since I hardly had any cash in my pocket at most times when I attend church. But does that means I am not elligle to be a member? I am not interested to be one exactly..though I am 100 per cent a Christian..
Besides what is a church? A membership roll that's an expensive one if a person have to give ten per cent out of his 100 dollars' pay packet, its ten dollar to survive! for the poor guy who needed the whole pay!
If his pay slip show $10,000 he's can afford more to give than $1,000 because he does not need so much to survive..<$9,000 per month!> I believe your folks have A calculating God just like the PAP Garmen.. they taxes the rich and the poor but the personal income per cent is .3%. what ? someone can tell me? How much for coporate< 3%> and how much for the poor man on the street..I will never be a Christian if I have to give according to tithes or what ever scriptural injunction..I am like the poor widow "giving my mite whenever I can..!" Do I have to give an account of my mites? hehehehheh! -
Originally posted by norey:
Hi
Thanks Alien2 You guess right..I bicycle to AMK to carry all the CNY groceries for my wife..
BTW all the wonderful people here.. I just came back for a moment and I miss so much here, wau lau, I'm not exactly a topic for conversation..
The topic is on giving, eh? In particualr giving to who? God He does not need money or anything to live on, to church yes tithing..I hardly give any money to church as tithes since I hardly had any cash in my pocket at most times when I attend church. But does that means I am not elligle to be a member? I am not interested to be one exactly..though I am 100 per cent a Christian..
Besides what is a church? A membership roll that's an expensive one if a person have to give ten per cent out of his 100 dollars' pay packet, its ten dollar to survive! for the poor guy who needed the whole pay!
If his pay slip show $10,000 he's can afford more to give than $1,000 because he does not need so much to survive..<$9,000 per month!> I believe your folks have [b]A calculating God just like the PAP Garmen.. they taxes the rich and the poor but the personal income per cent is .3%. what ? someone can tell me? How much for coporate< 3%> and how much for the poor man on the street..I will never be a Christian if I have to give according to tithes or what ever scriptural injunction..I am like the poor widow "giving my mite whenever I can..!" Do I have to give an account of my mites? hehehehheh! [/b]
yes, you are right that God do not need our money, but when we give (tithes/offering) to the church (His storehouse)
mal 3:10, we give them with God in mind (as if to the Lord), this is to honor Him who had first given to us. (the principle of tithing have to be correct first).
on who give more, who give less, personally don't think its really matters, whether you tithe/don't tithe, God still loves you.
This is how I see God.
I gave my daughter 1 packet of sweets, its hers now, whether she choose to share it with me, as her father, I still loved her. I will be please if she shoose to share, but if she choose not to, I won't be angry too.
In the same way, God is our source, He gave us all the we have, whether we choose to give back a tenth (or whatever amount) to Him, He still love us. If we choose to give Him (out of our own free will), He will be please, if not he will love us.
Its ok to go to Church without giving, until you are ready, my susgestion to you is, just go there to receive and experience God.
May God Bless You Richly. -
Originally posted by norey:
Norey,
Thanks Alien2 You guess right..I bicycle to AMK to carry all the CNY groceries for my wife..
BTW all the wonderful people here.. I just came back for a moment and I miss so much here, wau lau, I'm not exactly a topic for conversation..
The topic is on giving, eh? In particualr giving to who? God He does not need money or anything to live on, to church yes tithing..I hardly give any money to church as tithes since I hardly had any cash in my pocket at most times when I attend church. But does that means I am not elligle to be a member? I am not interested to be one exactly..though I am 100 per cent a Christian..
Besides what is a church? A membership roll that's an expensive one if a person have to give ten per cent out of his 100 dollars' pay packet, its ten dollar to survive! for the poor guy who needed the whole pay!
If his pay slip show $10,000 he's can afford more to give than $1,000 because he does not need so much to survive..<$9,000 per month!> I believe your folks have [b]A calculating God just like the PAP Garmen.. they taxes the rich and the poor but the personal income per cent is .3%. what ? someone can tell me? How much for coporate< 3%> and how much for the poor man on the street..I will never be a Christian if I have to give according to tithes or what ever scriptural injunction..I am like the poor widow "giving my mite whenever I can..!" Do I have to give an account of my mites? hehehehheh! [/b]
I personally think that you're going out of point.
We didn't put across that no tithes, no membership kind of topic.
The membership of church is just a temporal security compared to the eternal security you have in Christ.
Who's interested of the debate of whether a Christian should give tithes to consider a Christian or not?
'I give because I obey, I give because I believe what i have in my life were all not by chance, but by grace. All were given and provided by Him. And none belonged to me.'
Yes God need no money. However God's house needs to function to serve believers and non believers, to be a testimony onto the world.
When believers have faith in God and accepts the saving grace. He/she is a 100% christian.
Tithing is the attitude of the heart.
Let me simply put this across.
Kington is a Christian, He is a fervent 'worshipper' in a particular church
Kington don't do tithings though he recieves $10,000 every month.
Kington do not give during offering sessions.
He doesn't contribute to Church in any sense.
Kington is still a Christian.
Whether a person gives 0.1% or 90% of their paycheck to church,
They are all Christians solely because of their faith.
'I give because I obey, I give because I believe what i have in my life were not by chance, but by grace. All were given and provided by Him and none belonged to me. I acknowledge that God is the source and provider of all things.' - bottomline: Heart condition of a Christian.
1a If a Christian who claimed to love God and have faith in God and yet unwilling to tithe a tenth of his $100 pay to Him has problem with his foundation on God.
1b Likewise if a Christian who is unwilling to give a tenth of $10,000 of his paycheck have problems with his foundation.
Tithing have very similiar purpose as of Firstfruit Offering.
Hope we are getting closer to the topic.
Cheers -
Thanks Vince 69
You wrote:
Hi
yes, you are right that God do not need our money, but when we give (tithes/offering) to the church (His storehouse)
mal 3:10, we give them with God in mind (as if to the Lord), this is to honor Him who had first given to us. (the principle of tithing have to be correct first).
on who give more, who give less, personally don't think its really matters, whether you tithe/don't tithe, God still loves you.
This is how I see God.
I gave my daughter 1 packet of sweets, its hers now, whether she choose to share it with me, as her father, I still loved her. I will be please if she shoose to share, but if she choose not to, I won't be angry too.
In the same way, God is our source, He gave us all the we have, whether we choose to give back a tenth (or whatever amount) to Him, He still love us. If we choose to give Him (out of our own free will), He will be please, if not he will love us.
Its ok to go to Church without giving, until you are ready, my susgestion to you is, just go there to receive and experience God.
Would you know that there are churches who do not have collection plates or bags for offering? Their members give in secret and designated money for needs and such without having once to pass the plate around? I have never seen their offering bags or plates! They had none!I am not criticising other churches and I know their Pastors needed to be paid, and i do support them too morally speaking< they did a job, and they get their pay accordingly>but it is important to know that your tithes and offerings to the Lord seemed to be out of a grudging one if God is imagined to require our goods< Yes He is Lord of all things>Must he insists that we are to tithe our money? It was true with ancient Israel, are we Jews or Christians? Anyone can gave a percentage of their income faithfully - let it be according to THE HEART and not the LAW!
This is not a new issue, even in the New Testament epistles of Paul ours today seems to be like Charity shows!
Imagine how grudgingly we give, has it ever occur to anyone that God don't need money to survive? I can go to worship God without theat bother because worship includes giving, but it's always from the heart that counts! -
Thanks enlightening ..here is what I read=
I personally think that you're going out of point.
We didn't put across that no tithes, no membership kind of topic.
The membership of church is just a temporal security compared to the eternal security you have in Christ.
Who's interested of the debate of whether a Christian should give tithes to consider a Christian or not?
'I give because I obey, I give because I believe what i have in my life were all not by chance, but by grace. All were given and provided by Him. And none belonged to me.'
Yes God need no money. However God's house needs to function to serve believers and non believers, to be a testimony onto the world.
When believers have faith in God and accepts the saving grace. He/she is a 100% christian.
Tithing is the attitude of the heart.
Let me simply put this across.
Kington is a Christian, He is a fervent 'worshipper' in a particular church
Kington don't do tithings though he recieves $10,000 every month.
Kington do not give during offering sessions.
He doesn't contribute to Church in any sense.
Kington is still a Christian.
Whether a person gives 0.1% or 90% of their paycheck to church,
They are all Christians solely because of their faith.
'I give because I obey, I give because I believe what i have in my life were not by chance, but by grace. All were given and provided by Him and none belonged to me. I acknowledge that God is the source and provider of all things.' - bottomline: Heart condition of a Christian.
1a If a Christian who claimed to love God and have faith in God and yet unwilling to tithe a tenth of his $100 pay to Him has problem with his foundation on God.
1b Likewise if a Christian who is unwilling to give a tenth of $10,000 of his paycheck have problems with his foundation.
Tithing have very similiar purpose as of Firstfruit Offering.
Hope we are getting closer to the topic.
Cheers
My friend and fellow believer in the Lord,
Cheers < I hardly drink, but cheers too!>
It's agreeable to your personal opinion about what I think..but to be out of point is to tell me that I am wrong in logic or missing the mark! Don't too quick to judge! Just I also think you are dogmatically correct - perhaps tell me exactly< if you don't mind> if I mention to anyone
Tithing is NOT the attitude of the heart. So I agreed!
just as the Pharisee go to his temple and pray with that attitude of heart...
I suppose people who tithe do it in secret too - so I apologises
Here is a paradox of logic.. did he do out of RIGHT heart or LEFT heart?
I think the point is he was wrong in the heart..Got it!
Most people who tithe did it right if they faithfullly do it unto the Lord.. yet others did it out of duty, grudge, etc.. I am not judging, the scriptures had plenty of evidences for it! Read for yourself the epistles of Paul when mentioning about the topic of giving among some believers as compared with those brethen at Macedonia! -
Originally posted by norey:
Norey,
Thanks enlightening ..here is what I read=
[b]I personally think that you're going out of point.
We didn't put across that no tithes, no membership kind of topic.
The membership of church is just a temporal security compared to the eternal security you have in Christ.
Who's interested of the debate of whether a Christian should give tithes to consider a Christian or not?
'I give because I obey, I give because I believe what i have in my life were all not by chance, but by grace. All were given and provided by Him. And none belonged to me.'
Yes God need no money. However God's house needs to function to serve believers and non believers, to be a testimony onto the world.
When believers have faith in God and accepts the saving grace. He/she is a 100% christian.
Tithing is the attitude of the heart.
Let me simply put this across.
Kington is a Christian, He is a fervent 'worshipper' in a particular church
Kington don't do tithings though he recieves $10,000 every month.
Kington do not give during offering sessions.
He doesn't contribute to Church in any sense.
Kington is still a Christian.
Whether a person gives 0.1% or 90% of their paycheck to church,
They are all Christians solely because of their faith.
'I give because I obey, I give because I believe what i have in my life were not by chance, but by grace. All were given and provided by Him and none belonged to me. I acknowledge that God is the source and provider of all things.' - bottomline: Heart condition of a Christian.
1a If a Christian who claimed to love God and have faith in God and yet unwilling to tithe a tenth of his $100 pay to Him has problem with his foundation on God.
1b Likewise if a Christian who is unwilling to give a tenth of $10,000 of his paycheck have problems with his foundation.
Tithing have very similiar purpose as of Firstfruit Offering.
Hope we are getting closer to the topic.
Cheers
My friend and fellow believer in the Lord,
Cheers < I hardly drink, but cheers too!>
It's agreeable to your personal opinion about what I think..but to be out of point is to tell me that I am wrong in logic or missing the mark! Don't too quick to judge! Just I also think you are dogmatically correct - perhaps tell me exactly< if you don't mind> if I mention to anyone
Tithing is NOT the attitude of the heart. So I agreed!
just as the Pharisee go to his temple and pray with that attitude of heart...
I suppose people who tithe do it in secret too - so I apologises
Here is a paradox of logic.. did he do out of RIGHT heart or LEFT heart?
I think the point is he was wrong in the heart..Got it!
Most people who tithe did it right if they faithfullly do it unto the Lord.. yet others did it out of duty, grudge, etc.. I am not judging, the scriptures had plenty of evidences for it! Read for yourself the epistles of Paul when mentioning about the topic of giving among some believers as compared with those brethen at Macedonia!
[/b]
I think you miss the point. Ultimately, what does GOD say? Not paul, but God?
Search the scriptures and see what God says....
Cheers -
So I must have miss all the pointsso sad..
BTW I read scriptures here about collection mentioned by Paul
I Corinthians 16-
Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2.On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. 3.Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem. 4.If it seems advisable for me to go also, they will accompany me.
Collections:I wonder why he never mentioned about tithes and offerings? In all his letters? Or Jesus: did he mentioned about tithes and offerings?
I needed enlightenment please? anyone! Greek scholars? perhaps! -
Originally posted by norey:
So I must have miss all the pointsso sad..
BTW I read scriptures here about collection mentioned by Paul
I Corinthians 16-
Now about the [b]collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2.On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. 3.Then, when I arrive, I will give letters of introduction to the men you approve and send them with your gift to Jerusalem. 4.If it seems advisable for me to go also, they will accompany me.
Collections:I wonder why he never mentioned about tithes and offerings? In all his letters? Or Jesus: did he mentioned about tithes and offerings?
I needed enlightenment please? anyone! Greek scholars? perhaps!
In speaking to the scribes and Pharisees, who often made a self-righteous display of strictly keeping some of the smaller points of God's Law, Jesus said: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done [these weightier matters], without leaving the others [carefully tithing] undone" (Matthew 23:23).
From this verse as well as Luke 11: 42 Jesus said that spiritual qualities such as mercy and faith ought to be put ahead of carefully and strictly paying tithes on every little plant that might grow in your garden-especially when that strictness leads to self-righteousness. But Christ said "NOT to leave the other undone"-NOT to fail to pay your full tithes as God has commanded!
[/b] -
In spite of the length of rebuttals and counter-rebuttals, I have to agree with MC and brey.... norey seems out of point. After reading through more than a couple of times, I still don't get what his point is..... seems that everyone's agreeing on the same thing yet want to rephrase each other's words for the heck of it.....
Just one question: if norey hadn't worked for 40 yrs? Can we safely assume that he is more than 60 yrs old considering that a normal adult will need to start work right after national service? If that being so, is it possible for a person to remain jobless for so long yet continue to enjoy having a lifelihood offered to him? As brey may have already mentioned, a person not working for 40 yrs is possibly an invalid.... but seeing that norey can cycle to AMK to deliver CNY stuff we can safely discount the disability angle.
Hmmmm.... must be one of the greater mysteries of life.....