Danger of the occult
-
and why would that worry us believers? My Father in heaven owns the cattle on a thousand hills.... and all the earth and the universe.Originally posted by maggot:Occult is any religion that drains money from believers
The more worrying thing about the occult is that it takes souls away from heaven. -
Sadly it is about the church and people also.Originally posted by breytonhartge:don't look at man, look to GOD, speak to Him and ask Him to show you who He really is. I have and will always maintain, Christianity is a personal relationship with God, not the Church or the people in the Church. It is all about you and God, no one else.
Your tithes go mainly to the church, which you may disapprove of. You think the money goes to God? -
The bible talks about the real kind of witchcraft and wizardry bah? Maybe the kind the magicians of the Egyptian court practised against Moses?Originally posted by breytonhartge:It is not about whether the spells work or do not work in real life, it is about the spirit behind these things. The bible tells us that witchcraft and wizadry are definitely no nos...
And the awesome magic by Simon Magnus. -
In my opinion, you are right up to a point. Spirits are behind everything from, a fantasy novel to an advertising to enjoying life. Spirits entice you to try new things, either in the form of a movie or the desire to upgrade your car. Can you safely say that when we look at an advertising for the latest gadget or the newest condo is NOT a temptation from the spirit world?Originally posted by breytonhartge:It is not about whether the spells work or do not work in real life, it is about the spirit behind these things. The bible tells us that witchcraft and wizadry are definitely no nos...
Strictly speaking, we live in a world engulfed by spirits. The only escape is resurrection of the body. But when we are in this world, can we shun everything (like the Amish community)? If we can't, then the only way is to build a strong mental (as well as spiritual) fortitude to allow us to live (an in many ways, mix with) among non-Believers.
I guess the standard for shunning "witchcraft and wizardry" has to be firm, if your stand for HP is such (which I respect), then you stand for Chronicles of Narnia as well as LOTR should also be as such. Going beyond this, the same stand should be held for Snow White and Sleeping Beauty - the fact that these are Disney cartoon should play no part in the stand.
Also we must avoid Journey to the West or Feng Shen Bang (Transl: the ordaination of the gods). It is understood by the literary world the such Chinese classics are written as political satires.
Anyone having a strong stand on fantasy novels should also have a strong stand on a Robert Ludlum novel or a Agatha Christie mystery, afterall sorcery and witchcraft is not a greater sin than murder and mayhem. -
deleted by CE. dbl post
-
then why, Johnnie boy, do you bother to apologise....?
Bcos if i sound like i was religion bashing, which i am not, so I apologise for the tone. -
spells, goblins, harry, lonewolf ?..... perhaps all these are not so much dangerous than the "Cult of the Self" or "Pride".
-
God is in our own heart, so it doesn't matter whether or not I give God another chance. I believe he will enlighten and guide me when I am lost. And it doesn't matter which one guides me. Be it Taoism gods or Christian god, they are there to guide and enlighten.Originally posted by Repented John:I really apologise for what these fakes have done to you. But wont you give God another chance?
It's not about chance, it's about bad impression. Being with these Christians made me see another side of them.
-
But man are the ones who are spreading the Gospel, as my Christian friend says. It is through man that you know about God.Originally posted by breytonhartge:don't look at man, look to GOD, speak to Him and ask Him to show you who He really is. I have and will always maintain, Christianity is a personal relationship with God, not the Church or the people in the Church. It is all about you and God, no one else.
My heart was initially opened to receive God. But these Christians made me close the door. I have no intention of opening it again.
As the saying goes, once bitten, twice shy. I won't allow the same mistake to be repeated to prevent myself from falling into other worlds which I will regret if I found out it is wrong. -
It's not like that, It's because you have a unique way of interpreting your subjects.Originally posted by Repented John:Bcos if i sound like i was religion bashing, which i am not, so I apologise for the tone.
Cheers -
Have you heard the Wiccan Rede before? Those who profess it are forbidden from harming others or they will get their punishment threefold. Just look at my signature and you will know what I am talking about.Originally posted by Repented John:I am not religion bashing all right ok? I was speaking about witchcraft & the likes. I was speaking from personal experience. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Yes, what is sacred to one might not be sacred to another. I apologise humbly. -
It is actually not through man that you know God, it is through man that you hear about God, to know God, you have got to work on that yourself.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:But man are the ones who are spreading the Gospel, as my Christian friend says. It is through man that you know about God.
My heart was initially opened to receive God. But these Christians made me close the door. I have no intention of opening it again.
As the saying goes, once bitten, twice shy. I won't allow the same mistake to be repeated to prevent myself from falling into other worlds which I will regret if I found out it is wrong.
If you want to close the door, you are free to do so, but it would be a shame as God has so many wonderful things planned for you. Don't allow your initial bad experience to keep you away from God. This is one time it would do good to disregard this saying.
Trust God, not man and you will not go wrong. The bible says that God Himself will be your teacher, not man, so if you want to really know about God, just talk to Him. If you are truly seeking, you will hear from Him, what have you got to loose? Just talk to Him and not man. -
Then like that have to stop watching or reading about most of the novels or movies or tv dramas in the world.Originally posted by Chin Eng:In my opinion, you are right up to a point. Spirits are behind everything from, a fantasy novel to an advertising to enjoying life. Spirits entice you to try new things, either in the form of a movie or the desire to upgrade your car. Can you safely say that when we look at an advertising for the latest gadget or the newest condo is NOT a temptation from the spirit world?
Strictly speaking, we live in a world engulfed by spirits. The only escape is resurrection of the body. But when we are in this world, can we shun everything (like the Amish community)? If we can't, then the only way is to build a strong mental (as well as spiritual) fortitude to allow us to live (an in many ways, mix with) among non-Believers.
I guess the standard for shunning "witchcraft and wizardry" has to be firm, if your stand for HP is such (which I respect), then you stand for Chronicles of Narnia as well as LOTR should also be as such. Going beyond this, the same stand should be held for Snow White and Sleeping Beauty - the fact that these are Disney cartoon should play no part in the stand.
Also we must avoid Journey to the West or Feng Shen Bang (Transl: the ordaination of the gods). It is understood by the literary world the such Chinese classics are written as political satires.
Anyone having a strong stand on fantasy novels should also have a strong stand on a Robert Ludlum novel or a Agatha Christie mystery, afterall sorcery and witchcraft is not a greater sin than murder and mayhem. -
The difference between HP and Narnia is this..Originally posted by laurence82:Then like that have to stop watching or reading about most of the novels or movies or tv dramas in the world.
HP makes witchcraft good and it normalizes it so that it is accpeted easily by society...
Narnia, is about Jesus who died for us... and here the witch is potrayed as bad... which if you are a Christian, it should be that way. -
Luckily, the rest of the world aint christians, thank goodness there is no ban on HP
-
Narnia and Jesus . what's the link?Originally posted by breytonhartge:Narnia, is about Jesus who died for us... and here the witch is potrayed as bad... which if you are a Christian, it should be that way. -
I don't mean that through man we get to know God. I mean, it is through the Christians who are spreading the Gospel that I get to know about God, or rather, I hear about God.Originally posted by breytonhartge:It is actually not through man that you know God, it is through man that you hear about God, to know God, you have got to work on that yourself.
If you want to close the door, you are free to do so, but it would be a shame as God has so many wonderful things planned for you. Don't allow your initial bad experience to keep you away from God. This is one time it would do good to disregard this saying.
Trust God, not man and you will not go wrong. The bible says that God Himself will be your teacher, not man, so if you want to really know about God, just talk to Him. If you are truly seeking, you will hear from Him, what have you got to loose? Just talk to Him and not man.
The bad experience that I had is partly why I don't want to convert. Christians who don't like Catholics is another reason why I had no wish to convert. I am brought up in Singapore, where religious and racial harmony is deeply rooted in me. I have no wish to be with these groups of people (surprisingly, there's a lot). It is going against my principles of maintaining harmony within religious and racial groups. At the least, I have not met anybody in my own religion (buddhism) to be that extreme. The last reason is there is too many conflicting information. One says this, the other one says that. Not only so, one book have this version, another book have another version. The Internet also offers lots of interpretations for Christianity. All of them are correct in their own way (they are not occult, I have to clarify, but it's their conflicting views that is confusing me) -
wah .. your semantics very powerful .. "know God" and "know about God".Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:I don't mean that through man we get to know God. I mean, it is through the Christians who are spreading the Gospel that I get to know about God, or rather, I hear about God.
thumbs up.
-
religion really F**ks people up. they told you not to masterbate. But how many really listen?
-
The real reason why Christians are like that, and Buddhists aren't, is 'cos the Christian place Truth as number one. If you believe in the wrong truth .. you still go to hell .. so you see the importance of truth?Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:The bad experience that I had is partly why I don't want to convert. Christians who don't like Catholics is another reason why I had no wish to convert. I am brought up in Singapore, where religious and racial harmony is deeply rooted in me. I have no wish to be with these groups of people (surprisingly, there's a lot). It is going against my principles of maintaining harmony within religious and racial groups. At the least, I have not met anybody in my own religion (buddhism) to be that extreme. The last reason is there is too many conflicting information. One says this, the other one says that. Not only so, one book have this version, another book have another version. The Internet also offers lots of interpretations for Christianity. All of them are correct in their own way (they are not occult, I have to clarify, but it's their conflicting views that is confusing me)
Buddhists emphasises on compassion. There is no historical truth to grapple with. So what if Prince Siddharta sat under durian tree and not bodhi tree? -
You don't know?These chronicles were written by CS lewis.Originally posted by Icemoon:Narnia and Jesus . what's the link?
The Lion Aslan is a figurative representation of Jesus, Jesus is known in the bible as the Lion of Judah.
Also when Aslan was sacrificed in place of Edmund the younger brother, so that the price for sin is met, it is alluding to Jesus who was sacrificed for us to take away our sin... (from the bible we know that since OT times, the only thing that can atone for sin is a pure and perfect sacrifice. Aslan, like Jesus was and is perfect.
Aslan was also raised again, alluding to Jesus's ressurection after 3 days. The shattering of the stone table into two also alludes to the rending of the veil when Jesus died. -
Interesting. Thanks for the enlightenment.Originally posted by breytonhartge:You don't know?These chronicles were written by CS lewis.
The Lion Aslan is a figurative representation of Jesus, Jesus is known in the bible as the Lion of Judah.
Also when Aslan was sacrificed in place of Edmund the younger brother, so that the price for sin is met, it is alluding to Jesus who was sacrificed for us to take away our sin... (from the bible we know that since OT times, the only thing that can atone for sin is a pure and perfect sacrifice. Aslan, like Jesus was and is perfect.
Aslan was also raised again, alluding to Jesus's ressurection after 3 days. The shattering of the stone table into two also alludes to the rending of the veil when Jesus died.
-
Here's the crux.... the issue is not with the witches or the spells or the scenario... the issue is with the intepretation....Originally posted by breytonhartge:You don't know?These chronicles were written by CS lewis.
The Lion Aslan is a figurative representation of Jesus, Jesus is known in the bible as the Lion of Judah.
Also when Aslan was sacrificed in place of Edmund the younger brother, so that the price for sin is met, it is alluding to Jesus who was sacrificed for us to take away our sin... (from the bible we know that since OT times, the only thing that can atone for sin is a pure and perfect sacrifice. Aslan, like Jesus was and is perfect.
Aslan was also raised again, alluding to Jesus's ressurection after 3 days. The shattering of the stone table into two also alludes to the rending of the veil when Jesus died.
Not trying to defend HP, but if I were to intepret.... I'd say HP's mother is the ultimate sacrifice, Gryffindor is the lion, nothing in the book is considered real in the real world, the only on real practical "sorcery" is divination/tea leave reading and it is being made fun of in the person of Prof Trelawney.
My point, brey, is we need to be consistent. I don't read too much into HP and neither do I read too much into Narnia. -
That's one way of looking at it....Originally posted by breytonhartge:The difference between HP and Narnia is this..
HP makes witchcraft good and it normalizes it so that it is accpeted easily by society...
Narnia, is about Jesus who died for us... and here the witch is potrayed as bad... which if you are a Christian, it should be that way.
However, it must be pointed out, in all fairness, that one point constantly mentioned in HP's books: magic is not the total answer. Time and again, in the book, love, sacrifice, as well as wisdom is featured constantly.
Unfortunately, detractors always seem to focus on the "magical" elements.
If I were to fault Narnia, then I am really offended at the Father Christmas character in the story. To me, the inclusion of this character is an insult to Christianity. In any Christmas celebration in any country, the Father Christmas character continues to dilute the true Christian message: one of sacrificial love of God.
It must also be pointed out, from the literary sense, what is allegory to Lewis:
C.S. Lewis used a very strict definition of the word 'allegory' - after all, one of his most important academic books was a study of this subject. He wrote to some Maryland fifth graders in 1954:
'I did not say to myself 'Let us represent Jesus as He really is in our world by a Lion in Narnia'; I said 'Let us suppose that there were a land like Narnia and that the Son of God, as he became a Man in our world, became a Lion there, and then imagine what would happen'.
Another point that is important is: The entire Chronicles series were not meant to be Christian literature per se, as compared to, say, Lewis' Screwtape Letters.
Are there good "magical" imagery in Narnia, of course! The magic healing portion, the bow and arrow set.....
Again, I wish to state that I am not pro HP or magic. I only ask for consistency in our judgement over such genres. -
Still, JP2 lauded HP books and films for its moral message about the eventual triumph of good over evil.Originally posted by breytonhartge:The difference between HP and Narnia is this..
HP makes witchcraft good and it normalizes it so that it is accpeted easily by society...
Narnia, is about Jesus who died for us... and here the witch is potrayed as bad... which if you are a Christian, it should be that way.