the necessity of conviction of sin
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Conviction of sin
One of the main differences between a genuine believer and a spurious convert are those words up there. Conviction of sin. Every true and bona fide conversion has passed through this highway once in their lives. Yup, you got it. No conversion is genuine unless there is no conviction of sin. It is a state wherein one realizes the blackness of sin and of his being a sinner worthy of judgment before the bar of GodÂ’s justice, one who is unable totally to do anything for his salvation and righteousness.
Anytime you see a person like that your seeing a humble man. You see a man that is crying out to God saying something like this:
Lu 18:13 "And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his chest, saying, God, be merciful to me a sinner!”
He cried out for mercy because he saw himself for who he really is: a sinner worthy of judgment. He did not say I am good enough “I am not like other men--extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.” No, he did not say that he said in words of humility: "God be merciful to me a sinner"
Words of a spiritually humble [or humbled] man isnÂ’t it? What do you think God will do to such a man?
Lu 18:14 "I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [declared righteous or saved] rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
A man under the conviction of sin sees his utter need of salvation, he sees himself lost and so he cries: "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" the Philippian jailor cries.
He saw the blackness of sin alright, he saw the imminent impending danger of his soul before the bar of God’s justice, he owned up his lost state. He humbled himself. And so he cries: ‘Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
Again words of a spiritually humble [or humbled] man. Again, what is the divine principle with regards to matters like these? “……everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
What happened next was that God opened his eyes to the righteousness of Christ, the gospel of Christ for his lack. And he got saved.
Ac 16:32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.
34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.
Conviction of sin is actually just when a man sees his utter helplessness with regards to salvation and righteousness, sees himself for who he really is; a spiritually sick man in need of a spiritual doctor Jesus Christ. Show me a man who went through this state I will show you a man who finds Christ Jesus [the remedy and medicine for his state] precious.
1Pe 1:18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers,
1Pe 1:19 ‘but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
Peter was able to described the blood of Christ as precious because he saw himself a spiritually sick man with no other remedy but the work of Christ on the cross.
Before I am one who has prayed the sinnerÂ’s prayer more than a thousand times already but I did not find the gospel precious. I always found myself backsliding. Easily discouraged when bad things happened. I still could not understand why salvation must be by faith alone. I thought I was a Christian because I have said the prayer and all that but deep within me I was still trusting in my works and not in Christ alone. I never saw my need of an atonement.
It was when I finally saw my real condition before God It was whn I saw myself spiritually lost, totally unable to mark up my righteousness and salvation that I understood and found sooooooooo precious the gospel of Christ.
To the one who has not yet understood the gospel and why salvation must be by faith alone: why donÂ’t you call on God to show you of your utter helplessness and total inability with regards to righteousness and salvation. It is God who does the work of conviction of sin.
Joh 16:8 "And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
Note: not all conviction of sin is of the same degree in every awakened sinner. Some experienced it deeply and keenly. Some experienced it for a long duration others experienced it for a very short while. -
Originally posted by Ironside:
Amen. Justification by faith & faith alone in the blood of Jesus Christ.
Conviction of sin
One of the main differences between a genuine believer and a spurious convert are those words up there. Conviction of sin. Every true and bona fide conversion has passed through this highway once in their lives. Yup, you got it. No conversion is genuine unless there is no conviction of sin. It is a state wherein one realizes the blackness of sin and of his being a sinner worthy of judgment before the bar of GodÂ’s justice, one who is unable totally to do anything for his salvation and righteousness.
Anytime you see are person like that your seeing a humble man. You see a man that is crying out to God saying something like this:
Lu 18:13 "And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his chest, saying, [b]God, be merciful to me a sinner!”
He cried out for mercy because he saw himself for who he really is: a sinner worthy of judgment. He did not say I am good enough “I am not like other men--extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.”
Words of a spiritually humble [or humbled] man isnÂ’t it? What do you think God will do to such a man?
Lu 18:14 "I tell you, this man went down to his house justified [declared righteous or saved] rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
A man under the conviction of sin sees his total inability to produce in himself perfect righteousness, sees his total inability to save himself. What he does then is to look for someone outside himself to save him. "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" the Philippian jailor cries.
He saw the blackness of sin alright, he saw the imminent impending danger of his soul before the bar of God’s justice, he saw his inability to save himself. He finally saw his need of salvation. He owned up his lost state. He humbled himself. And so he cries: ‘Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
Again words of a spiritually humble [or humbled] man. Again, what is the divine principle with regards to matters like these? “……everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
What happened next was that God opened his eyes to the righteousness of Christ, the gospel of Christ for his lack. And he got saved.
Ac 16:32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all who were in his house.
33 And he took them the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And immediately he and all his family were baptized.
34 Now when he had brought them into his house, he set food before them; and he rejoiced, having believed in God with all his household.
Conviction of sin is actually just when a man sees his utter helplessness with regards to salvation and righteousness, sees himself for who he really is; a spiritually sick man in need of a spiritual doctor Jesus Christ. Show me a man who went through this state I will show you a man who finds Christ Jesus [the remedy and medicine for his state] precious.
1Pe 1:18 knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers,
1Pe 1:19 ‘but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot.
Peter was able to described the blood of Christ as precious because he saw himself a spiritually sick man with no other remedy but the work of Christ on the cross.
Before I am one who has prayed the sinnerÂ’s prayer more than a thousand times already but I did not find the gospel precious. I always found myself backsliding. Easily discouraged when bad things happened. I still could not understand why salvation must be by faith alone. I thought I was a Christian because I have said the prayer and all that but deep within me I was still trusting in my works and not in Christ alone. I never saw my need of an atonement.
It was when I finally saw my real condition before God It was whn I saw myself spiritually lost, totally unable to mark up my righteousness and salvation that I understood and found sooooooooo precious the gospel of Christ.
To the one who has not yet understood the gospel and why salvation must be by faith alone: why donÂ’t you call on God to show you of your utter helplessness and total inability with regards to righteousness and salvation. It is God who does the work of conviction of sin.
Joh 16:8 "And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
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Then I ask the patrons here, should a Christian life be one filled with guilt due to sin?
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No.
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One cannot possibly sin and think that nothing is going to change. Guilt is necessary for repentance.
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We are justified by faith alone. The Holy Spirit will convict us of sin so that we can change for the better. Nobody is perfect until the last day when we meet Jesus. I think the Holy Spirit will help us not to sin & when we do sin.Originally posted by fallin:Then I ask the patrons here, should a Christian life be one filled with guilt due to sin? -
Personally I think there are 2 type of 'Guilt',Originally posted by SingaporeMacross:One cannot possibly sin and think that nothing is going to change. Guilt is necessary for repentance.
one that points us to the work of Christ, reminds the grace of God, hence leads to a change in mindset (ie. repentance).
the other that points us to work of men (the wrong doings), leading to self rejection/depression, hence into the cycle of guilt/sin, for only an infalliable God can help fallen men, a fallen man cannot help himself. -
So then, is guilt the agent to conviction?Originally posted by vince69:Personally I think there are 2 type of 'Guilt',
one that points us to the work of Christ, reminds the grace of God, hence leads to a change in mindset (ie. repentance).
the other that points us to work of men (the wrong doings), leading to self rejection/depression, hence into the cycle of guilt/sin, for only an infalliable God can help fallen men, a fallen man cannot help himself.
Or Guilt and Conviction is differing agent?
Cheers -
Remember Peter & the remaining ten apostles. & also remember Judas Iscariot. Very good eg.Originally posted by M©+square:So then, is guilt the agent to conviction?
Or Guilt and Conviction is differing agent?
Cheers -
So which is which. Be clear and specific.Originally posted by Repented John:Remember Peter & the remaining ten apostles. & also remember Judas Iscariot. Very good eg.
The thread starter presented it in a doctrinal stand. Let's keep to that standard. -
hmm. yeah. but what happens after conviction of sin?
do we fully depend on the power of the cross, or do we try to depend on our own strength to overcome?
shrugs, i hv a problem with porn, and i used to try to force myself to stop sinning in this area. but the problem is, the more i try to put the thoughts out of my mind, the stronger it is.
but haha turns out its the wrong thing i'm focusing on. i start to depend on works. i thought my relationship with god was affected, that god didn't love me as much now that i've sinned, and god won't bless me. and that god has abandoned me. i am not worthy.. etc etc.
but once i just keep focusing on god's love for me. the lustful thoughts just disappear, and i feel so much at peace. renewal of mind
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Sorry. Peter betrayed Jesus just like the other eleven. But Peter & the ten of them still came back to Christ but Judas went to hell.Originally posted by M©+square:So which is which. Be clear and specific.
The thread starter presented it in a doctrinal stand. Let's keep to that standard. -
A bit unfair la .. Judas did feel guilt in the end. He had no "face" to return to Jesus.Originally posted by Repented John:Sorry. Peter betrayed Jesus just like the other eleven. But Peter & the ten of them still came back to Christ but Judas went to hell. -
Yeah, brother our relationship with God is forever, that is established when one puts his faith in Christ alone for salvation. However, our fellowship with Him could be marred and interrupted everytime we refuse to yield and submit to His Holy Spirit.Originally posted by dumbdumb!:hmm. yeah. but what happens after conviction of sin?
do we fully depend on the power of the cross, or do we try to depend on our own strength to overcome?
shrugs, i hv a problem with porn, and i used to try to force myself to stop sinning in this area. but the problem is, the more i try to put the thoughts out of my mind, the stronger it is.
but haha turns out its the wrong thing i'm focusing on. i start to depend on works. i thought my relationship with god was affected, that god didn't love me as much now that i've sinned, and god won't bless me. and that god has abandoned me. i am not worthy.. etc etc.
but once i just keep focusing on god's love for me. the lustful thoughts just disappear, and i feel so much at peace. renewal of mind
Fighting sin by your own strength would ultimately result in burn outs. We were saved by grace and so we must walk the Christian life with grace and in grace also. Our entire Christian lives here must be lived in dependence of that grace if we should experience victory.
"The just shall live by faith." This verse has been used to prove justification by faith and rightly so but it also proves sanctification by relying on grace.
One of the errors that has crept into Christianity [though not an essential error] is that justification is by grace but sanctification is by works, by our own strivings. The Bible however does not teach so.
Paul so clearly taught this:
Ga 3:2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Ga 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Why did the Galatian Christians stumbled and faltered and failed to some degree in their Christian walk? It was because they relied on their works in sanctification.
The condition that must be fulfilled: Walk in the Spirit
The PROMISE and consequence of fulfilling that condition: and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Once we rely on the Spirit we experience verse 22-23:
Ga 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. -
This is destructive guilt then not conviction. I believe Jesus is fair to everyone altho He did say woe to the man who betrayed Him. But i wonder was Judas condemned already to hell? What do you think?Originally posted by Icemoon:A bit unfair la .. Judas did feel guilt in the end. He had no "face" to return to Jesus. -
Originally posted by Ironside:
In Habakuk, the verse the just shall live by faith in the context is actually meaning when there is no harvest, no food, no money, no health, no wealth etc etc, will we still live by faith that God will provide? Am i correct? Pls correct me if i am wrong.
Yeah, brother our relationship with God is forever, that is established when one puts his faith in Christ alone for salvation. However, our fellowship with Him could be marred and interrupted everytime we refuse to yield and submit to His Holy Spirit.
Fighting sin by your own strength would ultimately result in burn outs. We were saved by grace and so we must walk the Christian life with grace and in grace also. Our entire Christian lives here must be lived in dependence of that grace if we should experience victory.
"The just shall live by faith." This verse has been used to prove justification by faith and rightly so but it also proves sanctification by relying on grace.
One of the errors that has crept into Christianity [though not an essential error] is that justification is by grace but sanctification is by works, by our own strivings. The Bible however does not teach so.
Paul so clearly taught this:
Ga 3:2 This only I want to learn from you: [b]Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Ga 5:16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Why did the Galatian Christians stumbled and faltered and failed to some degree in their Christian walk? It was because they relied on their works in sanctification.
The condition that must be fulfilled: Walk in the Spirit
The PROMISE and consequence of fulfilling that condition: and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Once we rely on the Spirit we experience verse 22-23:
Ga 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control.
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He was .. if God has foreknowledge.Originally posted by Repented John:This is destructive guilt then not conviction. I believe Jesus is fair to everyone altho He did say woe to the man who betrayed Him. But i wonder was Judas condemned already to hell? What do you think? -
But I think Jesus tried to warn him. But if Jesus wasnt betrayed, then how?Originally posted by Icemoon:He was .. if God has foreknowledge. -
I think we shouldnt go into guilt complexes. Pastor Prince preached a very good message last week. There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. When we do sin, get on with life. Nobody is perfect. Dont fall under the devil's trap of condemnation. I try to remind myself. He said condemnation leads to fear then to stress. & stress leads to all sorts of symptoms.
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& this applies only to those who really accepted Christ Jesus already. & we wont just lose our salvation bcos of the blood of Jesus. It cleanses every sin. He loves us so much that He gave His life for us. How much more will He freely give us all things? If God be for us, who can be against us?Originally posted by Repented John:I think we shouldnt go into guilt complexes. Pastor Prince preached a very good message last week. There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus. When we do sin, get on with life. Nobody is perfect. Dont fall under the devil's trap of condemnation. I try to remind myself. He said condemnation leads to fear then to stress. & stress leads to all sorts of symptoms. -
fear leads to hate .. hate leads to suffering. did I miss anything out?Originally posted by Repented John:I try to remind myself. He said condemnation leads to fear then to stress. & stress leads to all sorts of symptoms.
and how come you attending CHC now? -
Originally posted by Icemoon:fear leads to hate .. hate leads to suffering. did I miss anything out?
and how come you attending CHC now? -
I used to think this was great until I realized ..Originally posted by Repented John:He loves us so much that He gave His life for us. How much more will He freely give us all things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
1. crucification only mah. at least not the chinese ling2 chi2 where they cut off your flesh one by one.
2. countless people have given up their life since time immemorial .. for friends .. for country .. you name it.
3. He was resurrected and restored to His former glorious state. I think Lord Dizhang still in hell cleansing the evil dead (ok .. watched too much MDAV III) -
Sorry, you got mixed up. Pastor Prince NCC not CHC!Originally posted by Icemoon:fear leads to hate .. hate leads to suffering. did I miss anything out?
and how come you attending CHC now?
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1. The Man who died is God's Son. Not just a simple crucifixion of a robber or patriot.Originally posted by Icemoon:I used to think this was great until I realized ..
1. crucification only mah. at least not the chinese ling2 chi2 where they cut off your flesh one by one.
2. countless people have given up their life since time immemorial .. for friends .. for country .. you name it.
3. He was resurrected and restored to His former glorious state. I think Lord Dizhang still in hell cleansing the evil dead (ok .. watched too much MDAV III)
2. Countless people also gave up their lives for Christ Jesus. This is the greatest sacrifice one can give for believing in Christ. They will be amply rewarded.
3. I don't care about Lord Dizhang or hell. I will also be resurrected. & similarly other Christians who put their faith in Christ's blood alone. He now has a body with scars also you know. He is the Lamb that was slain & came back to life for our justification. Now He is the Lion of Judah. He is coming again.