How do you know if its a Miracle & not Coincidence???
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....no need la. I already don't agree liaoOriginally posted by Icemoon:lol .. those in the new-age charismatic churches wun agree with you.
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I quit new age already lah. I repented you know.Originally posted by Icemoon:lol .. those in the new-age charismatic churches wun agree with you. -
Why? I was amening to Ironside theology. You mean you are also new age?Originally posted by M©+square:....no need la. I already don't agree liao -
why?Originally posted by Repented John:I quit new age already lah. I repented you know. -
I was refering to 'going thru sufferings a miracle'Originally posted by Repented John:Why? I was amening to Ironside theology. You mean you are also new age?
Cheers -
New age is fake Christianity. This is the apostate church Paul talked about.Originally posted by Ito_^:why? -
Why not? If one can withstand suffering as a Christian, don't you think it's a miracle or grace given by God?Originally posted by M©+square:I was refering to 'going thru sufferings a miracle'
Cheers -
So is it's Grace given by God or is it Miracle given by God?Originally posted by Repented John:Why not? If one can withstand suffering as a Christian, don't you think it's a miracle or grace given by God?
Which one again?
Tell you what, let me give you this case.
If a non Christian suffers from leukemia, he managed to fight the disease and become whole(healed).
1)Is it a Miracle?
2)Is it by God?
3)Is it Grace?
When a Christian withstands sufferings allowed by God? or from the world or from spiritual attacks.
1)Is it miracle?
2)Is it Grace?
3)Is it by God?
Be specific and clear. Pls.
Cheers -
shrugs. i believe God reigns over everything in this world.
thus, nothing is a coincidence. -
I cannot answer for the non Christian but I believe God is behind every good miracle. Without grace, there will be no miracle.Originally posted by M©+square:So is it's Grace given by God or is it Miracle given by God?
Which one again?
Tell you what, let me give you this case.
If a non Christian suffers from leukemia, he managed to fight the disease and become whole(healed).
1)Is it a Miracle?
2)Is it by God?
3)Is it Grace?
When a Christian withstands sufferings allowed by God? or from the world or from spiritual attacks.
1)Is it miracle?
2)Is it Grace?
3)Is it by God?
Be specific and clear. Pls.
Cheers
As a Christian, it is definitely a grace given miracle by God. You see sufferings come in the form of financial, physical, mental or emotional etc hardships. So it takes a miracle right to get out of it & pass safely thru? Like the Red Sea opening & so many miracles of old etc. -
Do you think that even when men wakes up and being able to still see the sunrise is considered a miracle?Originally posted by Repented John:I cannot answer for the non Christian but I believe God is behind every good miracle. Without grace, there will be no miracle.
As a Christian, it is definitely a grace given miracle by God. You see sufferings come in the form of financial, physical, mental or emotional etc hardships. So it takes a miracle right to get out of it & pass safely thru? Like the Red Sea opening & so many miracles of old etc.
Cheers -
lol .. so which part is the miracle?Originally posted by M©+square:Do you think that even when men wakes up and being able to still see the sunrise is considered a miracle?
Cheers
The fact that the sun continues to rise OR the fact he still can see? -
Tsk......you always spoiler one leh!Originally posted by Icemoon:lol .. so which part is the miracle?
The fact that the sun continues to rise OR the fact he still can see?
Cheers -
MC,Originally posted by M©+square:Do you think that even when men wakes up and being able to still see the sunrise is considered a miracle?
Cheers
which view do you subscribe then,
1) its a blessing to be alive every morning?
2) its normal daily routine that is expected?
personally, I will take (1), giving thanks to Him for all things, including the blessing of being alive.
btw, sunrise in the morning is not a miracle, God promised this in his covenant (after the flood),
Gen8:22 (NKJV)
While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and winter and summer, and day and night, shall not cease. -
Bless you Vince.Originally posted by vince69:MC,
which view do you subscribe then,
1) its a blessing to be alive every morning?
2) its normal daily routine that is expected?
personally, I will take (1), giving thanks to Him for all things, including the blessing of being alive.
btw, sunrise in the morning is not a miracle, God promised this in his covenant (after the flood),
Gen8:22 (NKJV)
While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, and cold and heat, and winter and summer, and day and night, shall not cease.
You've got my drift.(knowingly or unintentionally)
It is indeed a Blessing to be alive and being able to still see the promise of God(sunrise) coming to pass.
Highlighted point is the gist.
What i'm saying is. Not everything are Miracles - if not, it no longer holds as 'miracle', it has become commonthing in men.
:::
1a) It is a blessing to be alive everyday. (expression of 'miracle')
1b) It is miracle how Sun rises and sets. (Fact, miracle)
2a) It can be a feeling or outburst of expression. Purely expression.
2b) It can be true encounter/experience.
3a) Miracles can happen to non believers
3b) Believers attribute miracles to the work/moving hand of God
St. Thomas says "praeter" (beyond), not "contra" (against).
The order of creation is due to the will of God.
A miracle is not contrary to the will of God,
but it is a special extraordinary exercise of the will of God.
What are Miracles:
Creation of Mankind - Gen 1:26-28
The Burning Bush - Exodus 3
The Ten plagues in Egypt - Exodus 7:14-11:10
Earthquake that swallows Korah and his fellow rebels - Num 16
Fire from heaven consumes Elijah's sacrifice - 1 Kings 18:16-40
Virginal conception of Jesus - NT
Christ Death and Resurrection - NT
My version of what are Miracles:
God knows the number of hair on your scalp
He knows what you're thinking, your thoughts
Each creations' design and purpose on earth (structurally facsinating)
The unfailing LOVE Of GOD.
Cheers -
I get what you mean. But maybe my expression of miracle & your expression of miracle is different. I don't go into detailed analysis bcos maybe not smart enough or didn't analyse much. I simply treat every day as a miracle.Originally posted by M©+square:Bless you Vince.
You've got my drift.(knowingly or unintentionally)
It is indeed a Blessing to be alive and being able to still see the promise of God(sunrise) coming to pass.
Highlighted point is the gist.
What i'm saying is. Not everything are Miracles - if not, it no longer holds as 'miracle', it has become commonthing in men.
:::
1a) It is a blessing to be alive everyday. (expression of 'miracle')
1b) It is miracle how Sun rises and sets. (Fact, miracle)
2a) It can be a feeling or outburst of expression. Purely expression.
2b) It can be true encounter/experience.
3a) Miracles can happen to non believers
3b) Believers attribute miracles to the work/moving hand of God
St. Thomas says "praeter" (beyond), not "contra" (against).
The order of creation is due to the will of God.
A miracle is not contrary to the will of God,
but it is a special extraordinary exercise of the will of God.
What are Miracles:
Creation of Mankind - Gen 1:26-28
The Burning Bush - Exodus 3
The Ten plagues in Egypt - Exodus 7:14-11:10
Earthquake that swallows Korah and his fellow rebels - Num 16
Fire from heaven consumes Elijah's sacrifice - 1 Kings 18:16-40
Virginal conception of Jesus - NT
Christ Death and Resurrection - NT
My version of what are Miracles:
God knows the number of hair on your scalp
He knows what you're thinking, your thoughts
Each creations' design and purpose on earth (structurally facsinating)
The unfailing LOVE Of GOD.
Cheers -
Then let it be a life that will show forth great gratitude and carefully living your life solely for God.Originally posted by Repented John:I get what you mean. But maybe my expression of miracle & your expression of miracle is different. I don't go into detailed analysis bcos maybe not smart enough or didn't analyse much. I simply treat every day as a miracle.
My parallel will be 'giving thanks for the food you partake'
To another person partaking food is a miracle, 'saying Grace'(don't know who come out with these term). Somewhere along the road, 'Thanksgiving of Food' no longer has it's significance and the importance of Food before that person is a common thing before him.
I hope your expression of Miracle will bring forth Fruits and bless others.
Cheers -
He allows the bad things to occur. yes.Originally posted by dragg:including the bad things? -
this is the inevitable conclusion of God's sovereignity.Originally posted by NT2:He allows the bad things to occur. yes. -
jus my 2 cents worth ...
It is true that things, which are unusual and difficult to explain, do sometimes happen during religious events - but not just for Christians. Hindus, Muslims, Taoists, etc. all claim that their God or gods sometimes perform miracles. Christianity certainly does not have a monopoly on miracles. So, if miracles performed in God's name prove the existence of the Christian God, then miracles performed in the name of numerous other gods must likewise prove that they too exist.